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Looks like Tevez is going to Man Utd then


bjd

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Which will no doubt upset some people on here.

Good player but im not sure how he and Rooney can play in the same XI.

Im not overly concerned. Let focus on ourselves rather than anyone else. Think of our first choice fully fit XI.

on another note has there ever been a more sticky, ugly forward line ?

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Utd's summer spending is looking quite interesting.

Utd line up for next season:

------------VDS/Foster

Neville----Vidic---Ferdinand-----Evra

--------------Hargreaves/Carrick

Ronaldo----------------------Giggs/Nani

--------------Anderson/Scholes

-------Rooney/Tevez?

----------------------Saha

Plus: Brown, O'Shea, Smith, Richardson, Heinze, Silvestre, Fletcher, Park, Solskjaer + some youngsters like Eagles

If I was a Utd fan I would be quite happy about their strength in depth now. I would be a bit worried about how SAF is going to accomodate all of these players.

Scholes and Giggs are getting on a bit so signing players to cover their positions makes good sense. It will give him the opportunity to introduce them slowly and rest the old timers as the season progresses.

I still see a problem with the main striker position as Saha is so injury prone. Solskjaer has never been a starter and Smith is just not top quality.

Hargreaves will be an interesting one. I assume that he will be a starter, but I can't see both he and Carrick featuring together all that often. I assume Carrick won't be too happy to sit on the bench after playing a big part in their last season.

I'm still confident that we are a better side than them head to head but they look well placed - better than last season - to offer a serious challenge again over 38 matches. Even if Tevez doesn't go there.

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This player issue is no longer about Chelsea.

-----

Apparently United are set to sign Tevez on LOAN from West Ham for two years. LOAN.

That is really nice and good spirited of the Hammers. Purely their OWN decision, NO outside influence used there....no sirrreee.

I actually feel for the Hammers fans. They have been royally screwed. Only MSI have come out of this with a result...oh and Man Utd.

Bit of a disgrace really! 106.gif

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If he does go there 'on loan' it will add more fire to the Sheff Utd case as the obvious accusation will be that this has been done because West Ham can't be seen to not be receiving the transfer fee.

In other news West Ham are aout to pay over ?7m for Bellamy - when will people learn this guy is no good! I laughed hard when Liverpool signed him, now it looks as if they are going to make a profit out of him - the football world has truly gone mad.

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As I see it the faceless owners of Tevez had West Ham over a barrel from the moment the Premier League confirmed that the club have to receive the transfer fee. United can try to deal direct with this Kia guy, but in the end the monies have go to the Hammers. Should they then be virtually forced to retain their ill gotten gains by the Premier League, the true owners will have no alternative but to go to litigation for breach of (the original) contract if they want compensation (and they will want more than ?20m).

The lone deal looks what it is, a spurious scam to put off the fateful day when Tevez is released from his present ?arrangement? by being sold outright to a club prepared to pay the correct price for the player. Anything less than a straight sale leaves all those involved open to the accusation that this is no more than a face saving cover-up designed to see off Sheff U in the short term and keep the true owners of Tevez reasonably sweet until the heat dies down. Trouble is, now they won?t even get a ?6m sweetener to keep them going until the big money rolls in.

I wonder if the High Court has jurisdiction to look at events after the Premier League ruling, or does it merely rule on the decision given at that time. If it does, I am sure any High Court Judge worth his wig will see the easiest way to resolve all issues - Tevez sold, West Ham get transfer fee and then we shall see whether the true owners end up suing the Hammers, closely followed by Sheff U suing the PL if the owners win their case. TT - what are the odds on all that happening?

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As I see it the faceless owners of Tevez had West Ham over a barrel from the moment the Premier League confirmed that the club have to receive the transfer fee. United can try to deal direct with this Kia guy, but in the end the monies have go to the Hammers. Should they then be virtually forced to retain their ill gotten gains by the Premier League, the true owners will have no alternative but to go to litigation for breach of (the original) contract if they want compensation (and they will want more than ?20m).

The lone deal looks what it is, a spurious scam to put off the fateful day when Tevez is released from his present ?arrangement? by being sold outright to a club prepared to pay the correct price for the player. Anything less than a straight sale leaves all those involved open to the accusation that this is no more than a face saving cover-up designed to see off Sheff U in the short term and keep the true owners of Tevez reasonably sweet until the heat dies down. Trouble is, now they won?t even get a ?6m sweetener to keep them going until the big money rolls in.

I wonder if the High Court has jurisdiction to look at events after the Premier League ruling, or does it merely rule on the decision given at that time. If it does, I am sure any High Court Judge worth his wig will see the easiest way to resolve all issues - Tevez sold, West Ham get transfer fee and then we shall see whether the true owners end up suing the Hammers, closely followed by Sheff U suing the PL if the owners win their case. TT - what are the odds on all that happening?

So bascialy what you saying is some one needs to rip up those papers that lay claim to tevez... he beggins at west ham and any one wanting his services will have to pay the going rate?? just checking

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As I see it the faceless owners of Tevez had West Ham over a barrel from the moment the Premier League confirmed that the club have to receive the transfer fee. United can try to deal direct with this Kia guy, but in the end the monies have go to the Hammers. Should they then be virtually forced to retain their ill gotten gains by the Premier League, the true owners will have no alternative but to go to litigation for breach of (the original) contract if they want compensation (and they will want more than ?20m).

The lone deal looks what it is, a spurious scam to put off the fateful day when Tevez is released from his present ?arrangement? by being sold outright to a club prepared to pay the correct price for the player. Anything less than a straight sale leaves all those involved open to the accusation that this is no more than a face saving cover-up designed to see off Sheff U in the short term and keep the true owners of Tevez reasonably sweet until the heat dies down. Trouble is, now they won?t even get a ?6m sweetener to keep them going until the big money rolls in.

I wonder if the High Court has jurisdiction to look at events after the Premier League ruling, or does it merely rule on the decision given at that time. If it does, I am sure any High Court Judge worth his wig will see the easiest way to resolve all issues - Tevez sold, West Ham get transfer fee and then we shall see whether the true owners end up suing the Hammers, closely followed by Sheff U suing the PL if the owners win their case. TT - what are the odds on all that happening?

So bascialy what you saying is some one needs to rip up those papers that lay claim to tevez... he beggins at west ham and any one wanting his services will have to pay the going rate?? just checking

What I?m saying, Barak, is that any sane individual can see that the only way to resolve the matter is to end the arrangement under which Tevez currently plays in the Premier League and this can only be done by selling him to a club who then treat him just like every other player in the EPL. The indecent haste United used to get him to Old Trafford has been exposed for what it is - an attempt to take advantage of Tevez?s current circumstances, to get him on the cheap for two years, and encourage him to stay for longer. No matter how much Sky go on about Fergie sagely finding a way to resolve an awkward situation it doesn?t hide the fact that he didn?t want to resolve anything, but merely wished to take advantage of the murky nature of the existing circumstances, which I see as follows:-

Kia Joorabchian has not got the authority to sanction any deal without West Ham?s say so and by picking up a cool ?1.5m for Mascherano he has already shown himself to be more of an agent than an owner of so-called economic rights. No wonder the Premier League were worried by an arrangement that would have seen United hand over ?6m directly to him, if for no other reason than it?s the MIS firm (not one individual) that own these rights and West Ham had supposedly terminated their agreement with Joorabchian (which included rights over the player) in line with FA Premier League rule U18.

Jimboola69?s point about Mascherano is valid, but not correct, because the Hammers (allegedly) tore up this player?s registration and gave up the economic rights to facilitate the transfer. They can?t to that with the rights to Tevez, following the April verdict by the independent commission, so it is these ?rights? that still exist, MIS think they give them standing in the matter and, as far as Joorabchian is concerned, he therefore believes he has the right to negotiate a deal with United. The Premier League simply can?t allow that to happen (Sheff U will take them to the cleaners) and I?m guessing it will all boil down to an arms length sale of Tevez being the only solution in the end.

Incidentally, despite Sky Sports News gleeful reporting of developments, I believe United have acted like grubby chancers throughout and should be censured if they have ignored West Ham in making their approach. From West Ham?s point of view, the only saving grace is that they have stayed in the Premiership - the rest looks like a major accident waiting to happen, if they don?t sell Tevez outright to the highest bidder and seek the Premier League?s guidance over who gets the transfer fee.

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Mostly agree with what you've said Dorset and how grubby Manure do look in all of this when the "loan" deal and the "result" at Old Trafford on the last day of the season are considered together: I can only imagine what blades supporters must think now after the 1st round litigation was lost.

As far as the High Court appeal is concerned, it can only "rule" on the issues comprised within the appeal being the EPL's use of its discretion to only fine Spam and not otherwise deduct points: any other comment would merely be "obiter". The fact that Manure are now attempting to take commercial advantage of the situation is hardly cogent evidence of any conspiracy (even if there was one) as between Manure & Spam regarding the result at OT, the consideration for the deal being some sort transfer/loan deal for Tevez later on and of which has now come to pass.

The problem for Sheffield in all of this saga has never really changed at all: that being that the Premier League, unlike a lot of other professional sports bodies, simply did not have a rigid code in place regarding transgressions of the rules. You think that after what took place in Serie A they would have finally realized that the EPL is a huge commercial business and that clubs will try on anything to remain in the comp because of the obvious financial downside otherwise. I would be very much surprised if the High Court finds in favour of Sheffield - as unjust IMO as that patently is.

Also I don't understand why you feel that Sheffield may have grounds for another case against the Premier League in the event that there was any subsequent litigation as between the real owners of Tevez and Spam and in respect to any transfer monies received by Spam from another club for which Spam did not then account to Tevez's true owners. What has that rather run of the mill cause of action got to do with Sheffield and its grievances as against the Premier League? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see the Premier League, Manure & Spam all get cained over this and, like you (and Loz I think) am really enjoying watching all of this unfold.

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Weren't AFC Wimbledon intially 'fined' something like 18 points for playing an ineligible player - this was massively reduced on appeal however I think the final penalty was still a points deduction rather than a fine.

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Loz - perhaps you're right I don't remember.

I take it that Sheffield's appeal of the EPL's decision to fine Spam was that the Tribunal or arbitrative panel (or what ever it was) had to decide whether the EPL's decision to only levy a fine as opposed to imposing a points deduction was within the EPL's discretion under its guiding articles of asscociation/constitution. I assume that in the absence of the EPL having a definitive code of sanctions in place under those articles for different types of transgressions by its member clubs, it had a wide discretion to levy a sanction that the EPL thought reasonable. In these types of cases involving private sporting bodies, with that sort of discretion, the avenue of appeal for one of its members to test the use of that discretion (and more particularly whether the use of that discretion was reasonable) is pretty narrow and basically boils down to Sheffield being either able to prove that the EPL's use of its discretion to only fine Spam was so unreasonable that no reasonable decision maker in the shoes of the EPL could have made it or that there was real evidence of bias in favour of Spam by the EPL. I don't think Sheffield were able or could of been able to prove either. It may be, as you say, that there have been instances in the past where these points deductions have been made and it may be the case that Sheffield drew these to the attention of the Tribunal/arbitrative panel - I don't know.

As far as the appeal to the High Court is concerned I take it that that will be an appeal per se as opposed to being a hearing "de novo" in which case the High Court will only be able to look at whether the Tribunal/arbitrative panel has made an error of law on the face of the record/award and on the grounds that the Tribunal/arbitrative panel has, in coming to its decision, not considered every thing that it should have considered or has taken into account an irrelevant consideration etc. Either way, very limited appeal rights.

The other aspect of Sheffield's appeal that has always interested me was the fact that it was only brought after the fact. Now although in my view that shouldn't have anything to do with the original EPL decision or the Tribunal/arbitrative panel's decision per se, it has always lingered in the background as the causative element triggering the appeal in the first place. The reality being, as I think that we all appeciate, that it is the critical consideration in the whole matter even though its not part of the legal proceedings per se!

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Weren't AFC Wimbledon intially 'fined' something like 18 points for playing an ineligible player - this was massively reduced on appeal however I think the final penalty was still a points deduction rather than a fine.

I think AFC Wimbledon's points deduction was reduced from 18 to 3 on appeal - but by then the damage had been done. The team had been playing so well and were on a great run, but with the threat of an 18 point deduction hanging over their head for weeks they just lost confidence and started sliding a bit. I'm sure they'd have got automatic promotion had it not been for the FA & Rymans League taking so long trying to ascertain which was their arse and which was their elbow.

And all this for a minor admin error. Bury were thrown out of the FA Cup for a similar error, which probably hit them in the pocket quite hard.

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Youlots

I am not 100% sure but I don't think the tribunal had the authority to actually over rule the Premier League's penalty, its power was limited to simply deciding whether or not there should be a revisit of the case. That, for me, was why it was always doomed to failure as (as you have said) the Premier League had an empty canvas upon which to create the penalty as there was no formal code of conduct with associated sactions for breaches. Even with precedent in place I am not convinced that this tribunal could have concluded that were, from any formal perspective, treated 'lightly'

I am 99% sure you are right about the High Court attempt - it is an appeal against the legal grounds/basis for the triibunal's decision.

The appeal itself was brought after the relegation battle was decided however talk of legal action had already been widely discussed prior to the end of the season, and not just by Sheff Utd, six or seven clubs talked about 'joining forces' in a legal claim however most of these stopped caring the moment they were safe.

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Regardless of all other irregularities surrounding United?s involvement in the Tevez saga, there are two questions the Premier League need to ask themselves before sanctioning any deal between West Ham and ManU that is along the lines of the current proposals:-

1. Why, when they outlay ?50m+ so far in the transfer market, do the Mancs not go in with a cash deal for Tevez as a priority to secure a prime target?

2.Why would any sensible West Ham negotiator want to loan out a player of Tevez?s proven class when the club could either a) keep him and play him themselves or B) sell him and (under Premier League mandate) pocket a very large sum of money?

PS. Thanks for the legal input, Youlots, most enlightening. Loz has obviously got some legal knowledge as well, but frankly I wouldn?t trust him as far as I could throw him. icon_wink.gif

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