HazardousChoice

I love Timo. I appreciate his work ethic and he obviously showed much more talent in his Leipzig days than the crappy 4 goal a season Winger we bought from the Bundesliga. So I wouldn't entertain selling him until we clear the deadwood from the attack. There's much worse than Timo here and losing Timo means they'll get more minutes. But he hasn't worked out and unlike some of our other options there are clubs that will actually want him. He's a proven elite Bundesliga goal scorer so teams in Germany will always take a punt on him at some price. If we can use him to obtain some Gvavidol cheaper or recoup a decent amount of the fee we paid he can go but we absolutely need new attacking players. It's a shame because Timo is one of the extremely few signings we made under Marina were we didn't badly get ripped off on the fee. Beating Liverpool to Timo and getting a 23 year old 30+ goal a season player for less than 50m looked good business but sometimes it just doesn't work. But i'd be very very surprised if Timo didn't outperform the rest of our attackers at their next clubs.

Boehly is a pauper. His Daddy at clearlake needs to give him the purse strings in the last few weeks of the window.

Kilman would be at best 6th choice here. Bang average player. The only reason we'd even consider him is there's no chance of Barca or any other big club coming in to gazump us.

Probably be hijacked by Barca.

Liverpool are an absolute dot in terms of club size compared to Barca. The 2 Spanish giants are both far above any club in England. Madrid took Ronaldo off United while United were the best team in the world and Madrid were struggling to compete in their league. Unfortunately their pull is unmatched. Unless Barca go bust they and Madrid will always be the dream destination of most players.

Robinho vibes.

But we have a shortage of attackers that can actually control the ball.

If we could we would. We couldn't give half of then away on frees with their wages. If we could get offers for our attackers most of them would already be gone.

This is exactly my point. There was a myth at some point last season that he was a decent finisher despite averaging 4 goals a season and underscoring his XG every season. He's genuinely not good at anything. It's rare to find a Winger at this level that is a poor dribbler, a poor finisher, a poor passer and has no workrate. Is pathetically weak and has Low intelligence on the pitch. He's not even quick anymore. Usually there's 1 kind of special quality or trick that got them to this level. But we all know the 1 special quality that got Pulisic to this club has nothing to do with anything he's ever offered on the pitch. The flames are burning. The reason Havertz gets a pass from a lot of us despite being largely disappointing is that he isn't as offensively bad as our other options. There's actually talent there to work with.

I've never got the few people who say Pulisic was good in his 1st season here. I feel those people are focusing solely on his very un Pulisic like post lockdown purple patch and the buzz that generated and not the season on the whole. We played 29 league games prior to lockdown. Over 75% of the season and Pulisic had been absolutely dreadful. He'd scored in 3 different games, all 3 coming in a 2 week period. Had 2 assists and had spent most of the season looking so bad we offered Willian a 2 year contract because he was clearly a level above Pulisic all season. I don't rate most of our forward options but Pulisic has just as much trouble stringing 2 decent performances together as CHO, Ziyech and Werner.

Pulisic so bad you had to name him twice?

I agree with that. Neither are good enough for us. I don't think anyone would actually argue Werner is. or anyone outside of America would argue that Pulisic is.

I get anyone who actually rates Pulisic is ignoring reality usually in favour of patriotic bias but Werner had 12 goals last season and 11 this season so I'm not sure what you're missing. I'm not even defending Timo I don't rate him highly and I think most can accept he isn't good enough and he hasn't scored enough goals for us. But the idea of an Pulisic as a potentially a great player despite his entire club career being a testament to the opposite is absurd and I have no idea why his compatriots can't accept it. He's a Hugo Rodellega or a Charles Nzogbia type talent but he's clearly not talented enough for a top club. I'd take that bet, I'm optimistic we'll sell Pulisic and Werner this summer. I could see Timo hitting big numbers back in Germany cause he's shown he can do it. I don't see Pulisic being a starter at any club in a top 5 European league.

You need to go outside mate. I'm not glued to the forum. I'm happy to answer your question :) Pulisic has scored more than Timo for us because he's played another season. Werner has scored 23 goals for us in 2 seasons. Pulisic has scored 25 in 3. Not the argument you want to make. You don't want to mention big games either as Pulisic has missed chance after chance in big games. Against Real in the CL this season, the FA cup final against Liverpool. A huge miss in the CL final when out through 1 vs 1 against City Fun fact for you - In Timo's lowest goal scoring season for us he scored 11 goals (his lowest in 6 seasons) which is equal to the highest number of goals Pulisic has scored in any season in his career.

That's very relevant when we're spending 58m and paying a ludicrous salary for a player. It's even more relevant when you're criticising Tuchel for not getting the best out of players. The fact that no manager has managed to get a decent set of performances out of Pulisic should tell you it isn't Tuchel that is the problem. The talent just isnt there to work with. Every attacking player scores hatfuls in the Bundesliga. It's the most open league in Europe. Every attacking player aside from Pulisic anyway. I'm not absolving Werner of criticism. I don't think he's good enough and should be moved on if possible however he was at least signed based on his ability and performances at Leipzig and not solely on his nationality and commerical hype. Timo is also a far better player, can reliably stay fit and and works much harder on the pitch. Both lack talent but only 1 lacks workrate. And when you're one of the least talented players in the squad you better have a god damn high workrate.

If we could get back what we paid I think most would snatch at it. I've never rated Havertz as highly as most. He's obviously extremely talented. But having watched him at Leverkuzem I've never got the generational talent hype. I don't think he's an absolute top talent he just doesn't have that something special despite being a very classy operator.

I don't hate Pulisic or any of our players I do however think Pulisic is by far the worst of our attackers and importantly the only one that has never looked good at any point in his career. I can understand persisting with Havertz because he showed such a high level at Leverkusen or hoping Ziyech and Werner could translate the quality they showed in their previous leagues to the Premier league even if I don't expect them to come good. Pulisic has literally never had a good season in his career. He's played 7 seasons. Expecting a player that has been poor for his entire 7 season career to be an asset in his 8th season is an absurd level of delusion way beyond optimism. As Tuchel said the players haven't changed why would the problems be gone? Not one manager or system in 2 different leagues has managed to get more than 4/5 good performances a season out of Pulisic. Blaming Tuchel when he inherited such dross is madness.

The only way to salvage something from this tour and prevent it from being a complete waste of time is to take Pulisics passport off him and leave him in Orlando. We also really whould be stripping Dave of the captaincy. Having a captain that wants to leave is a terrible situation for the squad and sends the wrong message to everyone else. Give it Silva or Jorginho.

I'm not sure why you've included Xhaka there and excluded Jesus. But I'd take every single one of those Arsenal players over Pulisic and Ziyech. Havetz and Werner haven't shown much in the Premier league either. Only Sterling and Mount have consistently shown they belong at this level. Our players aren't as good as you think they are. We absolutely do not have the attacking players to achieve any consistent league success or even Mount a title challenge.

I'd be more willing to blame the system if Tuchel hadn't coached fantastic attacking performances and had multiple attackers at all his previous clubs playing the best football of their careers. Given none of our attackers aside from Mount and Sterling have ever performed in the Premier league (and Mount has gone from strength to strength under Tuchel) I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt over someone like Pulisic who has looked sh*t for most his career in 2 different leagues and multiple managers. No system will make Pulisic, Ziyech or Werner good enough for this level.

That would be a lot more comforting if Pulisic and Werner didn't make Raphina look like Ronaldinho. Hard to take pride in Barca sabotaging their future when taking our targets leaves us stuck with such dross.

That was the only reason we signed him in the 1st place.

We're playing an attacking player who has been abysmal for all 7 seasons of his career in 2 different leagues And We're supposed to be surprised the attack looks poor? It isn't 8th time lucky it's insanity. Pulisic, Ziyech and Werner will never be good enough. The talent has never been there for the highest level. This can only be fixed in the market.

You really see the contrast between a genuine top talent like Saka and the guys in our squad people keep pretending are young talented players despite having 7 seasons in the top flight and having played 242 games while looking abysmal in almost all of them. Our players are nowhere near as talented as some think and without at least 2 new attacking players we'll struggle this season.