youlots

Benitez tactical errors: 1. Playing too high up the park which caused Gerrard a few problems; 2. Doing so without Crouch at the same time; 3. Directing that most balls go to Gerrard; 4. Subbing way too late. But hey, he shook everyone's hands so at least he is a courteous master tactician.

Well to be fair, Pool did win the Charity Shield so there is some silverware (Note: LFC to check current & ongoing security of cabinets at Anfield) and we all know that 07/08 must surely be their year as far as the title goes. Just like their glorious fans predicted at the start of this season, or last season, or the season before last season, or the season two seasons before last season, or the season three seasons before last season .....forever and ever and ever and....

A few of us down here (who unfortunately couldn't make it over much to our enduring disappointment) had an interesting chat/speculation about what the media (english in particular) would say if we won it 1-0 and it was a tight, defensive contest (ie. the sort of contest that has characterised most of the recent games between Chels and Manure where Jose has mostly had the wood over SAF). We came up with an entirely predictable list of media comments on the one hand (that has mostly come to pass) and a separate list of "comments" that would not be published about such a result. Those lists have been mostly made out in the spot on analysis/comments above. The only thing that I'd add is how quickly the media in general have dropped any stories or any in depth analysis about the contest in terms of what it means for Manure next season in terms of their adopted style of play (presumably on the pretext of Athens). I spose what I'm trying to say is that apart from the toffee aberation late on, IMO many of the better teams in the league have started to work out how to hamper Manure's free-wheelin counter-attacking style and that because of this I'd say it was a good bet that Manure will score far fewer goals next season. If that happens, we won't, of course, be reading headlines & stories prasing the good tactical job the other managers have performed in thwarting Manure's "exciting" counter-attack but more of the same drivel about how the "Beautiful", "English" or "[add own epithet here]" is being diseased/viralled/imploded by stultifying defense and that the cause of this malaise is none other than ours truly, Jose Mourinho. No doubt, as said above, we'll also continue to see much the same sort of harping by some on here. At least we know who they're likely to be and what they're likely to say. For much the same reason, I hope Milan beat the Pool by say, 1-0, and in so doing totally close down any Liverpool threat (if any such threat is concievable) and control the tempo for the entire match: That is, play like the great italian teams in the past in much the same way that Chels did at Wembley last Saturday. If that occurs, I bet we won't see any (or many) comparisons of praise between Chels and Milan but I suppose we always live in hope for more objective, incisive journalism, otherwise we would stop reading much of the twaddle put about altogether.

To be fair to Ballack, it looked pretty bad when he was trod on - he insisted on going back on, hobbled around for a while and it was obvious that it was bad. Obviously none of us have the full information as to whether he informed the club that he was going home for the op and whether he had clearance but regardless of what one thinks of Ballack's contribution this year, he's never struck me as one who, unlike others, has feigned injury and IMO he went for the op in order to try and be ready for Wembley. I mean, how could it be imagined that any footballer would want to miss Wembley.

I have to agree with Just. Drogs against Pool at the Bridge. Back to goal, collect/spin/strike/goal. Reina/any goalkeeper totally helpless. Classic.

I know he hasn't been 1st choice for much of the season; I know that he's scored some crucial goals in certain games aas a sub; I know he's young & underdone & possibly our/my disappointment with Sheva vis a vis Drogs outstanding season has led me to question Kalou of late & his long term viability with us; I just don't think he's ever going to gel with Drogs. Am I wrong?

A dig at dignity; nicely worked Lofty

I know I'm probably going to get hammered for this but a big chels man over here has some contacts with multiplex over here, as do I, and we're both tryng to get over there for this. I imagine that if we do, Nibs, Liam or G4 will be fallin over themseves to put me up.

So G4 to sum up: You wade in here after the fact and misreport what was said. You' re than pulled up for it and you quickly edit your posts but without an honourable mention of doing so or to offer an apology for the first mistake. You're then pulled up for that and then you throw the switch to vaudeville. You're a nasty dishonest little piece of work aren't you mate.

So the snide comments now gone eh - later "edition" and all that

G4 now you're being disingenuous as well - you'll fit right at the guardiuan mate.

G4 you say that "Liam said absolutely nothing for [me] to attack him". You mean apart from calling what I'd said "sh*te" or calling me an "idiot" and not even bothering to comment on the rest of what I had to say in his very first post on this thread. Sounds like you're all cut out for a job in the media - misreporting seems to be your forte. Go back and hav a read.

Lofty, not anti-brit at all... has something to do with not seeing it through, not stickin together no matter what the odds or how helpless the situation and not constantly blaming etc.

Sorry Lofty ya point being lost in some sort of speculative haze....??

Nibs I appreciate the response but again, lets get sometings straight. I don't worship Jose & nobody is above criticism, least of all Jose. He does make dumb comments from time to time - he always has - but so what, so does Ferguson, bentiez, wenger etc. What I find breathtaking is that given he's always making provocative comments and that we lost on penalties, that it now all coalesces in some sort of putsch that its time that he moved on. Fair enough, if posters like Paully above, which he's done to his credit, talks about Joses' pluses and minuses on the park with a fair bit of erudite comment, but save us the twaddle about sportmanship et al as some sort of criteria as to why Jose should be sacked. Its a professional sport for godsakes and we have to keep on winning in the short term I would have thought in order to keep the owner on board. Surely Jose is the man for that If we don't win anything next year, then sure take another look at the picture but it is way too premature to be even contemplating that. That position is not a genre of censorship its just bloody common sense.

Heckel, no, I meant what I said and I'll leave it at that -perhaps the cultural ellipsis was too great. By the way, the wiki wanniassa reference doesn't include the pejorative meaning - which goes back decades - although in this context it was perfect. Some of our forbears used it at Gallipoli against certain british officers - I'd better leave it that.

Your so right Liam - you don't deserve my respect - you're a oxymoronic bourgy wanniassa and I'm done with you.

Loz you said he was the chelsea supporter/fan whatever. You obviously know him - I respect your call. I'm not asking anyone to get into bed with Jose or love him. I'm just defending the man. I think he deserves to be defended. I'm not trying to drive a wedge between Chels and Jose. But some are. How long since manure won anything? What about the Arse? Bet ya would be seeing the sort of tripe drivelled up on here against them if they'd helped win the league 2 years running. It's sad.

Liam, if "sh*te" is paraphrasing then so be it. Ya know you're always citicising Jose - in fact you even post that your proud that you've never liked him. Well I respect that even if I think it is and has always been self-serving twaddle. What really galls me is that you never put your money where your mouth is. I mean who is that you want to manage the chels and why? If you at least gave us that then, well I might think that there was something to this all knowing/masonic eye icon of yours but it never comes does it?

So then, we come down to what it means to be a chelsea supporter do we loz? OK then, instead of doing Nibs bidding/mothering, what do you think a "chelsea supporter" should be? What should they feel? What opinions should they be allowed to express? Everything I suppose - this site is democratic which is great. I guess I'm just really disappointed in some posters on here. I mean really, but for a win against the barcodes or bolton and but for the toffees gifting manure a win we would have been level with Manure and but for losing apenalty shoot-out in a semi of the european cup for godsakes we would have been Athens. Ok then, let Jose go, ask Frank, JT and most of the rest if they want to stay without Jose. I doubt it.

Well Nibs why don't you write a letter to the board then? Why don't you start picketing the Bridge with a sandwich board? Put your money where your mouth is and hand in your club membership? Your argument seems to be well you know thanks for the recent silverware and oh yeah especially where we've never really cracked it before with any consistency in 100 years but, hey Jose, you know, you've really got no dignity and you're comments aren't really very british and, hey look, our football at present is not nearly exciting as say Arsenal or Man U and I'm really starting to get so upset about what all the british media keep constantly saying about us dear old chels: it's so deeply upsetting that....well really, perhaps its time you went. Why don't you start writing for the guardian/times/sky/UEFA/british media in general/ cos that's what they're saying? Seriously. All this bourgy outpourings. really... Let's be honest about the European Cup. In the the last 20 years, english teams have won it twice: both in extraordinary circumstances where they probably shouldn't have: Manure in extra time in '99 when Bayern relaxed in the last 2 mins and Pool in '05 when Milan totally switched off (hubris?) in the 2nd half (and then Pool won on penalties). Let's also be honest about why english/scottish teams haven't done consistently well in the European Cup in the last 20 years: because the english game is so different to Spain/France etc and because british defences have traditionally been weak (why have Milan/Juve etc got to the finals - predominantly because of their defences. The corrollary of this is that our sternest opposition in European competition under the defensive style that Mourinho has adopted in order to get us where we've got will be other british teams who have also tidied up on their defences (such as benitez, more recently ferguson, even wenger - hence gallas). The Arse also got to the final last year because of their defence - not because of Henry et al. We both know that if Pool upset Milan again in Athens it won't be on account of beautiful football but on account of defence. We also both know that if we'd scored the 1 goal we'd needed at Anfield and got to Athens, it had the potential to be a great game of football precisely because we do have some great footballers as does Milan (and more so than Pool) but equally, because of our back 5. We didn't - but that's football. Its all very well to say that Barca beat the Arse last year because Goofy/Messi/Deco go them there. That's only partly true - they got there because they had a great defence and Riikard would be the first to acknowledge this. And that's what Jose has given us. From Maka to the back four. There's this constant drivel on this site abouts JCLs - I'd say the biggest problem on here is about warped nostalgia, proper perspective and short memories. Oh and by the way, when Jose arrived in England and talked about being the "special one" he was taking the piss. Yet even now you're using it as a criticism of him. Mate, I hate to be in the trenches with you. Sorry.

A bit of balance from Qaz - well said. Had we scored another at home or 1 goal at Anfield we would have won. We didn't. Oh and some of our players are crap at penalties (whereas Pool, as their "history" shows are perenially consistent at penalties and continue to collect silverware as a result). That's it. That's football. At least we were there to lose it in the first place and in all 4 comps at the business end. Better than any other team in England (incl. Manure) and every other team in Europe this year. Some alleged "supporters" should get some perspective.

Ambro we were not beaten over the 2 legs in "open play"; we were beaten by a penalty shoot-out. As for the comment that our team performances this year were "often" sub-standard, what does that mean? We've only lost 3 out of 35 games in the league, won all our games in the domestic cups thus far & only lost a few games in the CL. I suppose on your measure we have to dominate all our games and win by 3 goals at least, concede no goals at all and lose no games whatsoever or some variant on that: That is, be pretty close to team of the decade if not the century. If not, so it follows, we should sack the manager.....jesus

Christ, here we go again with all the Jose "recriminations". Leaving aside today (which I'll agree wasn't one of Jose's finest matches in terms of the timing of the subs) I still don't understand what is it that some of you want. Sounds to me as if you want Ranieri back again. No f**k that why not just lobby for our beloved owner to buy Wenger so that we can play "the beautiful game". Leaving aside the obvious pain of losing 2 CL semis in 2 years (by a ghost goal or by penalties), in that time we've won 2 titles and the odd cup (x2) & still have the chance of winning at Wembley in a few weeks. That's a hell of a lot better than any other time in our history. And if we win our 3 remaining games in the PL we'll finish on 89 points. 89 points for godsakes!!! How many other titles have been won by a total of 89 points or more?!? How many by 85 or more ?1? The point is that some you are so f**kin ungrateful and the implicit criticism is that we should be more like Manure (who are having an incredible year and incredible luck if the game against the toffees is used as a yardstick) in our style of play. Bollocks. Cups are Cups - and they're no measure of a team. If a manager gets your team to 2 semis of the CL in 3 years (where it could have gone either way) that, imo, is about as good as you can honestly hope the manager can do - especially in a world cup year and regardless of how much an oligarch owner has spent (even of some players that have been a joke and which the manager didn't want). So, the issue is, if you don't want Jose who do you want? Say it.