ethicalstrategy

So creating goals for the team and scoring goals for the team shouldn't be taken in to account when determining whether Frank is selfish or not? : I amnot sying that in its entirety however you have to admit that using assists is a bit irrelevant when the player takes the corners and indirect free kicks - he has no option but to 'pass' to someone else! I admit no such thing!! There is no law that says every corner or indirect free kick must lead to a goal. I would interpret it as meaning that he takes good corners and freekicks. Assist = playing a significant part in the scoring of a goal (see cross for SWP's goal on Saturday) Pass = kicking the ball to another player in your team Two quite different things Now if he had been taking all of the corners and freekicks and not getting any assists then that would be a problem. Really, I can't think that I have ever thought about Frank being selfish. He has always struck me as a team player.

So creating goals for the team and scoring goals for the team shouldn't be taken in to account when determining whether Frank is selfish or not? :? :? :? I think I am right in saying that he also tops the charts for ground covered during matches too - no doubt just for his own selfish ends

Valerie has him tucked up in Amsterdam Presumably that would mean that it's a groin strain not a calf strain - no wonder it's taking a long time to get better!!

I have to say that I too think there may be more to this than meets the eye. We have heard that Petr will be back in the next couple of weeks but not a whisper about Carlo. It's hard to believe that he would have been left out in recent matches if he was fit but at the same time he has been absent for a long period without any suggestion as to when he might return. If Cech is fit before the end of January then I think we might well see Carlo on his way elsewhere.

So where are we creating chances from? :? How come Lamps is the league leader in assists? Personally I don't think we are "very poor" at anything (with the exception of defending in the last few weeks!)

He did, but not as a midfielder.

surely you also have to take into account the rule about balance! So, the second photo more than cancels out any lustful urges that might be stirred in the first photo - thus the equlibrium is maintained!

I think it is time for us to stop listening to all the crap that's being spouted in the media and get back to the dominating way we were playing when we beat Barca. for the Wigan game - injuries permitting - I would like to see us play 4-4-2 but not in a diamond. Hopefully it would look like this: -----------------Cech Ferreria----JT-------Carvalho------Cole Essien-----Ballack--Lampard-----Robben ------------Sheva------Drogba Essien has shown enough at right back this season to convince me he can be effective on the right. Robben will have work a bit harder defensively. The big advantage would be that we get two up front without losing width. I think Drogba will like that sort of formation and I think it will suit Sheva a lot more too. That still leaves us the option to push Essien inside and bring on SWP or Kalou. (or even Joey if he isn't really injured forever!) Makelele will get a rest which it looks to me he really needs. We really need to go on a winning streak to put some pressure on Utd. Let's get it started against Wigan!

I was particularly amused to hear Lawrenson almost in tears at 2-0 down and questioning why Bellamy was still warming up. I really did think he was about to cry! and was it just me or did Hansen look like death warmed up?

Is or isn't? Now I am confused :?:

I'm not really sure what the arguement is here. No-one is saying that Gallas isn't better than Carvalho. If you are saying Carvalho is no good then I and a lot of others might disagree. Slaughtering him for his error yesterday seems a little harsh to me. As does saying he makes more mistakes in one match than Gallas has made in his whole career. and just to reiterate, Gallas plays for Arsenal now - or rather he would if he was fit. No amount of whingeing is going to bring him back & having a go at Carvalho because of it is totally off the mark - it wasn't his decision to sell Gallas

i remember a certain Mr Gallas slipping & causing us to lose our only game in the league against Man City two seasons ago

I really think you are looking at Eidur through some rose tinted glasses. Firstly, it was Eidur who asked to leave. Secondly, he was every bit as ineffective as Sheva last season for us. In fact he exhibited all of the same failings. Too slow on the ball, playing with his head down, running down blind alleys!! It was also clear he wasn't still motivated. He was overweight and needed a fresh challenge. I'm glad he is doing well at Barca, but he is in a different league and faced with a new challenge and has had the luck that Eto'o has been injured and so has got a regular start - something he couldn't have expected. But I don't think his absence has had any impact on our season. Unlike losing Gallas which has come back to bite us pretty hard. But with Gallas, Mourinho wanted him to stay but Willie wanted to go so what could he do? Huth would have been useful, but I don't see him as being any better than Boularhouz to be honest and, again, he didn't want to stay. Mourinho has a record of letting players go if they don't want to stay and I think that's the right thing. While mentioning Mourinho's purchases we ought not to forget Essien, Drogba and Carvalho. All of whom have done OK.

and there was me thinking that we had dropped all our recent points playing 4-3-3. Must have been my imagination. and don't forget Diamonds

I also learnt that travelling to and back from the game in the same car as my mother and father on boxing day was a very big mistake. I wanted to hang myself by the time we got to the M3!

I agree with Everything EXCEPT that bit. Believe me, I am not on a one man anti Ballack crusade - despite some of my posts!! But I thought the midfield did play a lot better last night without Ballack. Agreed, both SWP and Kalou did little to suf=ggest that they should remain in the starting 11, but with no Ballack, I thought we saw a much more effective Lamps (esp first half) and Essien too had more space to make an impact. Although neither actually did create or score I would agree that in the first half Lamps and Essien were able to get forward well. Some of that was down to Villa not going over the half way line but mostly it was down to us playing with a midfield three. Unfortunately, in the second half Frankie looked very heavy legged and had no width to exploit. Playing with Ballack in place of either Kalou or SWP wouldn't solve the width problem but it would have given us a bit more control in the midfield particularly in what was a very weary and uninspiring second half performance. And of course don't forget Ballack has scored a couple of crucial goals in the league in tight away games. He is certainly more likely to get his head on a ball in the box or lash one in from 25 yards than SWP or Kalou. Having said all that, my point was that we weren't suddenly so much better without him in the team.

The bleeding obvious: 1. Losing your best (and second best) goalkeeper makes your defence weaker 2. Losing your Captain and inspiration and best defender makes both your defence and the whole team weaker 3. Playing players out of position causes more problems than it solves. The bleeding obvious (at least to me!): 4. Any problems we have been having this season are not down to whether we play 4-4-2 (Diamond) or 4-3-3. Both have been tried and we have variously done well and not so well in both formations. 5. All our problems cannot be attributed to Ballack and Shevchenko - despite what my Dad thinks! I haven't noticed SWP or Kalou staking much of a claim to a permanent starting place. And our midfield wasn't any better without Ballack last night. SWP's performance was worse than anything I have seen from either of the two "big names" this season. And of course: 6. Despite taking 9 points out of 15 from 5 matches (3 away from home) at a busy time when just about everything has gone against us, we are in the middle of a full blown crisis. - but at least we will probably still avoid relegation!

In general terms I don't find the way we play boring. Of course there are some matches that are dull - last night for example - but on the whole I think we play a much more sophisticated game than most. United like to attack at pace and Arsenal can pass the ball to death but if neither of those plans work then they are more than a little stuffed. Whereas we can and do change things around and adapt. Our ability to do this has been hampered a lot by the injuries we have had and this was illustrated well again last night when we didn't have the usual alternatives on the bench. I don't remember Arsenal being very exciting when they came to the Bridge and played with 1 up front looking for the draw. I don't remember United playing a lot of free flowing football when we dominated them in the second half at OT. I would definitely not swap the last two and a half seasons for being exciting but gallant losers.

On the subject of the title of this thread: There are many valid criticisms that you can level at the team and manager at the moment, but being like watching paint dry surely isn't one of them? Maybe when we weren't conceding any goals and comfortably hanging on for 1-0 wins there was an element of that, but the last few games have been very watchable - not always in a good way I admit, but edge of the seat and exciting nevertheless. Personally I'd quite like a few boring 1-0 wins to give my heart a chance to recover!

I would say he started slowly. In Claudio's last season he really hadn't adapted to the english league. He wanted too long on the ball and gave it away a lot. But since Jose arrived he has been fantastic. Whether the two things are related I'm not sure.

I ticked the option for "What a stupid poll" Maybe we should use the Harry Hill solution: There's only one way to find out .... fight!!

So you mean you'd prefer the super league to the current set up of the champions league? In other words you would rather currently be in a euro super league than in the CL/PL system? ethical strategy you ever eaten a cake made entirely of icing? When I did the first mouthful was good but I ended up throwing up because it was too rich. I love icing!! I can take your point though.

I voted yes. It will happen eventually anyway. We are too far down the road to turn back the clock. If I had the choice of watching us play Charlton, Bolton, Middlesborough etc or Madrid, Milan & Barca then it is a no brainer. You need the fear of losing to create some atmosphere in the ground. The atmosphere was fantastic on Sunday because there was a chance we might not win or even possibly lose and the enjoyment when we did win was all the greater.

Be good if you can keep this going Butch. Trouble is at some point you'll have to change the heading of the thread, as I stand by the view that we look a fair bit worse than last season at the moment and I will be totally amazed if we end the season with a higher points total than we did in the last two. Prepare to be amazed

Guilty as sin! It was clear from Jose's comments before he was sold that he was well out of order. I think the club was right to come out and tell us this. I'm afraid Gallas has behaved discgracefully.