Reminds me of my school reports where you'd get a number from 1-5 for effort, and a letter A-E for actual results.

The coveted 5A was never attained ! I did get a 3A a couple of times ?

1 hour ago, Skinnedy said:

to me, "given their best" is about effort, not reached 100% of their potential.

They're always striving to improve as players, and part of that is by giving their best [effort] every time they step on the pitch. 

anyway, thanks @ForeverCarefree for putting these together, I enjoyed the read.

This is why I said define your best. Yes you could run around giving every last drip of sweat but your concentration may have been poor, therefore you ran around like an idiot? And so on. 

It could be argued that every player gave his best if its just measured by sweat and effort and then by default all should score highly?

21 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Reminds me of my school reports where you'd get a number from 1-5 for effort, and a letter A-E for actual results.

The coveted 5A was never attained ! I did get a 3A a couple of times ?

How many 1E`s?

4 minutes ago, charierre said:

It could be argued that every player gave his best if its just measured by sweat and effort and then by default all should score highly?

If all you're grading is effort, then sure... but the original comment was about expectations as a fan, not a rating of a player. So we're talking about two different things. 

If I'm rating players, my rating will reflect their performance, not just their effort

For example, as a USMNT fan, I don't think Michael Bradley is very good. I've said for a decade, if Bradley and Altidore are the best we have at CM and Striker, we're never going to be competitive the way we were the previous cycle. 

It's not their fault that they are the best we have, so my expectations as a fan don't change, I expect them to give their very best [effort]. 

They're not very good. That's not their fault.

As a fan, I won't degrade them for not being very good, but I'll get all over them if I see a poor effort and attitude.

and my expectations for the club are that they improve in the areas where the players may give their best effort, but it's not good enough. Victor Moses is a great example. NO ONE doubts his effort, and I love the guy. Doesn't mean I want him at Chelsea though.

 

40 minutes ago, dkw said:

How many 1E`s?

37 minutes ago, Skinnedy said:

If all you're grading is effort, then sure... but the original comment was about expectations as a fan, not a rating of a player. So we're talking about two different things. 

If I'm rating players, my rating will reflect their performance, not just their effort

For example, as a USMNT fan, I don't think Michael Bradley is very good. I've said for a decade, if Bradley and Altidore are the best we have at CM and Striker, we're never going to be competitive the way we were the previous cycle. 

It's not their fault that they are the best we have, so my expectations as a fan don't change, I expect them to give their very best [effort]. 

They're not very good. That's not their fault.

As a fan, I won't degrade them for not being very good, but I'll get all over them if I see a poor effort and attitude.

and my expectations for the club are that they improve in the areas where the players may give their best effort, but it's not good enough. Victor Moses is a great example. NO ONE doubts his effort, and I love the guy. Doesn't mean I want him at Chelsea though.

 

We are totally at cross swords here. My comment was to Yorkley to how you define your best.At no point did I question a players skillset or even mention a player. Best could be best effort , best concentration during the match , best mentally prepared before, best physical condition before( had I been on the p*ss a couple of nights before)best application, have I followed the coaches instructions etc. Hence best has a wide range in my view but it actually doesnt include skill.

1 hour ago, Sexyfootball said:

Reminds me of my school reports where you'd get a number from 1-5 for effort, and a letter A-E for actual results.

The coveted 5A was never attained ! I did get a 3A a couple of times ?

 

16 hours ago, charierre said:

We are totally at cross swords here. My comment was to Yorkley to how you define your best.At no point did I question a players skillset or even mention a player. Best could be best effort , best concentration during the match , best mentally prepared before, best physical condition before( had I been on the p*ss a couple of nights before)best application, have I followed the coaches instructions etc. Hence best has a wide range in my view but it actually doesnt include skill.

It all got a bit deep for me. I said " the only "expectations" we are entitled to are that each player does his best when on the pitch"  and that was all I meant. I only have the right to expect that.  Getting into skill level and mental preparation and all that is secondary.  Get out there and do your best, that's all I ask.

Obviously, from a huge majority of posts in here during match-day threads and after, that isn't enough for most people, but then I have never, ever been a top-class player, manager, coach and international scout like most of you. 

For example, in my mind little Denis Wise was a quite limited footballer, but always gave 100% every time and I, for one, would kill for a Wise these days. 

A whole load of you would be on his back every match because he didn't match your expectations of what he should be doing in your mind, his xG/xA (whatever the f**k that actually means) isn't what I deserve as a long-term Chelsea fan who pays a HUGE subscription to NBC Sports Centre, Sky, BT and Bein Sports EVERY SEASON, and he doesn't protect the back 4 whilst still hitting 25 goals a season.

In summary, I should have worded my initial comment more precisely.  I expect every player to give 100% for the entire match.  I have no right to "expect" anything else.

9 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

It all got a bit deep for me. I said " the only "expectations" we are entitled to are that each player does his best when on the pitch"  and that was all I meant. I only have the right to expect that.  Getting into skill level and mental preparation and all that is secondary.  Get out there and do your best, that's all I ask.

Obviously, from a huge majority of posts in here during match-day threads and after, that isn't enough for most people, but then I have never, ever been a top-class player, manager, coach and international scout like most of you. 

For example, in my mind little Denis Wise was a quite limited footballer, but always gave 100% every time and I, for one, would kill for a Wise these days. 

A whole load of you would be on his back every match because he didn't match your expectations of what he should be doing in your mind, his xG/xA (whatever the f**k that actually means) isn't what I deserve as a long-term Chelsea fan who pays a HUGE subscription to NBC Sports Centre, Sky, BT and Bein Sports EVERY SEASON, and he doesn't protect the back 4 whilst still hitting 25 goals a season.

In summary, I should have worded my initial comment more precisely.  I expect every player to give 100% for the entire match.  I have no right to "expect" anything else.

and I wish I didn't get involved 

14 hours ago, charierre said:

and I wish I didn't get involved 

Always someone with a Sports Science O level to try to make you look a tit, mate!

2 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

Always someone with a Sports Science O level to try to make you look a tit, mate!

Actually theres no such thing as a Sports Science O level.

Whoosh!

59 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Whoosh!

I was just playing along,  I don't even know what an O level is.

Edited August 14, 20205 yr by DarkMata