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How special is Jose?


loz

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A manager with one of the finest CVs in world football (relative to the number of years he has been a manager for) yet 8 months after leaving Chelsea he is still without a job or a job offer it would seem.

He has made it clear there are only a few jobs he is interested in which would partially explain why he is still doing an impression of El Nino down the social however those big jobs have been speculated about and Jose's name is still not being mentioned seriously in despatches.

Barcelona have replaced Rijkaard, there were strong rumours that Inter and Real were going to replace their managers (even though Real won the league) but now it would seem both are happy with what they have.

Jose says on an article on Sky Sports that he has turned down 9 or 10 jobs from the clubs not of the stature he is interested in but maybe the truth is that the clubs of the stature he is interested in aren't interested in him. AC Milan are probably the last real major option available to him.

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We will see once the season finishes. It was never likely that he would get another job during the season. I fully expect that he will be at a top Spanish or Italian job by the start of next season.

Of the clubs you mentioned, only Barca has actually been ruled out in as much as they have got rid of Rijkaard and already replaced him. Madrid and the 2 Milan clubs are still possible.

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It seems that all the clubs he would join either don't need him at the moment or wouldn't appoint him. Milan, Barca and Real would be unlikely to accept Jose's style of football, however successful it was. Inter looks the most likely destination.

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He is DEFINITELY of to Milan (as a city), I have no doubt about that! The only question is to which club! I think he would prefer AC Milan, as that team needs a total reconstruction of the squad and that is what he wants, to structure his own team!

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I wouldn't go to AC Milan if I were Jose. When he came here he had almost a perfect team waiting for him, young and hungry. He made small things right and he was crowned champion more than once.

AC is full of old players and there are really delicate matters facing the team when players like Maldini retire. Okay there are bright stars like Kaka and maybe the team needs a proper kick in the ar*e to get back in the top again but as we all know Jose isn't a politician and I'm afraid that is something you have to be in a club like AC Milan.

If he'd have to choose between Milan teams I would go to Inter.

EDIT: And to answer the topic: For Chelsea Jose is as special as they get. He was the face of our impressive two seasons as champions.

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Why?

It would be interesting on so many levels.

I'd like to see him in English football as he's such a character, and of the top 4 clubs Liverpoo seems the only viable option. He would be a perfect fit up there and there would be no problem with his functional approach to the beautiful game.

It might also help bring to an end the ongoing grieving process for members of his Band of Jilted Lovers, which can only be a good thing.

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I think best manager we've ever had, but certainly not without "baggage".

I'm sure all the top clubs in turmoil have had a look at him, and many probably are very interested.

For Barcelona, it is clear there was too much conflict and bad blood from his Chelsea days that could not be swept under the carpet.

Real have just won another league title. They didn't do too well in the Champions League, but then Jose didn't win it with us either.

I have to agree that the most likely destination is Milan, but which club is open to debate.

If you want to gauge how special he is (as if any Chelsea fan would need to), wait and see how he does at his next club.

Cheers,

Butch

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Frankly, I think the kind of club Jose would want to go to would be one where he could demonstrate in spades the value he brings. By that I mean he would prefer to go to a sleeping giant than an established star so he could effect another Porto or Chelsea, i.e. realise the potential and stun the footie world again.

In the world of underperforming sleeping giants, you are looking at the likes of:

Liverpool

Newcastle

Paris St Germain

Marseille

Lazio

AC Milan

Any of these would need to have the ambition and the cash to attract him, and personally I also think his ego demands that he works in a capital city so as to be centre of attention.

Without knowing their current status in any great detail, my outside bets would therefore be for PSG or Lazio...

You heard it here first

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I'm with Butch on this.

I hear more and more people saying well Jose can't be that special no big club has offered him a job yet. When I hear this I think they can't follow the European scene that much football wise and the goings on at all the various clubs. I love looking at what other clubs are up to elsewhere generally, it's like a glorified soap opera really and as a girl I love it.

He himself admitted when he recently said that a major European club had offered him a job (I think it was Real) after the FA Cup final and he turned it down out of loyalty to the fans at Chelsea - four months later he gets the boot.

He left Chelsea not 2 months into the season - NO big club was going to simply get rid of their manager to accommodate him and he must have known that. Quite why people thought he would just walk into a top job at that point baffles me totally.

Jose does not want any old job, he has a sparkling CV earned in only 7 years coaching, he feels quite rightly that he should consider only a top European club and that he has earned the right to do so - and he has. I'm quite sure he has had lots of offers but probably from clubs such as Valencia, Man City, Lyon, Spurs, Athletico,Newcastle - no offence but these are not major European forces. I'm equally sure that some of the big clubs have had a look at him and probably tentatively spoken to his agent but the time isn't right for various reasons for them and also may be what they wanted to offer him was not to his liking either?

The only clubs he could be interested in are:

Real Madrid, Barca, Inter, Milan, Juve, Liverpool, Man Utd, Arsenal, Barcelona, Bayern.

Bayern employed Klinsmann and any way Jose cannot speak German so he would hardly want to go somehere he could not communicate with people, they are also a very closed shop there - they were always going to go for a German coach and Klinsmann was an obvious fresh new up and coming German candidate.

Real Madrid are content with Schuster for now, they like his project and despite making a meal of winning the league for months and going out of the CL - he'll get one more season I think but he will have to win them the CL and the league.

Barcelona - I think many of the board were keen on him and ironically the fans had grown used to the idea too but apparently they were put off by his demand for control, high wages for him and his staff and his reluctance to have Guardiola as an assistant. Laporta is very conscious of his image and Guardiola is an obvious sap to the fans "great Catalan Barca player made coach after the excesses of Rykaard" sort of approach and Laporta has to hope he's made the right decision. As for his "baggage" I don't think that is as heavy an issue as people make like to make out or the style of football. If Guardiola mucks things up I think Jose could get the job.

Milan - they have too many bosses in charge, and always hire from within - Milan people - so I never thought he was going there, he could never have the control he wants in any case.

Inter - the most likely candidate and always has been - but Mancini would have to fall out with Moratti yet again and agree to leave and it seems winning the league will probably save him for one more season. Moratti would have to sack Mancini and then hire Jose - it costs to do that.

Juve - Ranieri has got them into the CL - it would be cruel to fire him.

Liverpool - are in a mess and Rafa has managed to hide his underachievement by all the boardroom upheaval, there is no clear idea who the owners will be so that's a worry if you are a new coach, here Jose's baggage may genuinely cause issues with the fans but I think Rafa will last one more season but if he wins nothing again he'll go.

MU and Arsenal - coaches totally secure and also his style of football would not go down well there.

So really that just leaves Inter as a faint possibility but I think Mancini will stay but for next season I feel there will be alot of movement coaching wise at that point, both Real, Barca, Inter Milan, Liverpool, Juve and Bayern may well be looking for new coaches if the current incumbents have not fulfilled they job specs and surely not all of them will have done so. And then I think Jose will have quite a genuine list to choose from.

Getting a top club job is actually a long waiting game at times and at others you have about four of five places you could go - it's either one thing or another.

It's just his misfortune in my view that he has chose to be cast aside during a fallow period for top coaches jobs, it has nothing to do with whether he's good enough clearly he is - if he's smart and can cope with the boredom factor he must just keep waiting - his CV has not been tarnished in any way and as for his baggage or supposedly dull style of football well it's amazing how quickly an owner forgets about that when they are losing. icon_wink.gif

Given Grant's ascendency may be Jose should be sucking up to some Russian, Spanish or Italian billionaire who happens to own a football club during his free time as that appears the way to go now into getting very quickly.

So yes loz's point about the fact that those top clubs are not interested in him right now is true - some are not and perhaps will never be - but equally others may simply not be interested because right now they are going through their very particular cycle with the current incumbent and they don't feel the time is right to dispose of them yet.

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Why?

It would be interesting on so many levels.

I'd like to see him in English football as he's such a character, and of the top 4 clubs Liverpoo seems the only viable option. He would be a perfect fit up there and there would be no problem with his functional approach to the beautiful game.

It might also help bring to an end the ongoing grieving process for members of his Band of Jilted Lovers, which can only be a good thing.

Talking of the ongoing grieving process for members of Bands of Jilted Lovers, Liam, are you over Duffer's move yet? icon_wink.gif

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Frankly, I think the kind of club Jose would want to go to would be one where he could demonstrate in spades the value he brings. By that I mean he would prefer to go to a sleeping giant than an established star so he could effect another Porto or Chelsea, i.e. realise the potential and stun the footie world again.

In the world of underperforming sleeping giants, you are looking at the likes of:

Liverpool

Newcastle

Paris St Germain

Marseille

Lazio

AC Milan

Any of these would need to have the ambition and the cash to attract him, and personally I also think his ego demands that he works in a capital city so as to be centre of attention.

Without knowing their current status in any great detail, my outside bets would therefore be for PSG or Lazio...

You heard it here first

I totally agree with this that despite Jose wanting a top European job I actually think his talents would be better put towards a sleeping giant than at an established club.

I would have loved for him to have gone to a Newcastle actually or Lazio but it appears from his comments he's not willing to do that and although I totally get why he feels this way, I've always felt that with his personal qualities coupled with "it's us against the world lets do it!" lend themselves to a club that is underachieving more than to some great rather pompous rather stiffly formal club that's already been there and done it.

Trouble is that means no CL football and an initial knock to your ego as everyone sniggers that you were "reduced" to taking such a job when no European club came calling.

I guess it depends how bored he becomes waiting for a top job and if someone from say a smaller club came and was prepared to offer everything he needed but the trade off is that he has to accept the fact he is coaching a lesser club, less glamourous, less press focus etc.

In life we all have trade offs to make in our careers, Martin Samuel in The Times recently had a debate on exactly what loz has just asked in this thread and Martin said that the trouble with the Inter job is how do you make yourself a hero when Mancini has already won the league three times - he will surely win it next weekend? The only way he can make himself special is winning the CL and the risk is that he could well fail and winning the league again would hardly make him any more secure, there is very little room to attain hero status there with the fans. You win the league again, so what?

That's why a lesser club where you would really see the changes he could envoke and he can take the fans and players with him to greater things, I feel that would be personally much better for him - like we saw at Chelsea and Porto.

Just a shame that I don't think he's mentally wants to go there right now.

I guess that's his ego talking and telling him it's a big club or he doesn't work, seems a shame to waste your managerial talent just waiting around for a job that may take a long time to turn up, when you could be actively doing great things at a smaller club and being a hero all over again to a new set of fans.

I'll be interested in folllowing what does happen with him though, just like I enjoy wondering about what life has in store for Mr Grant in the future or how Ranieri does with Juve next year now he's in the CL.

Pity we all can't know what life has in store for us in advance.

Then again...

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Why?

It would be interesting on so many levels.

I'd like to see him in English football as he's such a character, and of the top 4 clubs Liverpoo seems the only viable option. He would be a perfect fit up there and there would be no problem with his functional approach to the beautiful game.

It might also help bring to an end the ongoing grieving process for members of his Band of Jilted Lovers, which can only be a good thing.

Talking of the ongoing grieving process for members of Bands of Jilted Lovers, Liam, are you over Duffer's move yet? icon_wink.gif

Please, one never gets over being jilted, so I doubt Liam will ever recover. 346.gif

I'm still recovering after my Portuguese dandy took his expensive designer togs and charimatic charms off to Setubal and then left me to shack up with a man who makes living with an undertaker seem like a real catch.

Last night for instance Avram regaled me with his tales of the Israeli/Palestine conflict since the Second World War to date and when I asked if he had anything else in store for that night he then got a rather wicked glint in his eye....and then treated me to a game of tiddlywinks.

Never been the same since. ball.gif

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How special is Jose?

We can't forget him, can we? And I don't think we should for what he has achieved with Chelsea.

But, I have always wondered what will happen if Avram Grant betters him by winning the Champions League. Yeah, I know this entire aquad has been assembled and kept together by Jose but the truth is, he couldn't manage European glory (Yeah, I know - due to bad kuck, bad refeereing and blah blah blah...)

I do consider Mourinho to be one of the best managers around, however, I wouldn't be surprised if after the Champions League, people start saying :

Who is the Special One now?
Avram is the new Special One.

Or cross all limits by saying...

Who needs the Special One?

And well, what I think of it : 317.gif317.gif317.gif317.gif317.gif317.gif317.gif317.gif317.gif317.gif

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That's right Kal and you just know that the usual suspects on this site are going to be itching to use that phrase because, contrary to what Liam (me old mate) et al is so fond of suggesting from time to time, the "coterie" just can't bear the thought of Jose not being in the news. And if anything this thread and the rather pedestrian sniping is, if evidence of anything, their deep attachment for Jose. They just can't admit such to themselves or anyone else for that matter. Of course it will all be put down to being a wind up or keeping the site ticking over or a genuine subject that should be up for discussion or whatever when it's really just their form of fey affectation: So no loves labours lost for them, more a case of loves labours unrequited. They will never have closure...

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How special is Jose?

But, I have always wondered what will happen if Avram Grant betters him by winning the Champions League. Yeah, I know this entire aquad has been assembled and kept together by Jose but the truth is, he couldn't manage European glory (Yeah, I know - due to bad kuck, bad refeereing and blah blah blah...)

I do consider Mourinho to be one of the best managers around, however, I wouldn't be surprised if after the Champions League, people start saying :

Who is the Special One now?

He has already tasted European glory and got the medal to prove it - just not with us. icon_wink.gif

Well papers are fairly predictable beasts so I'm quite sure that many of them will do just that if we win i.e. "who is the special one now then?" (yawn), some out of genuine appreciation for Grant's achievements which is obviously fair enough but others who always hated Mourinho will use Grant's shock achievement as a stick to beat Mourinho over the head with. I'm sure there will be lots of analysis and discussion after the game if Grant wins about where this places Grant in the patheon of great managers etc.

Roman clearly didn't need Mourinho and he's the boss but that's one club choosing a different path.

But other teams no doubt have room for someone of his very particular set of talents and if they are not scared of the force of his personality and are also tired of their current coaches then I have no doubt he will get hired at some point and Grant winning the Champions League should not diminish him in any way in terms of getting a job. To suggest that someone with his CV and obvious tactical nous is basically totally unemployable would be ridiculous.

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We've been getting the "these Chelsea fans need to get real" treatment for weeks. The obvious but extremely simplistic logic being that the continuation of the unbeaten home record, chasing Man U all the way for the title, and reaching a Champions League Final for the first time make Avram Grant a ..er world class manager? Simplistic is right. With an apparent triumvirate of Clarkey, HTC and Avram Grant running things, who really knows from here where the actual responsibilities lie? Is it Clarkey who's pulling the strings, carrying on from where he left off with Jose? Was it HTC's influence that got us to Moscow? All matters for speculation. After all this time, the thing that isn't in doubt is Avram Grant's lack of experience and lack of qualifications prior to taking over. As has been suggested, maybe he really is just a front man, with HTC and Clarkey running the show. And if that's the case, does it really matter who's seen to be in charge?

It's just another way for the media to attack the club and/or fans.

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Nice post Lofty and may be it doesn't really matter who the hell is in charge because as long as the end result is good the process of how you go there is immaterial.

The media all have their own agenda some anti Grant/pro Mourinho and vice versa and a few out there with no axe to grind either way.

Many seem to still have it in for Chelsea as a club generally and our success and seem content to belittle anyone be it Grant, Mourinho or anyone else at the club with current or past associations.

As for Jose's specialness, I think he has proved it, not only at Porto but at Chelsea which was a totally different environment from where he had come from and so many players from his past have praised him and how he works that I have no doubt that if he was put in charge of an Italian or Spanish team he would equally come good.

I just hope that he has learned from his experiences here at Chelsea especially that sometimes you need to placate rather than frustrate your bosses!

What people forget is that he's only 45 - I think he was the youngest manager ever to win the CL - now that would boost my ego no end if I'd won that trophy and won everything else he has in the period he's been managing. But he hasn't had time to learn that much about failure or having to accept disappointment too much and I think it's an acquired trait to lose with dignity and yet still absolutely hate the idea of it - Fergie springs to mind, he seems more accepting of disappointment than he used to be.

Grant is in his mid fifties and has been coaching for thirty odd years and has the air of a man more accepting of life's pitfalls and pratfalls - age does that to you and you cannot simply acquire it you have to experience it.

I think some of Mourinho's critics simply don't take his age and the speed of his trajectory into account, he's got to where he has on a very fast learning curve and you can't simply acquire experience in the same way. That's why I always let some of what he said at times be excused when I wouldn't accept it from someone with more experience as a manager.

It will not surprise me in the slightest if Grant wins the trophy next week there will be many fans and those in the media, acclaiming him as our greatest coach ever based on this one trophy and making heady comparisons to Fergie, Wenger, Benitez and yes Mourinho of course in terms of his coaching ability.

I feel that such comparisons will be ridiculous at this stage, just as ridiculous as those "fans" who boo Grant during games or imply anti Jewish propaganda using football to do it.

So in answer to the question posed of the thread, yes Jose is still special jobless or not (and it is from his own choosing lets remember) and Grant's ascendancy in no way makes me think he is any less special, there are also a number of other coaches out there who also have special (although not exactly the same qualities) which make them belong to a select breed of top quality managers, so Jose is not the only one but he surely is the most high profile coach in the world when at work. icon_lol.gif

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It will not surprise me in the slightest if Grant wins the trophy next week there will be many fans and those in the media, acclaiming him as our greatest coach ever based on this one trophy and making heady comparisons to Fergie, Wenger, Benitez and yes Mourinho of course in terms of his coaching ability.

I feel that such comparisons will be ridiculous at this stage, just as ridiculous as those "fans" who boo Grant during games or imply anti Jewish propaganda using football to do it.

Why shouldn't those comparisons be made?

Forget for a minute about the fact that Jose's Hollywood star looks and a larger than life charm and charisma make Grant look like a used car salesman by comparison.

I didn't care much for Jose's big mouth and controversial manner of running things, nor did i like the style of football he created. But the man delivered trophies and you have to respect that.

They both are in the business of results and should be judged by those. If Grant wins the CL next Wednesday he should be given full credit for the accomplishment. Anyone who questions that based on their personal dislike of a man or media gossip or one's preconceived notion of Grant as not being the 'real deal' is a hypocrite,pure and simple.

.

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Why shouldn't those comparisons be made?

Forget for a minute about the fact that Jose's Hollywood star looks and a larger than life charm and charisma make Grant look like a used car salesman by comparison.

I didn't care much for Jose's big mouth and controversial manner of running things, nor did i like the style of football he created. But the man delivered trophies and you have to respect that.

They both are in the business of results and should be judged by those. If Grant wins the CL next Wednesday he should be given full credit for the accomplishment. Anyone who questions that based on their personal dislike of a man or media gossip or one's preconceived notion of Grant as not being the 'real deal' is a hypocrite,pure and simple.

.

Well I would have thought the answer to why those comparisons shouldn't be made are obvious really for a number of reasons. I think it's unfair and not realistic to compare Grant and Mourinho. JM had three years at the club and won what seven trophies? Grant has only had barely one season as yet, to be absolutely fair he has to be assessed over more than just his time to date and he has to do achieve this success all over again with his own team not someone elses. If at the end of three seasons he's put more silverware in that cabinet than JM then we have our obvious answer - I realise that's not realistic to wait that long to start making comparisons but that is strictly speaking how it should be done for these two.

And are we really suggesting that if Grant triumphs over Ferguson next week that he is therefore based on acquiring this one trophy in charge of the best team in Europe based on our quality of football seen this season? That he is now equal in managerial nous and quality to Ferguson? Benitez? Mourinho? They would all then have on paper one big ears trophy each - so results wise which you say is the only yardstick that matters he would then be equal to them as a coach in Europe pedigree wise? Not only that he is in fact far superior to Wenger because he doesn't even have one!

Sure his stats this season are very good and if this is strictly a results business then of course he can be lauded for his achievement in winning a Champions League final - its the trophy everyone seems to want now. However, I just wonder why it's considered hypocritical to dare suggest Grant may not be such a stellar manager based on this one achievement alone and that making comparisions between him and Mourinho, Fergie, Benitez, Wenger et al about his newly acquired special status are not just a tad premature and also slightly unfair?

I'm not sure what this season under Grant proves conclusively to be honest and I don't pretend to have any inside knowledge of what's going on at Chelsea, I doubt many who post here do. But I'm just baffled as to why the failure to acknowledge Grant without question (if he wins this obviously) as being a superb coach is looked at by some as being akin to not seeing the elephant in the room.

Well I realise Grant's in the room alright but he's still managing to hide behind the sofa pretty damn well for me.

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