Chelsea have had 12 managers in 13 years... is it any wonder they have no philosophy?

 

The word is that there will be no wholesale clear-out of playing staff at Chelsea next season. Too expensive and, now without European football, too fraught with danger. 

 

The season gone with FA Cup defeat at Everton, how many on Antonio Conte's wish list will see Stamford Bridge as a suitable destination now?

So 'philosophy' is the new buzz-word. That's what the club needs, apparently. A recognisable style, a set of ideas and principles. 

 

The sort of regime that Mauricio Pochettino has installed at Tottenham. Chelsea would no doubt like Pochettino to work for them, too, except the Tottenham manager would surely run a mile if he got the call. Why risk bringing a soaring career to a shuddering halt with Chelsea's short-termism?

As managers go, the winner of the club's last league championship, the winner of its only Champions League title and the winner of its last European trophy, all did not make it to the end of the year. Conte will be confirmed as the 12th manager of Roman Abramovich's 13 years in charge.

 

What is it about this constant turmoil, this cavalcade of Portuguese pragmatists, clubbable mates of the owner, Brazilians, Italians, local favourites, local bogeymen and old flames that has failed to produce the coherent clear identity Chelsea so desire? What is it about bowing to dressing-room mutinies, or ditching exemplary professionals such as Frank Lampard and Petr Cech, that fails to produce the character to maintain success? Why can't the youth simply learn from the standards set by Eden Hazard, say, or Diego Costa?

 

Conte will be given time, we hear, and that is only fair, but we know what Chelsea time entails. It is one season, plus a bit, at best. 

Avram Grant, Felipe Scolari, Andre Villas-Boas and Roberto Di Matteo did not even get that. Carlo Ancelotti won the Double and was dumped a year later, for finishing second.

 

Abramovich has been at the club for well over a decade now, plenty of time for a philosophy to take hold. Michael Emenalo has been on the staff since 2007, as head scout and then technical director, with recruitment part of his remit. If Chelsea's team is a mismatch of personalities and styles, a loose collection of individuals, rather than a team, whose fault is that?

 

Chelsea's last 11 signings have been Asmir Begovic, Baba Rahman, Pedro, Papy Djilobodji, Michael Hector, Marco Amelia, Matt Miazga, Kenedy, Radamel Falcao, Alexandre Pato and Danilo Pantic. It is hard to think of a team that has bought as ineffectually in the last year.

 

There is no philosophy because that is not the way the club works. Chelsea are a collection of quick fixes, previously allied to vast injections of transfer funds, or a new coach. 

 

Real Madrid are the same. If the money thrown at the project is great enough, this may be no obstacle to success in football — but it is never going to shape a club in the manner of Ajax, Barcelona, or even Arsenal.

 

Chelsea finished sixth in 2012, do not forget, but a Champions League victory from nowhere obscured the failure. If every season is a roll of the dice, however, there is always a chance one throw will come up snake eyes. Yet Chelsea now brief and behave as if stability and the intellectual rigour of a coherent, long-term strategy is what they have sought all along.

 

It is quite laughable, particularly the seeming implication that only successive managers have denied them this route. Yes, those pesky managers. If only they hadn't kept getting themselves sacked all the time. What a stable, sensible, well-adjusted club Abramovich could have built by now.

 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3490640/Chelsea-12-managers-13-years-wonder-no-philosophy.html

A brilliant article from Samuel but not the first that has pointed out that we lack an identity/philosophy and plenty of people on here have been banging the drum.

 

Hopefully Roman sees this and makes the changes needed starting from the top down.

Don't fully agree with Samuel.

What have arsenal achieved with their identity? High ticket prices, 10 years of failure and fans wanting wenger out.

City? They have no identity.

Liverpool? - 1 carling cup in 10 years

Utd? - After fergie they have won nothing and LVG's philosophy.

I'm sorry but I wouldn't swap our last 12 years for any of those clubs and their present and future looks no more prosperous than ours.

Don't fully agree with Samuel.

What have arsenal achieved with their identity? High ticket prices, 10 years of failure and fans wanting wenger out.

City? They have no identity.

Liverpool? - 1 carling cup in 10 years

Utd? - After fergie they have won nothing and LVG's philosophy.

I'm sorry but I wouldn't swap our last 12 years for any of those clubs and their present and future looks no more prosperous than ours.

 

So you think we have an identity? A philosophy?

 

Your's appears to be about living in the past and unfortunately that's trademarked by Liverpool.

 

Let's look at other clubs then. West Ham, Spurs, Southampton - all committed to an overarching philosophy, all better than us right now.

 

Even City who you say have no identity have a recognisable style of play on the pitch. Now for me it's flawed and one-dimensional, but it's there and it's set-up nicely for Guardiola to come in and take it to the next level. 

 

We don't have that and to say that our future looks prosperous is so misguided. Your future seems to entail talking about how we used to be good and then Jose ruined it. 

 

We can be good but we have to change the way we conduct business. We have to be about more than instant, pre-packaged success and develop a uniquely Chelsea way of playing on the pitch and developing and acquiring players off it. That is how you get sustainable success these days. 

Ay I agree with KanaKai for once.

 

Would be nice to have an 'identity' but our current identity of winning stuff and f**king with arsenal is fine.

 

The management circus is annoying but there aren't many of them I was that sad to see the back of. If Conte is announced then I hope we back him til his contract ends regardless of where the club finishes the season.

 

Its difficult to keep a manager long as even with bloody JM people get restless very quickly when its not going perfectly.

 

And we do have a style of play, these current guys just aren't that good at it. I've heard 'Chelsea like performance' muttered a lot. But then again a ton of people complain about a stereotypical chelsea performance.

 

Its go a goal or two up then kill the game. People didn't like it.

Edited March 14, 20169 yr by Stim

Where was this article when we were winning titles? Kick a man when he is down. Rubbish

agreed, arsenal city and united are not being run that brilliantly, its just another load of anti chelsea

I wouldnt wipe my arse with the Daily fail!

Ay I agree with KanaKai for once.

 

Would be nice to have an 'identity' but our current identity of winning stuff and f**king with arsenal is fine.

 

The management circus is annoying but there aren't many of them I was that sad to see the back of. If Conte is announced then I hope we back him til his contract ends regardless of where the club finishes the season.

 

Its difficult to keep a manager long as even with bloody JM people get restless very quickly when its not going perfectly.

 

And we do have a style of play, these current guys just aren't that good at it. I've heard 'Chelsea like performance' muttered a lot. But then again a ton of people complain about a stereotypical chelsea performance.

 

Its go a goal or two up then kill the game. People didn't like it.

 

It would be nice to have an identity? Come on, that's the bare minimum a club should have isn't it? This is why other fans throw plastic at us isn't it?

 

What Chelsea used to be on the pitch was a combination of power and grace - a rock-solid spine teamed with skill and pace. The resilience to sit-back and defend a lead (which people wrongly called parking the bus) with the ability to destroy teams on the front foot. 

 

What Jose developed was the ultimate style of this in my opinion. First you stop your opponent from scoring, because if they can't score they can't win. Then you have impeccable movement when you break and if you get that goal you revert to stopping them.

 

Some people might not like that but we had a generation of truly great players who were made in that mould and it served us pretty well, for those who are purely concerned with our trophy haul over the last 12 years.

 

The thing is we need to renew those principles or advance them. That's the job not just of Conte but the whole club and it needs to be a concerted effort. Samuel is absolutely right in what he says that Roman's style of ownership has meant it's hard for the actual football talent to do that. He needs to change and now is as good a time as any.

Don't fully agree with Samuel.

What have arsenal achieved with their identity? High ticket prices, 10 years of failure and fans wanting wenger out.

City? They have no identity.

Liverpool? - 1 carling cup in 10 years

Utd? - After fergie they have won nothing and LVG's philosophy.

I'm sorry but I wouldn't swap our last 12 years for any of those clubs and their present and future looks no more prosperous than ours.

Talking about now and the future

Liverpool have reached a carling cup final lost of pens. Still got top 4 hopes and in Europa League. Klopp will have all summer to build and work with his own squad. I would be very excited as a Liverpool fan.

Spurs are in the title hunt, have a great manager in place and quality squad.

City have a top squad with an underachieving manager in the league. They will only add to the playing staff and with Pep will be suprised if they don't win the league.

Utd have a big squad. I think there biggest weakness is the manager. If Mourinho took over as manager in January they would of had a good chance to win the league. If Mourinho takes over in the summer they will be in the hunt for all the trophies.

Arsenal are the same old. Wenger won't spend money even though there's 100-150m kitty sat there.

Tbh I don't care about philosophy. But I think Arsenal look at Utd and how they have there lost there's from the Fergie years and that's they there scared to make changes.

Would I take 12 managers and 4 league titles or 1 manager and none.

Arsenal are the same old. Wenger won't spend money even though there's 100-150m kitty sat there.

 

 

And Arsenal are always the easy club to point to where one man's philosophy has ruined them, but there is a middle ground and that's surely what we should be aiming for.

 

Samuel absolutely nails it when he says

 

There is no philosophy because that is not the way the club works. Chelsea are a collection of quick fixes, previously allied to vast injections of transfer funds, or a new coach. 

 

 

That's a criticism yet some here would take it as a badge of honour.

So you think we have an identity? A philosophy?

Your's appears to be about living in the past and unfortunately that's trademarked by Liverpool.

Let's look at other clubs then. West Ham, Spurs, Southampton - all committed to an overarching philosophy, all better than us right now.

Even City who you say have no identity have a recognisable style of play on the pitch. Now for me it's flawed and one-dimensional, but it's there and it's set-up nicely for Guardiola to come in and take it to the next level.

We don't have that and to say that our future looks prosperous is so misguided. Your future seems to entail talking about how we used to be good and then Jose ruined it.

We can be good but we have to change the way we conduct business. We have to be about more than instant, pre-packaged success and develop a uniquely Chelsea way of playing on the pitch and developing and acquiring players off it. That is how you get sustainable success these days.

No with an interim I don't think we do.

We has an identity under Jose but it went stale and became frustrating this season.

Bottom line is there is no point having a philosophy if you achieve nothing with it.

City's style of play has seen the best squad in the league go trophyless for 2 years. Can't see them winning Europe.

Actually we do have an identity. It's generally sacking managers who don't win. Some have been right some have been wrong.

Our board are not perfect I know but look at every big prem club. Philosophy or no philosophy every fan don't have a long list of good things to say about their board.

You don't get trophies for having a philosophy and our success while arsenals and lvgs lack of is testament to that

No with an interim I don't think we do.

We has an identity under Jose but it went stale and became frustrating this season.

Bottom line is there is no point having a philosophy if you achieve nothing with it.

City's style of play has seen the best squad in the league go trophyless for 2 years. Can't see them winning Europe.

Actually we do have an identity. It's generally sacking managers who don't win. Some have been right some have been wrong.

Our board are not perfect I know but look at every big prem club. Philosophy or no philosophy every fan don't have a long list of good things to say about their board.

You don't get trophies for having a philosophy and our success while arsenals and lvgs lack of is testament to that

 

Yet City will acquire a great coach next year who fits their philosophy and will take them to the next level in all likelihood. United are a club stuck between idealism and pragmatism and need to develop a new philosophy are Fergie was there for so long, but we always knew that would happen. The same will happen at Arsenal.

 

You seem to think everything will be dandy because it's been dandy in the past but you don't seem to even know the real reasons why our success arrived and why it's not a guarantee in the future. It's why I think your name is absolutely perfect in so many ways.

 

You seem quite happy simply to blame everything on Jose or say how other clubs are just as badly off. You've got supporters on here who are articulately (in most cases) analysing the issues this club faces and looking at how we move forward yet I've not seen you once present a scenario for how we move forward. You either focus on the past or say 'things will be ok' and if you truly believe that then I don't know what else there is for you to add. Sorry for being harsh. I'm frustrated with the club and to see people ok with the status quo just beggars belief.

And Arsenal are always the easy club to point to where one man's philosophy has ruined them, but there is a middle ground and that's surely what we should be aiming for.

 

Samuel absolutely nails it when he says

 

There is no philosophy because that is not the way the club works. Chelsea are a collection of quick fixes, previously allied to vast injections of transfer funds, or a new coach. 

 

 

That's a criticism yet some here would take it as a badge of honour.

Also depends the manager and what was happening behind the scenes. For Scolari and AVB I think they was the right sackings. Grant never got sacked and was Interim. Carlo and Jose twice was harsh for me.

I wouldn't say Arsenals philosophy has ruined them, just Wenger has held them back and the FA cup win has papered over the cracks. Tbh I don't really mind as I hate Arsenal.

Yet City will acquire a great coach next year who fits their philosophy and will take them to the next level in all likelihood. United are a club stuck between idealism and pragmatism and need to develop a new philosophy are Fergie was there for so long, but we always knew that would happen. The same will happen at Arsenal.

 

You seem to think everything will be dandy because it's been dandy in the past but you don't seem to even know the real reasons why our success arrived and why it's not a guarantee in the future. It's why I think your name is absolutely perfect in so many ways.

 

You seem quite happy simply to blame everything on Jose or say how other clubs are just as badly off. You've got supporters on here who are articulately (in most cases) analysing the issues this club faces and looking at how we move forward yet I've not seen you once present a scenario for how we move forward. You either focus on the past or say 'things will be ok' and if you truly believe that then I don't know what else there is for you to add. Sorry for being harsh. I'm frustrated with the club and to see people ok with the status quo just beggars belief.

That's the problem in the past the solution was Cech, Terry, Lampard, Ballack, Cole and Drogba. Any team with a spin of those players wins trophies.

Talking about now and the future

Liverpool have reached a carling cup final lost of pens. Still got top 4 hopes and in Europa League. Klopp will have all summer to build and work with his own squad. I would be very excited as a Liverpool fan.

Spurs are in the title hunt, have a great manager in place and quality squad.

City have a top squad with an underachieving manager in the league. They will only add to the playing staff and with Pep will be suprised if they don't win the league.

Utd have a big squad. I think there biggest weakness is the manager. If Mourinho took over as manager in January they would of had a good chance to win the league. If Mourinho takes over in the summer they will be in the hunt for all the trophies.

Arsenal are the same old. Wenger won't spend money even though there's 100-150m kitty sat there.

Tbh I don't care about philosophy. But I think Arsenal look at Utd and how they have there lost there's from the Fergie years and that's they there scared to make changes.

Would I take 12 managers and 4 league titles or 1 manager and none.

Liverpool are excited every year - they will not get top 4 imo and if they do, going by form it will be at the expense of City, the one you are laying positives upon. The City who disrespected pellergrini by announcing pep half way through the season.

Funny you say Spurs have a great squad. It was built by a manager who wasn't given major funds by levy, with a lower net spend (I know you like net spend) than Jose. He didn't complain and just needed youth and got on with his job.

Utd have a big squad but the quality is bad. Man for man they are no better than us. Jose is not a god. If he was, he wouldn't need a transfer kitty of 200m just to avoid Chelsea lying in 16th after 16 games.

The funny thing is spurs are taking advantage over the usual big 5 for messing up, all whose philosophies have not shown any success.

You're just a negative fan. Fair enough we are not great but you're finding positives for every other club as if they are head and shoulders above us.

Liverpool are excited every year - they will not get top 4 imo and if they do, going by form it will be at the expense of City, the one you are laying positives upon. The City who disrespected pellergrini by announcing pep half way through the season.

Funny you say Spurs have a great squad. It was built by a manager who wasn't given major funds by levy, with a lower net spend (I know you like net spend) than Jose. He didn't complain and just needed youth and got on with his job.

Utd have a big squad but the quality is bad. Man for man they are no better than us. Jose is not a god. If he was, he wouldn't need a transfer kitty of 200m just to avoid Chelsea lying in 16th after 16 games.

The funny thing is spurs are taking advantage over the usual big 5 for messing up, all whose philosophies have not shown any success.

You're just a negative fan. Fair enough we are not great but you're finding positives for every other club as if they are head and shoulders above us.

It don't take long for the real you to come out. I don't mind saying I am negative but looking at positives in other clubs is no bad thing and just not being biased. I am looking for positives for every club going towards the future, your just looking for negatives.

Liverpool have a good future ahead, there's nothing to say otherwise is there.

Regarding Spurs they improved there squad, how many times does that have to be said. How much youth is the Spurs manager using? They brought Alli by the way.

City was already playing terrible in the league before the Pep announcement.

It's ok to talk about net spend for Spurs but not Chelsea? Getting confusing now.

Personally I think Utd have quite a good squad, I honestly think the manager is useless and Mourinho is that good of a manager he could of won the league with Utd if he took over in January.

Utd will only get better.

As usual your points are useless.

Yet City will acquire a great coach next year who fits their philosophy and will take them to the next level in all likelihood. United are a club stuck between idealism and pragmatism and need to develop a new philosophy are Fergie was there for so long, but we always knew that would happen. The same will happen at Arsenal.

 

You seem to think everything will be dandy because it's been dandy in the past but you don't seem to even know the real reasons why our success arrived and why it's not a guarantee in the future. It's why I think your name is absolutely perfect in so many ways.

 

You seem quite happy simply to blame everything on Jose or say how other clubs are just as badly off. You've got supporters on here who are articulately (in most cases) analysing the issues this club faces and looking at how we move forward yet I've not seen you once present a scenario for how we move forward. You either focus on the past or say 'things will be ok' and if you truly believe that then I don't know what else there is for you to add. Sorry for being harsh. I'm frustrated with the club and to see people ok with the status quo just beggars belief.

I'm tired of hearing about Philosophy. It's a results business.

 

At the end of the day next season, it's fair to say that the Bayern/Barca will win the CL.

 

As for the league, only one team can win it. Lets say that team is CIty next season. The criticism for Utd, Arsenal, Pool and Chelsea from the media will vast as one of those will also miss out on top 4. There are too many big clubs in the Prem fighting for one trophy which is the basis of a successful season and ambitious board. It's happening now and will happen every year.

 

We are lucky enough to have seen so much success with Romans trigger approach and I am grateful to have seen that. We'll have good seasons and we'll have not so good seasons.or in this one off case, a terrible season. Thats football, just accept it.

For Christ sake, I am not biased! I never said we would stroll the league next season or that we don't need to improve.

 

What I'm saying is that you are finding positives for every single rival as if they are a level above us. They are really not. Their futures look no more promising than ours either. We don't even know whats going to happen.

 

I'm comfortable knowing that:

 

We have Conte on the way

Have quality assets on the books despite obvious poor form e.g Hazard, Teebo, Costa, Cesc, Willian, Zouma, Dave

New stadium,

Established big club

London to attact big players

Ambitious owner.

 

Those are reasons why I am not panicking after one freak season. I don't expect us to lift trophies every year but I expect us to challenge for something and we have done that nearly every time under Roman.

 

You say Spurs improved their squad, but they would laugh at you if you saw the excuses you are using for Jose bringing up net spend when theirs is far lower. They bought Ali from MK Dons yes. A youthful English player from the lower leagues who like Wimmer, Mason, etc have been given a chance. They are showing that you don't need to use a net spend excuse to excuse a manager from failing

 

I'm bringing up net spend to point out how using it for your defense of Jose was pathetic. 

 

That Utd squad is terrible, there is a reason why DDG has won player of the year 3 years running.

Edited March 14, 20169 yr by KonaKai Blue

Identity, character, philosophy. All bullsh*t buzz words with no meaning at all.

I'm tired of hearing about Philosophy. It's a results business.

 

At the end of the day next season, it's fair to say that the Bayern/Barca will win the CL.

 

 

I'm sorry if you take offence at this, but that's such a simplistic way of thinking. You honestly don't think these things are linked? A solid, workable philosophy that you're committed to is often key to getting results. That's not just football, but any business. You need everyone working together, pulling in the same direction. Even if someone's got no experience of the working world, a quick look at the top companies would hint at that wouldn't it?

 

As for the league, only one team can win it. Lets say that team is CIty next season. The criticism for Utd, Arsenal, Pool and Chelsea from the media will vast as one of those will also miss out on top 4. There are too many big clubs in the Prem fighting for one trophy which is the basis of a successful season and ambitious board. It's happening now and will happen every year.

 

 

I disagree with that. You can be showing marked improvements working towards an overall goal without expecting immediate success. Again, not just true in football but in all businesses.

 

 

We are lucky enough to have seen so much success with Romans trigger approach and I am grateful to have seen that. We'll have good seasons and we'll have not so good seasons.or in this one off case, a terrible season. Thats football, just accept it.

 

Actually a lot of success was in spite of Roman. He tried to change with Scolari and AVB but ultimately lost patience and went back to those underlying principles instilled in the squad by Jose. Those principles were embodied in players like Lamps, JT, Cech etc. and that drove the success. Look at 2012 for clear evidence of this, 5 years after Jose was sacked (Carlo also deserves a lot of credit but he too built on those foundations).

 

Identity, character, philosophy. All bullsh*t buzz words with no meaning at all.

 

They all have meaning, especially character. I've yet to meet a successful person for whom character was a 'bullsh*t buzz word'.

 

But I do understand exactly where you're coming from and how 'corporate newspeak' is intolerable. I just don't think this is a case of it.

Edited March 14, 20169 yr by ShedEnder91

For Christ sake, I am not biased! I never said we would stroll the league next season or that we don't need to improve.

 

What I'm saying is that you are finding positives for every single rival as if they are a level above us. They are really not. Their futures look no more promising than ours either. We don't even know whats going to happen.

 

I'm comfortable knowing that:

 

We have Conte on the way

Have quality assets on the books despite obvious poor form e.g Hazard, Teebo, Costa, Cesc, Willian, Zouma, Dave

New stadium,

Established big club

London to attact big players

Ambitious owner.

 

Those are reasons why I am not panicking after one freak season. I don't expect us to lift trophies every year but I expect us to challenge for something and we have done that nearly every time under Roman.

 

You say Spurs improved their squad, but they would laugh at you if you saw the excuses you are using for Jose bringing up net spend when theirs is far lower. They bought Ali from MK Dons yes. A youthful English player from the lower leagues who like Wimmer, Mason, etc have been given a chance. They are showing that you don't need to use a net spend excuse to excuse a manager from failing

 

I'm bringing up net spend to point out how using it for your defense of Jose was pathetic. 

 

That Utd squad is terrible, there is a reason why DDG has won player of the year 3 years running.

That could be more because there defence is terrible and have had s*** load of injuries. Still think a good manager will do better with a squad of Martial, Mata, Carrick, Depay, Smalling, De Gea, Valencia, Herrera, Lingard, Shaw, Rojo, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Blind, Young, Darmian, Jones, Fellani , Rooney, Januzaj

Mason plays in the Europa. Wimmer has only been playing since Vertonghen is injured.

That could be more because there defence is terrible and have had s*** load of injuries. Still think a good manager will do better with a squad of Martial, Mata, Carrick, Depay, Smalling, De Gea, Valencia, Herrera, Lingard, Shaw, Rojo, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Blind, Young, Darmian, Jones, Fellani , Rooney, Januzaj

Mason plays in the Europa. Wimmer has only been playing since Vertonghen is injured.

 

 

That's it Ernie, I'm done with debating with you lol. The fact you named the whole Utd squad as if they are great is the final straw. I mean...

 

Old Carrick?

Depay???

Old Bastien??

One trick pony Vaencia?

Rojo?

Schniederlin?

Fellani?

Young?

Jones?

Januzaj?

ati

hahahhahah! They are either old or past it and need to be replaced. To replace that many and for Utd to dominate Manchester at the very least is going to be extremely hard.  Keep overrating average rivals and showing no faith in Chelsea.

 

Those are reasons why I am not panicking after one freak season. I don't expect us to lift trophies every year but I expect us to challenge for something and we have done that nearly every time under Roman.

 

And this is the fundamental point of disagreement I think. 

 

You think this is a freak season and others see this as the inevitable consequence of years of bad practices.

 

Your's is easy to write off but some will argue it's superficial or simplistic and could lead to further deterioration. The opposite argument is much tougher to rectify but if done properly can yield huge results.

 

As someone who usually abhors hard work I'm surprised I'm arguing for the latter because the former seems sooooo much easier. But I love this club and think those at the top have made some fundamental mistakes and unfortunately gone a long way to ripping the soul out of this club. They've made mistakes before and we actually stopped them (Battersea, 2011, CPO etc.) so there's evidence of them being fallible. It's not negative or anti-Chelsea to question the owner just because he put a lot of his money into the club. Money doesn't solve everything and both Roman and some people here might like to learn that.

That's it Ernie, I'm done with debating with you lol. The fact you named the whole Utd squad as if they are great is the final straw. I mean...

 

Old Carrick?

Depay???

Old Bastien??

One trick pony Vaencia?

Rojo?

Schniederlin?

Fellani?

Young?

Jones?

Januzaj?

ati

hahahhahah! They are either old or past it and need to be replaced. To replace that many and for Utd to dominate Manchester at the very least is going to be extremely hard.  Keep overrating average rivals and showing no faith in Chelsea.

Your seeing things that ain't there. I have never said there all great. I am saying its a good squad which it is. I think a world class manager can turn some of those players into better players like Schniederlin, Smalling, Jones etc. I would take Schniederlin at Chelsea any day of the week. Carrick is still a top player, always been underrated and ages doesn't matter. You seem to rate players/managers on how there performing now. For example Benteke, his been a flop this year so his no good. What happens if Kane does nothing next year, is he a flop?