Gibbs White finished the season on 15 goals while actually contributing all over the pitch. That's what we should expect from Enzo as a minimum with the attacking freedom he's allowed.

15 minutes ago, GarnachoCheese said:

Gibbs White finished the season on 15 goals while actually contributing all over the pitch. That's what we should expect from Enzo as a minimum with the attacking freedom he's allowed.

Now that's a much more sensible argument.

One thing that would give me pause on Gibbs is that he's already 26 and still at Forest. That's not proof of anything, but if a player is capable of producing those numbers at a top club, you'd normally expect the market to have been all over him by now.

27 minutes ago, GarnachoCheese said:

Playing for a lower tier side and outperforming Enzo in a better side. What does that say about Enzo?

Yes, i remember KDH playing for us. He was afforded 250 minutes in the premier league because BlueCo couldn't afford to see their poster boy dropped. Since leaving he's proven he's every bit as effective as Enzo in a much worse team. Transfer fees are irrelevant when you look at what they're producing on a match day.

You're acting as though KDH performing reasonably well for Everton is a revelation that changes the evaluation.

It isn't. Everyone can see it. It's already priced in. Just like his Chelsea performances are priced in, and those were largely not good enough.

You're presenting 27-year-old KDH's Everton form as if it's evidence that nobody has considered. The question isn't whether KDH has decent numbers. The question is why the game still values the two players so differently.
After all, while one is getting linked with top clubs, the other is pretty much settled at Everton.

24 minutes ago, acaeus said:

Now that's a much more sensible argument.

One thing that would give me pause on Gibbs is that he's already 26 and still at Forest. That's not proof of anything, but if a player is capable of producing those numbers at a top club, you'd normally expect the market to have been all over him by now.

You're acting as though KDH performing reasonably well for Everton is a revelation that changes the evaluation.

It isn't. Everyone can see it. It's already priced in. Just like his Chelsea performances are priced in, and those were largely not good enough.

You're presenting 27-year-old KDH's Everton form as if it's evidence that nobody has considered. The question isn't whether KDH has decent numbers. The question is why the game still values the two players so differently.
After all, while one is getting linked with top clubs, the other is pretty much settled at Everton.

You're sinking with the Belgrano on this one. He's cak, id have taken KDH over Enzo this season every single game because he is reliable, doesnt go missing, is as effective or more at doing what Enzo doesnt have the ability to do.

KDH delivers against top sides, regularly, Enzo doesnt and only performs well against clubs from lower divisions.

7 hours ago, bluelightening said:

You're sinking with the Belgrano on this one. He's cak, id have taken KDH over Enzo this season every single game because he is reliable, doesnt go missing, is as effective or more at doing what Enzo doesnt have the ability to do.

KDH delivers against top sides, regularly, Enzo doesnt and only performs well against clubs from lower divisions.

That clarifies everything, thank you.

He's more reliable at Everton, but he wasn't reliable at all when playing for us. I wonder what changed.

52 minutes ago, acaeus said:

That clarifies everything, thank you.

He's more reliable at Everton, but he wasn't reliable at all when playing for us. I wonder what changed.

Trust+faith+minutes-expectation=confidence.

20 minutes ago, C3blue said:

Trust+faith+minutes-expectation=confidence.

Or maybe just maybe he's not good enough for a top club? it happens. I think KDH is a good footballer and we could've used him this season, but definitely not starting material for any top club.

If the gap between KDH and Enzo is really that small, there are a few clubs around Europe that could save themselves an awful lot of money.

Edited June 19Jun 19 by acaeus

I think we're going in circles with this Enzo vs KDH debate, so I'll just put my prediction on record and leave it there:

Enzo Fernandez will continue moving between top clubs for the rest of his career, while KDH will remain at Everton or at roughly that level.

We'll see who's right.

I’m not saying KDH is as good as Enzo just giving a reason why his performances may have improved since his move to Everton.

For the record when they were both here I didn’t think KDH could lace Enzo’s boots but statistically this season has made a mockery of both their standing in the game and therefore their price tags.

I genuinely don’t get Enzo’s standing in the game, it’s not based on anything he has done in a cfc shirt. I hope we can get top $ on him and reinvest.

18 minutes ago, acaeus said:

I think we're going in circles with this Enzo vs KDH debate, so I'll just put my prediction on record and leave it there:

Enzo Fernandez will continue moving between top clubs for the rest of his career, while KDH will remain at Everton or at roughly that level.

We'll see who's right.

but what would you be right about? That some clubs have terrible SD’s and some players have good agents?

Enzo brings the type of commercial aspect in Argentina that Beckham used to over here, this props up his valuation as much as anything he does on the pitch.

11 minutes ago, C3blue said:

I’m not saying KDH is as good as Enzo just giving a reason why his performances may have improved since his move to Everton.

Fair enough, but that's the part that feels so obviously apples to oranges to me that I find it difficult to even go there as a comparison.

4 minutes ago, C3blue said:

For the record when they were both here I didn’t think KDH could lace Enzo’s boots but statistically this season has made a mockery of both their standing in the game and therefore their price tags.

I genuinely don’t get Enzo’s standing in the game, it’s not based on anything he has done in a cfc shirt. I hope we can get top $ on him and reinvest.

I think what’s happening is Chelsea’s poor season (by our standards and investment) is getting mapped onto individual players, especially the expensive ones.

But that ignores the mess around the squad structure, managerial instability, and how unbalanced the team is.

You end up judging Enzo as if he’s playing in a functioning system when he clearly hasn’t been.
Reminder that I do agree that he can be difficult to slot in certain formations; just don't get the hate.

Who can blame him? We’re a sh*t show he’s given it a chance and we’ve regressed. Players are ambitious if we can’t match those expectations players will leave. Continue as we have and next it will be Palmer, Caicedo, Joao Pedro, and Estevao. Chances are will replace them with lesser players and the Spursification will continue.

That’s what angers me most rather than Enzo rejecting us.

What I will say is he’s not a number 10 and if he goes to Madrid they won’t play him as a 10

15 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

I think most of the dislike is because he is not what people hoped he would be.

This.

Was genuinely expecting him to be what Vitinha is to PSG.

3 minutes ago, C3blue said:

but what would you be right about? That some clubs have terrible SD’s and some players have good agents?

Enzo brings the type of commercial aspect in Argentina that Beckham used to over here, this props up his valuation as much as anything he does on the pitch.

Right, but this isn’t really a disagreement with one scout, one manager, or one club.

Just at this club, it’s been multiple managers in a short time, all with different approaches, and Enzo has still consistently been used as a key player. I fully expect Alonso to do the same if Enzo stays.

You can factor in club instability, but IMO that consistency of selection still matters. At the very least, it tells you that replacing him would not be straightforward or cheap.

Edited June 19Jun 19 by acaeus

50 minutes ago, C3blue said:

Enzo brings the type of commercial aspect in Argentina that Beckham used to over here, this props up his valuation as much as anything he does on the pitch.

That would be important if Argentina had money, lol.

Beckham, today, is more of a commercial boon to Manchester United than Enzo is to Chelsea

16 hours ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Man Utd fans for years have been moaning to be how bad Bruno was. He was very unpopular.

I don't think he was ever unpopular, but was a scapegoat for their failures under ten Hag

I think that was quickly proven to be a dumb opinion

13 hours ago, acaeus said:

That clarifies everything, thank you.

He's more reliable at Everton, but he wasn't reliable at all when playing for us. I wonder what changed.

I would argue that when he was with us he was a consistent performer not given the opportunity. He didnt look out of place in our side. I was shocked we signed him, but thought he was actaully a good player who always put in a performance. We sold the wrong player last summer, hoping we done make the same mistake twice and get Enzo to a club his talents deserve.

1 hour ago, bluelightening said:

I would argue that when he was with us he was a consistent performer not given the opportunity. He didnt look out of place in our side. I was shocked we signed him, but thought he was actaully a good player who always put in a performance. We sold the wrong player last summer, hoping we done make the same mistake twice and get Enzo to a club his talents deserve.

He was a fixture in the Conference League team, no more than a handful of starts for the senior team. I don't think he ever had the opportunity to show his worth. Curious given that Maresca brought him with him.

12 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

That would be important if Argentina had money, lol.

Beckham, today, is more of a commercial boon to Manchester United than Enzo is to Chelsea

That might change if he goes to RM. Both Real and Enzo are big in South America put the two together that’s a lot of shirts but I don’t suppose that matters if there all Jekyll.

23 minutes ago, dermott said:

He was a fixture in the Conference League team, no more than a handful of starts for the senior team. I don't think he ever had the opportunity to show his worth. Curious given that Maresca brought him with him.

Meresca brought his guy and was told the play their guy.

1 hour ago, dermott said:

He was a fixture in the Conference League team, no more than a handful of starts for the senior team. I don't think he ever had the opportunity to show his worth. Curious given that Maresca brought him with him.

He never let the side down... We won the conference... he won me over with his application and professionalism tbh, sadly, traits I cant acuse Enzo of having.

Players doing well at smaller clubs and failing to make an impact at a big club isn't something new. We all thought Delap would be an upgrade on Jackson for example.

Different kinds of pressure and expectations.

This thread is mad. Enzo is better than KDH. Madrid are not itching to sign KDH. Stats are not everything.

On 18/06/2026 at 09:00, GarnachoCheese said:

Reece James was and is the captain.

Enzo was shoehorned in because the club wasted 120M on him and had to justify them getting ripped off by trying to make him the face of the club. Enzo repaid them by racially abusing his teammates, ghosting for most of the season, arguing with team mates on the pitch and then forcing a move after helping us to a 10th place finish.

Great leader. Its a shame to see people be so weak minded and buy into BlueCo's PR. At least they have seen the error of their ways and their failure and are letting him leave.

This needs to be pinned

19 hours ago, acaeus said:

Fair enough, but that's the part that feels so obviously apples to oranges to me that I find it difficult to even go there as a comparison.

I think what’s happening is Chelsea’s poor season (by our standards and investment) is getting mapped onto individual players, especially the expensive ones.

But that ignores the mess around the squad structure, managerial instability, and how unbalanced the team is.

You end up judging Enzo as if he’s playing in a functioning system when he clearly hasn’t been.
Reminder that I do agree that he can be difficult to slot in certain formations; just don't get the hate.

Enzo being with over hundred million means he should be play well regardless of the players or manager around him. He doesn’t deserve to get excuses as you’ve listed.