JT Cleared

[Dorset]

Somewhat predictably only one journalist, Martin Samuel of the Times, has come out and said that JT suffered an injustice in being sent off on Saturday, yet with equal and contrasting banality Patrick Collins of the Mail goes off in the other direction on his usual crusade against anything that might jeopardise his beloved ManU’s progress towards Premiership mid-table safety. No surprise then that the majority of the press corps deem it fit to follow his banner into the war against the cynical block that henceforth will warrant a straight red.

Just why Mike Halsey should pick this particular tackle, by this particular player, to tinker with what has usually been a yellow card offence, is unclear and I would think more than a little frustrating for the recipient of the upgraded punishment. What makes it worse, and should make it an embarrassment for Halsey, is that the old yellow rating was used only hours earlier by Howard Webb when [last man] Vidic tried to hack, rather than merely manhandle, his opponent in what was otherwise a similar circumstance.

Now I’m not trying to tell any of you what you don’t know already, but isn’t it amazing how many hackers of the journalistic kind fail to reach an obvious conclusion when reporting on these two incidents and some have even reached the point of ignoring the Vidic tackle altogether? Call me old fashioned, but could this be because Vidic got himself sent off in a separate second yellow card incident anyway and therefore the only way to somehow ’balance the books’ for next weekend’s showdown is to elevate JT’s offence above and beyond its previous status?

Halsey certainly thinks that this is the simplest short term solution, scurrying to the [unsafe] haven of 'serious foul play' in an attempt to save face over his knee jerk reaction. Long term he is going to be in serious danger of being called a hypocrite every time he fails to send off a player for doing what had previously come naturally to him, although having said that Halsey hasn’t been too bothered about looking the fool in the past so he wont be too bothered by sending off umpteen players in the future. Harsh? No harsher than his verdict on JT’s block and a crueller judgement on him might easily have been that he even looked to incite another example of Chelsea players showing disrespect by the arrogance of his actions immediately after the dismissal. Mercifully, JT and the other players did not rise to the bait, leaving Halsey to account for his unique application of the law in isolation.

Respect is a two-way street, wrote Samuel in his article, and he’s right. He also wrote that ’if it had been serious foul play - a dangerous tackle rather than a clumsy rugby grapple - there could be justification. As it was, Terry did not prevent a scoring opportunity or endanger an opponent.’ So it begins to look as though Martin might as well be talking to a brick wall, or Patrick Collins, the good it’s going to do Chelsea in terms of getting a successful appeal. Respect may well be a two-way street, but respect has to be earned through consistent decision making. At this rate it’s going to be a very short street and one that many players wont walk down for too long if they don’t really know where they are or where they are going to end up.

[Nibs]

When I saw the incident live on the stream I was watching (which was okay but not brilliant), I immediately thought "he's a gonna here". But having seen umpteen replays it was never a red card - not with the rules how they currently stand.

But we seem to have no hope of winning the appeal. Just seen that

Straight red cards cannot be downgraded to a yellow, so Chelsea will have to successfully argue that Terry did not deserve a yellow in order to succeed in the appeal.

There is no way that he didn't deserve a yellow, so it looks like we're buggered. As per usual, the rules are hopeless.

Still at least we have Alex to call upon whereas Utd haven't got such great cover for Vidic.

[Tim]

Spot on both of you and sadly Nibs, I agree that there is no way they will not view it as a yellow card offense, so Halsey has covered his back on this one.

Predictably, this has also led the anti-Chelsea brigade to redirect their Lampard hatred onto JT, with one poster on the Times messageboard claiming 'what a great example our England captain is showing once again.' Quite simply pathetic.

[midlandblue]

Do I think it was a red card, no. Do I think it was a yelow, yes.

However, I don't think we should appeal this one, it would just be another chance to rub our noses in it and increase the ban. I know it's unjust but the club should close ranks on this and take it on the chin and show the squad is united.

[andy]

I have seen a lot worse not even carded ! .. it is a no brainer to waive it but I doubt they will also.

What makes me laugh is that I have read quite a few message boards about how terry argues so much with the refs and did again on Saturday and how he feels above the law... also have some prats at work saying the same !

.. but he just doesnt and he didnt, where do they get this from ?.. in fact this is the second red card, like the one agaisnt Tottentham when yes he has questioned the decision but walked off with a lot of self restraint and dignity. He always has, he sometimes has a greivence with ref over certain things, but he is one of the better players and captains I have seen for argeing back at the ref and breaking up potential boiling points..........

Argued till I am blue in the face (no pun) but just dont know what they are all watching.

[bonetti]

Do I think it was a red card, no. Do I think it was a yelow, yes.

However, I don't think we should appeal this one, it would just be another chance to rub our noses in it and increase the ban. I know it's unjust but the club should close ranks on this and take it on the chin and show the squad is united.

Am I right in thinking that would be an increase from a 3 match ban to 4 or more?

[Jimboola69]

Stupid thing to do - Yes

Goal scoring opp - No.

Dangerous - No.

Worth a yellow - Yes.

Worth a Red - No.

[bonetti]

So we know tomorrow!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...sea/7614903.stm

[coco]

So we know tomorrow!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...sea/7614903.stm

the FA confirmed that referee Mark Halsey dismissed Terry for serious foul play. Serious foul play is classed as when a player "uses excessive force or brutality against an opponent when challenging for the ball when it is play".

The official Fifa rules continue: "Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force and endangering the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play."

Not guilty.

[Dorset]

It is obvious that Mark Halsey either does not know the full extent of the rule he has cited, has not applied it properly, or has misinterpreted it in this instance. Whatever way you look at it he has made a mistake and should really own up to the fact that he got it wrong. If this is an example of the new regime of respect, when faced with having to admit you have made an error, heaven help us when a difficult interpretation of the rules crops up.

[Backbiter]

It is obvious that Mark Halsey either does not know the full extent of the rule he has cited, has not applied it properly, or has misinterpreted it in this instance. Whatever way you look at it he has made a mistake and should really own up to the fact that he got it wrong. If this is an example of the new regime of respect, when faced with having to admit you have made an error, heaven help us when a difficult interpretation of the rules crops up.

Spot on. JT was, however, guilty of cynical play. But for serious foul play, see Guthrie of Newcastle v Hull. Same offence as JT? Mmmmmm

[TheWestwayWonder]

It is obvious that Mark Halsey either does not know the full extent of the rule he has cited, has not applied it properly, or has misinterpreted it in this instance. Whatever way you look at it he has made a mistake and should really own up to the fact that he got it wrong. If this is an example of the new regime of respect, when faced with having to admit you have made an error, heaven help us when a difficult interpretation of the rules crops up.

spot on. Four games into the new season's respect campaign and people have already turned against the officials for garbage decisions like this

[Jimboola69]

Apparently if the red is not overturned it would be a three match ban. Joey Barton recieved a Six match ban for beating the gazimbas out of a team mate leaving him needing hospital treatment.

So what JT did was 'apparently' half as bad.

Has the world gone mad?

[dkw]

Apparently if the red is not overturned it would be a three match ban. Joey Barton recieved a Six match ban for beating the gazimbas out of a team mate leaving him needing hospital treatment.

So what JT did was 'apparently' half as bad.

Has the world gone mad?

plus guthrie will only get the same as JT for trying to take a blokes legs of at the weekend. how can that be right?

[coco]

If he gets a 3 match ban for that somethings very wrong.

I will bet you that no other player gets sent of for a similar challenge all season long in the EP.

[dkw]

If he gets a 3 match ban for that somethings very wrong.

I will bet you that no other player gets sent of for a similar challenge all season long in the EP.

exactly. halsey has now set himself right up. the next time hes in the same situation and doesnt red card the culprit, he will be hammered. saying it was serious foul play was just a cop out by him as he knew he had dropped a bollock.

[Mr Chelsea]

not guilty only warranted a yellow

but i'm sure fergie will be on the phone to his best mates at the FA making sure they dont overturn it

[Maksimov]

I'm surprised no one has suggested to give Terry longer ban for trying to provoke the City fans with his 3-1 hand signals. I mean, that's gotta be just as "bad" as shushing the opposite fans, right? :lol:

[TomP]

Straight red cards cannot be downgraded to a yellow, so Chelsea will have to successfully argue that Terry did not deserve a yellow in order to succeed in the appeal.

If that is the case, then it is ridiculous, and the rule should be changed.

Exactly what SHOULD happen is for JT's red to be downgraded to a yellow.

It seems like an open and shut case to me - definately a professional foul, JT knew exactly what he was doing, and knew that the standard punishment for a professional foul (in any area of the pitch) is a yellow card.

It was definately NOT a dangerous challenge.

The only question is whether it was a direct goalscoring opportunity, and if it was, whether JT was the last man.

Given the position on the pitch, whether it was a direct goalscoring opportunity is debatable. What is not debateable is whether he is was the last man.

Obviously Halsey didn't see Carvalho behind JT when the incident occured - and that's OK, its called human error. But I am yet to see a reply that doesn't categorically confirm that JT was not the last defender.

The entire reason for the appeal system is to correct human-error mistakes made by referees, and if this is not the prime example of one, then the appeal system should be completely done away with, and we should go back to a "ref's desision is final" system.

[Ruh Buh Juh]

If that is the case, then it is ridiculous, and the rule should be changed.

Exactly what SHOULD happen is for JT's red to be downgraded to a yellow.

It seems like an open and shut case to me - definately a professional foul, JT knew exactly what he was doing, and knew that the standard punishment for a professional foul (in any area of the pitch) is a yellow card.

It was definately NOT a dangerous challenge.

The only question is whether it was a direct goalscoring opportunity, and if it was, whether JT was the last man.

Given the position on the pitch, whether it was a direct goalscoring opportunity is debatable. What is not debateable is whether he is was the last man.

Obviously Halsey didn't see Carvalho behind JT when the incident occured - and that's OK, its called human error. But I am yet to see a reply that doesn't categorically confirm that JT was not the last defender.

The entire reason for the appeal system is to correct human-error mistakes made by referees, and if this is not the prime example of one, then the appeal system should be completely done away with, and we should go back to a "ref's desision is final" system.

Halsey has stated JT was not sent off for denying a goalscoring opportunity, but for serious foul play, so the 'last man' point is not relevant to the appeal.

JT wasn't guilty of either offence and therefore shouldn't have been sent off, so the appeals panel should overturn the card and free him to play v Manure.

But they won't.

There's a real eye-opener of an article on Halsey's track-record with us:

http://www.chelsea.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=509844

He's right up there with Poll and Elleray as far as anti-CFC refs go.

Edited September 15, 2008 by Ruh Buh Juh

[TomP]

Halsey has stated JT was not sent off for denying a goalscoring opportunity, but for serious foul play,

Well going by this: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdevelopi...ounduct_557.pdf

The definition of "Serious Foul Play" is:

"A player is guilty of serious foul play if he uses excessive force or brutality against an opponent when challenging for the ball when it is in play"

"Using excessive force means that the player has far exceeded the necessary use of force and is in danger of injuring his opponent"

"Any player who lunges at an opponent when challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force and endangering the safety of an opponent, is guilty of serious foul play"

I can't see how any of those three can be applied to JT's challenge. If he had hacked him down, with the risk of injuring him, then it would be a different matter, but all JT did was a glorified shirt-pull.

Interestingly, Hasley would have been better of deeming JT's challenge to be "violent conduct" rather than "dangerous play" as that covers incidents when the offending player is not challenging for the ball (JT wasn't).

[Killbill]

But we seem to have no hope of winning the appeal. Just seen that

Straight red cards cannot be downgraded to a yellow, so Chelsea will have to successfully argue that Terry did not deserve a yellow in order to succeed in the appeal.

Why do we have to prove that he did not deserve a yellow card when we appealing against a red card? Surely, we need to prove that he didn’t deserve a red card.

[Backbiter]

Why do we have to prove that he did not deserve a yellow card when we appealing against a red card? Surely, we need to prove that he didn’t deserve a red card.

What I've read is that a red card cannot - for no valid reason that I can think of - be downgraded to a yellow. It's either upheld or rescinded.

So JT faces a 3-match ban for a challenge that wasn't worthy of a red and was not 'serious foul play' - which was what it was given for - because the FA's rules don't allow for the red to be downgraded to a yellow, even though he's not guilty of the charge.

Vidic on the other hand gets a one-match ban for two challenges both of which could have earned him a red.

[Bridgeboy]

I find it quite pathetic the way everyone jumps on the 'We hate JT and CFC bandwagon' , I thought with the arrival of Man City's new money we would be pushed to the sidelines in this particular area but as of course we are the strongest team to possibly ever exist in the EPL and English top division this is just not going to happen. I think that everyone was hoping for the first stepping stone to our demise as a football club with a beating at the hands of Man city the new kid in town....sad for them it did not happen but rather much the opposite.

The amount of bias and pathetic comments I have read in forums over the past 3 days is disgusting and so so so immature and pathetic. I would never go to the extent of writing the same comment, nay long speech in over 6 separate forums as 1 manc fan has done. I mean how sad are these people ?? The answer is very sad and very scared. I liken this situation to the same as Lewis Hamilton finds himself in at the moment. The FIA are so scared of this guy and his talent that they try to find every opportunity to put him down and slow his improving form which by the start of next season will be on a par with schumacher if not better. Everyone knows that now we have a f'ing good manager again and a strong base squad which is frighteningly unstoppable at the best of times and top 3 in the world at worst. They have also lost the opportunity to talk sh8it about how much money we spend so they are now on to something else and if that fails I can assure you they will find something else to try and degrade us.

I think we need to ignore this bullsh*t bias that we have had over the last 4/5 seasons and just get on with the job, lose JT for the next 3 matches ? so f'ing what we will show them we are not a one man shi88tty plastic team like the mancs !

Let me just remind you who we have to raplce the great one....Riccy, Alex and Invanovic, you name me one other club team in the entire world who has back up like this !

KEEP THE BLUE FLAG FLYING HIGH COME ON THE CHELSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[jack h]

We won the appeal!!!!! the FA has some sense!!!