Just wanted to get the thoughts from fellow Shed Enders on where they think it went wrong for the England Under 21 team who crashed out of the European Under 21 Championship in Israel. 

 

We qualified with ease going into the competition but lost 1-0 to Italy in the opening game (a result that flattered us) then we were well beaten by Norway at the weekend 3-1 with our only goal coming from the penalty spot.

 

My feeling is that these competitions aren't taken seriously enough by the FA, it should be hammered home how important the experience of playing an international competition is even at Under 21 level.

 

England seniors played two meaningless friendlies recently and called up players who would have been eligible to play for the Under 21's. I think these players would have benefited more from trying to succeed with Under 21's over getting some game time in a friendly for the seniors.

 

 

Oxlade-Chamberlain and Phil Jones would have bought some experience to team and probably given the side more confidence. I sure Luke Shaw didn't go despite playing for Southampton all season. 

 

 

I blame Pearce. He should have built the side around McEachran!

I blame Pearce. He should have built the side around McEachran!

 

 

He started the first game with Shelvy and Henderson in the middle and bought on McEachran and Chalobah late in the second half and you instantly saw how much more confident both those players are with the ball at their feet and don't panic when they have a man on.

 

Despite how the world of football have evolved I fear we still can't move on from playing "the big lads" and having a target man up top. Connor Wickham is a decent enough player but was feeding on scraps in the first game and I think that England really need to start embracing players having the ball at their feet playing short passes and not launching things forward from the back.

 

There's talent there in the youth ranks but at times I think it's not being nurtured correctly. 

Apart from having an obviously inept manager in Pearce in charge, the entire youth set up is completely wrong. 

Apart from having an obviously inept manager in Pearce in charge, the entire youth set up is completely wrong. 

 

What do you think they need to change/focus on at youth level?

I have no issue with Pearce or the set up... I think we are simply weak in the youngster department.

 

There has been a lot of blame (as always) on youth development but if you havent got the talent you havent got the talent. It is a load of old nonsence the too many foreigners in our league argument. Decent players come and go, we just had our so called golden generation,  look at Belgium, what a generation they have coming through, who would have thought that a few years back, they look stronger than Holland now who have a brilliant youth system.

 

The most sensible argument I have heard was on talksh*te from wait for it ........ John Barnes !!... basically saying we over pay and over hype youngsters. All they need is a good half a season and they are the new saviour of English football and have all the riches to go with it, so they naturally believe they have made it therefore have less incentive to push themselves.

 

Sounds a bit half glass empty but I think our golden generation were not so golden and coming through now I  don't see as any better. As an England fan I hope I am wrong.

There were eligible players, who've played for the full England team, who didn't show. That's got to be a factor. The FA should make it clear to such players that the U21 team is an apprenticeship - players should expect to work up to the full team via the U21s in most cases.

The second issue is still that we flunk internationals. Whether from poor preparation,

too much pressure, or playing a different style from that players are used to, I don't know.

I seriously almost can't watch England now; we just aren't capable at international level.

Edited June 10, 201313 yr by Thfc

I have no issue with Pearce or the set up... I think we are simply weak in the youngster department.

 

There has been a lot of blame (as always) on youth development but if you havent got the talent you havent got the talent. It is a load of old nonsence the too many foreigners in our league argument. Decent players come and go, we just had our so called golden generation,  look at Belgium, what a generation they have coming through, who would have thought that a few years back, they look stronger than Holland now who have a brilliant youth system.

 

The most sensible argument I have heard was on talksh*te from wait for it ........ John Barnes !!... basically saying we over pay and over hype youngsters. All they need is a good half a season and they are the new saviour of English football and have all the riches to go with it, so they naturally believe they have made it therefore have less incentive to push themselves.

 

Sounds a bit half glass empty but I think our golden generation were not so golden and coming through now I  don't see as any better. As an England fan I hope I am wrong.

 

 

Got to agree with Barnes on this, look at Rayhem Sterling getting a senior England call up after only a handful of games for Liverpool, in my opinion things like that need to stop happening as it makes players think they are good enough when they really aren't. 

One thing that would improve the standard a lot but will never happen in England would be for the top clubs to have B teams playing in the lower leagues, allowing players to stay together in groups, get regular competitive football and still be within the confines of their parent club from day to day.

 

As it is now, once players turn 18/19 they either suffer from a severe lack of competitive football or go out on loan to a club where not only is there a greater risk that they take their eye off the ball (due to not being under the direct watch of those in control of their future) but they're also subjected to a much lower standard of training facilities and more importantly coaching.

I have no issue with Pearce or the set up... I think we are simply weak in the youngster department.

 

There has been a lot of blame (as always) on youth development but if you havent got the talent you havent got the talent. It is a load of old nonsence the too many foreigners in our league argument. Decent players come and go, we just had our so called golden generation,  look at Belgium, what a generation they have coming through, who would have thought that a few years back, they look stronger than Holland now who have a brilliant youth system.

 

The most sensible argument I have heard was on talksh*te from wait for it ........ John Barnes !!... basically saying we over pay and over hype youngsters. All they need is a good half a season and they are the new saviour of English football and have all the riches to go with it, so they naturally believe they have made it therefore have less incentive to push themselves.

 

Sounds a bit half glass empty but I think our golden generation were not so golden and coming through now I  don't see as any better. As an England fan I hope I am wrong.

Don't agree with that, there are some very good youngsters all across the age groups. I actually remember being quite surprised that there was more than I thought. The team that lost had the likes of Wisdom, Caulker, Clyne, Butland and our very own Chalobah. I probably missed out on a few others, can't remember the line up, but those 5 alone would be hailed as the next great things under better development. 

 

And I'm afraid Pearce is very much part of the problem, a man who encourages long balls to the big man upfront has no business being in charge of such a delicate job. Ironically, his neanderthal tactics would probably work better if he used midfielders such as Josh or Caroll, players who can actually pass a ball, instead technically weak ones such as Henderson or Lowe.

 

I'm not bothered about the loss, Norway are actually a pretty good U21 team (They were unlucky to lose to Italy)  with some good foundations that will see them do well in the future. I'm expecting them to overtake Sweden and battle it out with Denmark for the top team in Scandinavia. It's just the manner it happens, all over the place tactically and when you can't even get that right you can expect to see problems with passing and retaining of the ball. 

Edited June 10, 201313 yr by Remodez

 

And I'm afraid Pearce is very much part of the problem, a man who encourages long balls to the big man upfront has no business being in charge of such a delicate job. Ironically, his neanderthal tactics would probably work better if he used midfielders such as Josh or Caroll, players who can actually pass a ball, instead technically weak ones such as Henderson or Lowe.

 

 

 

 

Spot On.

 

Pearce is all about buldog spirit and nothing about technical ability. I'm all for having a pride in pulling on the shirt with the Three Lions but that will only get you so far.

And we wonder why we can't compete with the likes of Spain and Holland.

I think its a combination of all of the things being said.

 

Firstly and most importantly England at all levels are nowhere near good enough. The reason i'll come too in a second.

 

I agree its pointless sending players like Rodwell who hav'nt kicked a ball hardly at club level all season half way round the world for 8mins of a friendly when he could have been competing at Euro U21.

 

There are too many players getting senior call ups before they are ready but one of the reasons these days is a player is not that Nationality until they have a senior cap so players like Zaha and Sterling could be 'poached' by other countries through heritage.

 

The most important reason is the standard of coaching in this country is a joke, the buck lies with the FA. They have allowed a country so football rich at the minute to watch so much money walk out the door through player wages and agents fee's that most clubs find themselves on the brink of bankruptcy. When in fact they should be awash with cash and have the best grass roots system in the world. There should be football schools and pitches at the end of every street, coaches and facilities to enable this country to produce top quality footballers than can then be sold to envious clubs all over the world which in turn gives them greater experience and makes them far better players.

 

In the last 30 years you would struggle to name 30 British let alone English players who have had successful careers abroad in all the different leagues, yet there are probably 15 top quality Belgium players alone in the EPL as we speak. 

 

Thats a sad indictment to the type of quality players we produce. 

0 for 3, what an indictment on the state of youth football in England.

It baffles me how Shelvey didn't get substituted. He is useless, even as an option off the bench I would never pick him for England!

It baffles me how Shelvey didn't get substituted. He is useless, even as an option off the bench I would never pick him for England!

He's there to scare the opposition! (not a nice thing to say though)

his passing game is just off though. If we play 4-2-3-1 then I'd have played Redmond Ince and Zaha given the options Pearce had. They may not be good but it's a hell of a lot better than Shelvey

C3blu2, great post and agree with it entirely.  Pearce is not the man to manage at any sort of youth level, he's possibly the man you'd bring in to try and avoid relegation but that's about it.  Shame because as a character and a player he's one of the best.  but the problem came long before the players ever got to Pearce and the fact that Pearce is the U21's manager at all highlights where the problems lie.

Those running the game do not have a clue how to develop players.  I've got a lot of respect for Trevor Brooking and he actually talks a fair amount of sense, he just doesn't ever seem to know what the decisive step is or how to take it.  

At grass roots anyone can run a kids team, and that's okay because if that wasn't the case teams would fold.  The problem is what happens to those leaders of kids football that would like to become better coaches, upwards of £150 for any sort of FA coaching course for a start is prohibitive.  Add to that for me to take my next badge requires me to take a week off work and then also find weekends where I can go and work with other teams and do more courses.  I have a young family, I run training sessions generally twice a week for the kids, I work a full time job and I volunteer for a couple of other things.  So although I could and will find the time to develop my coaching skills it would be much easier if it was at a time that suited me rather than 9-5 Monday to Friday.

There's a wealth of knowledge and enthusiasm to develop youth football in this country, the FA just completely miss it.

 

Then we come onto pro clubs and their youth set ups (this is where I really get on my soap box).  The way they are organised destroys far more potential footballers than it creates.  The clubs place far too much emphasis in results, they pick kids up and drop them without giving a thought for what that will do to the kids and they treat the local clubs with utter contempt.  The coaches and coaching in my opinion is very good but the the organisation around it is totally wrong, which sort of backs up the points I made above.

 

Youth development is so close to my heart but as a result I'm prone to rant on the subject - sorry about that!

The whole issue of having to get a senior cap to confirm nationality has been a probem for us in recent years, partially due to the high immigration we have had in the last 20/30 years.

 

IMO the rules should be once you have represented a country at any level that is the country that you will represent forever.

 

If we take the Victor Moses case, the English F.A developed him all the way up to and including under 21 level, then Nigeria stepped in gave him a full cap and that was that, he is now a Nigeria player.

 

If we expect players to develop beyond the under 21's to the full setup then they need time to mature at that level without fear of losing them across a border, don't forget Josh could still end up a Scotland player, only then will the F.A and by extension the England manager not feel pressured into giving a young player a full cap.

 

The fact that Sterling and Zaha both have full caps at this stage just goes to show how ridiculous the situation is.

yeah and from a clubs point of view this whole Nationality thing cant be helpful. You buy an England U21 international who helps out with squad quota's etc who then becomes Nigerian and buggers of to Africa for 2 months mid season(not having a pop at Moses here just the system).