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Should we switch from 4-3-3?


blizeH
Eton Blue at the Chelsea Megastore

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I know we have a whole load of problems right now, not just the system - but it clearly isn't working lately, with the players we have available, not even close.

And I know we struggle in the way of wingers, which means this would be a hard formation to pull off correctly, but Malouda down the left and then either Essien or someone else (Ramires, Kalou, Sturridge?) played on the right?

Any thoughts?

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I am having flashbacks of when JM went to the diamond in the carling cup and Liverpool took us apart.

I wouldnt be opposed to trying it out, had we done it a couple of games ago. Before such big games it just strikes me as a big risk.

On the other hand, if we are going to have to stick Paulo against Bale, having a midfielder like Essien directly in front of the fullback would be a huge help.

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Well what are the options?

4-4-2 diamond?

45-1 (like real or spain) ?

4-4-2 flat ?

Problem with the diamond is that we dont have anyone who is able to play at the top. We have no creative playmaker.

And systems involving wingers...we dont have anyone for the right. Ramires maybe...at least he played there for Benfica. But apart from an decent defensive job I cant see how he would set the world on fire.

Anelka can play in a 4-3-3 but he cant really play as an out and out winger in a 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 imo. Options are rather limited.

Speaking about the Spurs game..

I would like a 451 like that

-------------cech------------

pf--------ivan-jt--------ash

---------ess--mikel----------

ramires---josh---malouda

------------drogs-------------

Edited by german-blue
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Well what are the options?

4-4-2 diamond?

45-1 (like real or spain) ?

4-4-2 flat ?

Problem with the diamond is that we dont have anyone who is able to play at the top. We have no creative playmaker.

And systems involving wingers...we dont have anyone for the right. Ramires maybe...at least he played there for Benfica. But apart from an decent defensive job I cant see how he would set the world on fire.

Anelka can play in a 4-3-3 but he cant really play as an out and out winger in a 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 imo. Options are rather limited.

Speaking about the Spurs game..

I would like a 451 like that

-------------cech------------

pf--------ivan-jt--------ash

---------ess--mikel----------

ramires---josh---malouda

------------drogs-------------

i reckon if you're going to play paulo at rb you might as well give bosingwa a go at right wing, he's not the greatest defender anyway but his pace and trickery are pretty terrifying, he could be really good further up the field

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See, last night I thought it was the opposite. Defensively he did okay and got in some very nice tackles, but he was an absolute liability on the ball.

Moot point anyway since he's injured for Sunday.

Gotta say I quite like that 4-5-1 lineup, but do worry about the lack of support for Drogs.

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3-5-2 has to be worth a shout, I think we have the players to try it.

-----------------------Cech

-----------Ivan------Terry-------Alex

Bossy---------------Mikel---------------Cole

---Ramires/Essien----Malouda/Lampard--

-----Anelka/Sturridge/Drogs/Kalou----- <any 2 of the 4.

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We shouldn't change the 4-3-3. It's essentially been the foundation of every recent success this team has had.

Tottenham's midfield are clever, quick and are excellent at passing. If we cede our numerical advantage in midfield, we're going to have problems defending from route 1 attacks, as well as down our right side. Our linkup play between attack and defence has, as some have pointed out, been poor lately. If we switch to a 4-4-2, more likely than not our midfield two will be Essien and Mikel, from whom we will get a limited attacking presence (Mikel's inevitable screamer aside, of course). Our attacking line were extremely fluid in the first half against Everton and I was frankly quite impressed.

What the papers won't tell you is that there is an upside to having an experienced squad who have played together for years. They learn each other's game inside out and get a natural sense of where they will be at a given time. With a lack of confidence in the squad, the last thing we want to do is change the system which got us our success in the first place. This squad was built around the 4-3-3; it's what they do best. Drogba is the very epitome of the optimum lone striker, we have two excellent attacking full backs in Cole and Bosingwa and Mikel is developing into a class defensive mid. Why change the system to something they don't know how to do when confidence is low? I think I mentioned the benefit of keeping it simple in another thread - a three-man midfield enables us to do just that.

Besides, Carlo has made it fairly clear that his backup formation of choice is the 4-diamond-2, which isn't really a possibility right now considering our lack of centre mids, particularly Benayoun, who is really (with the exception of shunting Anelka or Zhirkov out of position, or taking a huge risk by playing McEachran in a very difficult role) our only option to play at the tip.

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The 4-5-1 with our playes isn't a true 4-5-1. If we would play it, it would be more of a 4-2-3-1. The four defenders obviously. 2 holding midfielders, which is perfect for Mikel and Essien. You can advance the 2 wide players, which is where Anelka and Malouda would play. Lampard, when fit would be perfect for the middle spot. Other players would be good there too. (Josh and Kakuta). Obviously Drogba up front.

.........................Cech.............................

Ivan............Alex............Terry............Cole

.............Essien.............Mikel....................

.....................Lampard...........................

....Anelka................................Malouda...

.....................Drogba..........................

And yes, I think this is the move we should go with. It brings some creativty and passing to the middle of the field that we have been desperately missing. But it keeps the width of a 4-3-3 by keeping Anelka and Malouda wide.

Edited by BrewCrew
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We hadveplayed more of a 4-4-2 in some matches recently. It hasn't helped much.

A 3-5-2 would be every interesting and if everyone were healthy we'd have the personel to play it with Cole and Boswinga but I don't know how well our centre backs would adapt to playing in a three man defense.

We could try more of a Christmas tree with two of Anelka/Malouda/Kalou/Sturridge tucked in behind Drogba and a three man midfield with Ramires and Essien playing out wide and Mikel in format of the defense. You could even play it so it was off center. Ramires could play wide to the right in order to support Ferriera and match up with Bale. Mikel and Essien could play as central midfielders with Essien further left but not out too wide. He can stay tucked in to allow Cole room on the flank.

...PF......Ivan......JT.....Cole...

..Ramires..Mikel...Essien.......

........Anelka.....Malouda.........

.................Drogba...................

Edited by BigIzz
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when we started our 433 we had duff robbin and makelele 3 players who we never quiet replaced we dont have the same type of player at the moment yet try and work the same system! we have to work with wot we have is anelka low on confidence because he is just hanging out on the wing? plus we tend to fire the ball to drogba and hope it sticks latley

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A change of formation is really needed when the players are not performing to their potential or when the opposition plays a formation to nullify our threat .

what has been apparent in Carlo's tactics is his stubborness in sticking with the same formation and players for every match these days . when things are not working , he must try to swap players or atleast change to a new formation .

We would loathe to say the name , but the reality is the best in tweaking the formations and changing personnel is Alex Ferguson . Carlo could very well take a leaf out of his book . I see Fergie playing a compact midfield against all top teams . This negates the threat of their attacking players and the midfield battle is won which most times decide the fate of the match .

Carlo is brilliant in man management and very good as a manager of a football club . But as he said before , he has to do a lot of catching up when it comes to tactics and is down in the list of tactically shrewd managers like Hiddink , Jose M , Ferguson , Pep etc., Well , we are not qualified to comment on his tactics but as the passionate fans , we love to talk about our own formations and tactics .

As suggested , 4-5-1 is very good at times when our MFs are struggling to put together passes . This makes the MF strong and atleast we will crowd the place to cause panic among the opposition MFs . It also means Drog to be a lone target man up front .. But is he not too good playing that way ? . Against Tottenham , we can try that formation . This is not the 4-3-3 . Anelka and Malouda should play close to the central MFs . Ramires and Essien can help Paulo and Cole .

------ Paulo ----- Ivan --- JT --- Acole ------

-------------------- Mikel --------------------------

--------Essien --------------- Ramires/Josh ---------

-------------Anelka/kakuta ----------Malouda -------

-----------------------Drogba ----------------------------------

Other than that , I would prefer carlo to adjust his tactics based on the opposition .

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Alex should have delayed his surgery until January so we could havegotten through this tough period with a first choice back four. If he'd already delayed it why not wait a little bit longer then we could have brought someone in the window.

Maybe he'd already delayed surgery for as long as it was wise to do so. It could well have been a risk to delay it for as long as he did.

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433 works well when the team are on song and move it quickly back to front - like last year and start this year...................BUT

it isnt working right now as the front 3 arent scoring and the middle 3 are getting overrun, so WE HAVE TO CHANGE IT FOR SPURS

We have to match there 442 and get some width to matchup lennon & bale.................other wise we will be exposed down the right (especially) like last year away when paulo got caught out

so I would start as follows

cech

paulo, ivan, JT, ash

ramires, essie, JOM, malouda

drogs, anelka

we can win the middle with that formation, and especially down the left challenge hutton/lennon who are good forwards but dodgy defensively - left side they are strong so if ramires struggles I'd swap him and essie

442 completely different and if nico cna vary his play (run long as well as short) and drogs can bully the centrebacks (as we know he can do) .....we can win it

Carlo - time for a change

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The 4-3-3 is done! Again today, we can't create any good chances playing that way (First Half). We switched in the second and saw many more players get foward. The second half today looked more like a 4-4-2 but the outside midfielders moved way up to make it more of a 4-2-3-1, which I like a lot better. It gives us more going forward. We have the players to pull it off because we have 3 capable midfielders (Essien, Mikel, Ramires) to play the 2 defensive midfielders. Plus, it gave us an option in the middle of the attack, behind Drogba.

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I know we have a whole load of problems right now, not just the system - but it clearly isn't working lately, with the players we have available, not even close.

And I know we struggle in the way of wingers, which means this would be a hard formation to pull off correctly, but Malouda down the left and then either Essien or someone else (Ramires, Kalou, Sturridge?) played on the right?

Any thoughts?

If you want to play 4-4-2 you have to have wide players who can win 1v1 battles on the edge. They also have to be fast and are capable in defense. Players like Bale, Valencia, Giggs etc. Kalou is not that player and neither is Malouda. Right now our strength is the amount of player we have who are good in the middle of the park like Essien, Mikel, Ramires, Lampard, Josh etc. If you play with only 2 CM then 2 things will happen, first a good player will be left out of the side, and second, Lampard will be forced to take on more defending responsibility. What has allowed Lampard to be so successful over the last few years is the fact that he is protected by 2 other guys in the middle which allows him to roam anywhere and everywhere and be almost like a late striker in the box.

I would stick to this formation and let Frankie get back to doing what he does.

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Cant see us playing anything else than 4-3-3 against ManU. I am 99,9% sure Fergie will go for 4-3-3 so giving them the edge in the centre of the park would be just stupid. Although if needed we SHOULD change it as we did today. It´s just that we dont have players required to play 4-4-2. IMO Malouda and Kalou are wasted in the wide midfilder positions. We can play 4-2-3-1, especially now when Lamps is back.

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