Firstly can i say i dont really get any pleasure in singling out a Chelsea player, but i think in this case is certainly worth a debate, particularly with a player that seems to have so many fans and yet so many detractors ?

In the last few games , Liverpool, Villa (even though we lost), Madrid, Blackburn and Bolton can it be any coincidence that we have played some nice, quick, one touch football with players seemingly willing to move around and run freely without this man slowing things down?

I wonder if people are now coming round to the fact that this man is not actually all that after all. Ive always thought it only took him to hold a player off and then pass the ball sideways to Ballack before people started saying 'he dedicated play' etc but i think its now quite clear that when he does play he is a hindrance. Or is it just me ?

Im ok with him up against a team not willing to commit players forward and without a free runner (Fulham away a good example) but its surely clear now that we look such a more fluid and dangerous outfit without Jon Obi Mikel in the team.

Am i being harsh, or are we really better without Jokanovic? Because to me thats what he is - Joka incarnated.

Answers on a postcard to Carlo, SW6.

Edited October 29, 200915 yr by bjd

I don't think we were outstanding against Athletico. Blackburn (i didn't see Bolton) is the game which we played fantastic football and imo it's down to the return of Joey Cole rather than the absence of Mikel

I also don't think slowing the game down is a concept Mikel arrived at himself. I'd imagine it's a tactic that has been asked of him over the years

Essien has been outstanding in driving the team forward from DM so I definitely don't want to see Mikel return to that position

He is very good on the ball and an excellent passer so I would like to see him in a midfield with Essien at DM, Lamps beside him and Joey Cole at the tip. He deserves a chance to show how effective he can be further forward.

Imo he will be one of the best in a couple of years time

I don't think we were outstanding against Athletico. Blackburn (i didn't see Bolton) is the game which we played fantastic football and imo it's down to the return of Joey Cole rather than the absence of Mikel

I also don't think slowing the game down is a concept Mikel arrived at himself. I'd imagine it's a tactic that has been asked of him over the years

Essien has been outstanding in driving the team forward from DM so I definitely don't want to see Mikel return to that position

He is very good on the ball and an excellent passer so I would like to see him in a midfield with Essien at DM, Lamps beside him and Joey Cole at the tip. He deserves a chance to show how effective he can be further forward.

Imo he will be one of the best in a couple of years time

I agree.

I think the holding role is best rotated between Ballack and Essien

Edited October 29, 200915 yr by BLUENUT

I don't think we were outstanding against Athletico. Blackburn (i didn't see Bolton) is the game which we played fantastic football and imo it's down to the return of Joey Cole rather than the absence of Mikel

I also don't think slowing the game down is a concept Mikel arrived at himself. I'd imagine it's a tactic that has been asked of him over the years

Essien has been outstanding in driving the team forward from DM so I definitely don't want to see Mikel return to that position

He is very good on the ball and an excellent passer so I would like to see him in a midfield with Essien at DM, Lamps beside him and Joey Cole at the tip. He deserves a chance to show how effective he can be further forward.

Imo he will be one of the best in a couple of years time

I agree too.

maybe a bit slow but a a good player none the less, still behind essien though and probably behind ballack

I don't think we were outstanding against Athletico. Blackburn (i didn't see Bolton) is the game which we played fantastic football and imo it's down to the return of Joey Cole rather than the absence of Mikel

I also don't think slowing the game down is a concept Mikel arrived at himself. I'd imagine it's a tactic that has been asked of him over the years

Essien has been outstanding in driving the team forward from DM so I definitely don't want to see Mikel return to that position

He is very good on the ball and an excellent passer so I would like to see him in a midfield with Essien at DM, Lamps beside him and Joey Cole at the tip. He deserves a chance to show how effective he can be further forward.

Imo he will be one of the best in a couple of years time

I didnt say we were outstanding in those games, i simply said the football was better and more fluid, that i honestly believe is down the absence of Mikel.

I also do have to disagree on the point highlighted, i think he cant help but slow the game down, he never seems to have any urgency or more to the point to be capable of any urgency. Perhaps unless it means giving away free kicks in dangerous areas.

And as for his 'being one of the best in a couple of years', Wasnt that said a few years ago ? You say his passing is good but only over 10-15 yards surely ? Normally sideways passes as well. Has he improved or come on at all since 2006 ? In that respect can i ask what you think he will be one of the best at exactly ? There is after all no evidence so far at all to suspect he will be more useful going forward.

Edited October 29, 200915 yr by bjd

Mikel is simply not ready for a regular first team place. He is very pedestrian in his play, his passing is short range only and his shooting is on a par with Makelele (and thats the only comparison) his strength is his strength (if you know what I mean) but at present we dont need that kind of player as we have Lamps Ballack and Essien to provide everything required of a total midfield department.

Those who are saying he will blossom in the future may be a little blinded by the fact that he is "our" player. All though I'm not saying he will eventually turn into a good player, I just cant see it yet and what little faith I have in his ability is draining by the day.

I didnt say we were outstanding in those games, i simply said the football was better and more fluid, that i honestly believe is down the absence of Mikel.

what i meant was that i didn't think we were overly fluid in those games. blackburn was the only one i was really impressed with

for me it was joey's skill and energy that made us more fluid. deco and lampard aren't known for their direct play but with joey in the hole he was trying clever backheels and mixed it with some direct running and pretty much being all round fantastic

And as for his 'being one of the best in a couple of years', Wasnt that said a few years ago ? You say his passing is good but only over 10-15 yards surely ? Normally sideways passes as well. Has he improved or come on at all since 2006 ? In that respect can i ask what you think he will be one of the best at exactly ? There is after all no evidence so far at all to suspect he will be more useful going forward.

that comes with the territory of the DM position. how many defence splitting passes has essien supplied us with this season? i think mikel has shown ability when the occasion (rarely) presents itself

his shooting has been a lot less erratic this season when he has had a pop. definitely the area he needs to work on but imo he is close to having all the same qualities as lampard

Mikel is simply not ready for a regular first team place. He is very pedestrian in his play, his passing is short range only and his shooting is on a par with Makelele (and thats the only comparison) his strength is his strength (if you know what I mean) but at present we dont need that kind of player as we have Lamps Ballack and Essien to provide everything required of a total midfield department.

Those who are saying he will blossom in the future may be a little blinded by the fact that he is "our" player. All though I'm not saying he will eventually turn into a good player, I just cant see it yet and what little faith I have in his ability is draining by the day.

f*ck me - sexelk has 2 people agreeing with him

f*ck me - sexelk has 2 people agreeing with him

i knew this day would come

Mikel is simply not ready for a regular first team place. He is very pedestrian in his play, his passing is short range only and his shooting is on a par with Makelele (and thats the only comparison) his strength is his strength (if you know what I mean) but at present we dont need that kind of player as we have Lamps Ballack and Essien to provide everything required of a total midfield department.

Those who are saying he will blossom in the future may be a little blinded by the fact that he is "our" player. All though I'm not saying he will eventually turn into a good player, I just cant see it yet and what little faith I have in his ability is draining by the day.

Very well summed up MB.

I agree with bjd and have maintained for a while now that on the whole, Mikel flatters to decieve. We look a MUCH better side without him and although I think he's a handy squad player, he does not merit a place in the starting 11 - his all round game just doesn't offer us enough.

Edited October 29, 200915 yr by Nibs

Interesting set of replies to your post Bjd. You have been consistent in your views on Mikel, as have one or 2 others, but exactly 1 year ago the general mood was different:

http://www.theshedend.com/index.php?showtopic=9431

Edit to add: That thread also has some posts from Star. Weird, as we were on a good run at the time.

Edited October 29, 200915 yr by Liam

Essien is simply a better player than Mikel.

Essien is simply a better player than Mikel.

They are very different, that's all, and you must consider the age difference, Ess is in his prime, Mikel is still learning, and improved alot last season.

Essien is simply a better player than Mikel.

Essien is simply a better player than most people.

He is easily our best midfielder so far this season.

I had a lot of hope for Mikel, this time last year he seemed to be looking every bit what I hoped he would become when Maka left us..

I have to say though he has frustarted me since and I have found myself shouting at him to quicken the play and pass forward and do think he struggles when a man is played on him.

It's another one of the scenarios where he could well come back in and show something a bit different as I don't think he has had a fair crack in Ancelottis Chelsea to give up hope yet,

it wasn't long ago Ballack seemed surplus to requirements and some even thought Mourinho was hard done by when him and Sheva were forced upon him but we have seen him become an integral part of the team and one we actually miss when he's absent.

all that said I feel its a good thread and it will be interesting to bring it up again later in the season and see how young Obi has faired.

I would agree with the statements on our fluidity as a team. You can hardly argue with the recent run of form we have had, but if Ballack and Essien can stay fit and continue to share that role in midfield, we will be better for it for now. Both of them have many more facets and maturity to their game, which of course a youngster like Mikel is still working on. I dont know if its reason to consider his future, but right now it aint broke so there should be no fixin it.

I think the means by which Mikel became our player might be part of the reason he has been thrown into the first team a little more forcefully than the avg youngster at the club. As last year demonstrated, he has been able to do whats required of him, so clearly he is headed places in future. But that might be a reason so many are divided in their opinions over him.

I also think not every game is going to be a walkover, and that we are going to face a few pitched midfield battles against the big boys where Mikel could prove critical

I would agree with the statements on our fluidity as a team. You can hardly argue with the recent run of form we have had, but if Ballack and Essien can stay fit and continue to share that role in midfield, we will be better for it for now. Both of them have many more facets and maturity to their game, which of course a youngster like Mikel is still working on. I dont know if its reason to consider his future, but right now it aint broke so there should be no fixin it.

I think the means by which Mikel became our player might be part of the reason he has been thrown into the first team a little more forcefully than the avg youngster at the club. As last year demonstrated, he has been able to do whats required of him, so clearly he is headed places in future. But that might be a reason so many are divided in their opinions over him.

I also think not every game is going to be a walkover, and that we are going to face a few pitched midfield battles against the big boys where Mikel could prove critical

I actually think thats a very fair point Westway. Bearing in mind the long and drawn out saga he was always going to struggle to live up to what was expected.

Worth bearing in mind thinking about Gael Katuka too - the situation needs to be managed carefully.

i agree with westway in that he was thrown in the deep end really, anyone after maka was always going to lose in comparison. i also dont really think thats his position, so not only has he had to learn a new game in a new country, a new style of play but hes also had to try and learn a new position in the most physical league in europe. i think the difficulty now is deciding what to do with him. do chelsea scrap the experiment of him being a DM and play him more in the role lampard is playing, or persevere hoping he will grow into the position. hes obviously a massively talented footballer, but will he fall into the trap of being to much of a utility player and never really making a position his own.

i agree with westway in that he was thrown in the deep end really, anyone after maka was always going to lose in comparison. i also dont really think thats his position, so not only has he had to learn a new game in a new country, a new style of play but hes also had to try and learn a new position in the most physical league in europe. i think the difficulty now is deciding what to do with him. do chelsea scrap the experiment of him being a DM and play him more in the role lampard is playing, or persevere hoping he will grow into the position. hes obviously a massively talented footballer, but will he fall into the trap of being to much of a utility player and never really making a position his own.

Was he bought with replacing Maka in mind though ? remember we had Diarra at the time too (imo twice the player)

But i agree if he isnt careful he is not going to find his rightful position and end up being a square peg all his career. I simply dont see a role further forward in a more attacking role, because i simply havent seen anything in his game that suggests this would work.

I dont want people to think im launching an all out jihad on the lad i just think he is an interesting subject and one worth debating (as the replies on here testify)

i say sell him to jose in jan

Was he bought with replacing Maka in mind though ? remember we had Diarra at the time too (imo twice the player)

But i agree if he isnt careful he is not going to find his rightful position and end up being a square peg all his career. I simply dont see a role further forward in a more attacking role, because i simply havent seen anything in his game that suggests this would work.

I dont want people to think im launching an all out jihad on the lad i just think he is an interesting subject and one worth debating (as the replies on here testify)

i say sell him to jose in jan

i dont think he was brought in to play the DM role, i think he sort of ended up in it out of necessity at the time and decided he wanted to make it his own. i agree with you on him playing further forward, he just doesnt look like hes able to play an attacking role. if anything he should really try and learn from ballack as he seems the ideal kind of player to base himself on. neither totally defensive or totally attacking, but able to do both equally well.

kudos on the sneaky last sentence, you sneaky sod... :D

Edited October 29, 200915 yr by dkw

Essien is simply a better player than most people.

He is easily our best midfielder so far this season.

Essien in this season is superb!!!

I have never "got" Mikel and the only thing that makes me doubt my opinion has always been that so many of you do. Certainly I have rarely seen evidence on a football pitch to make me change my mind. I also don't think he made progress last season, in fact I think he went backwards.

I hope I'm wrong as he is a likeable lad and is committed to a long-term contract at the club. But I don't see him making the grade at Chelsea and expect to see him at the likes of Sunderland within 3 years.

Mikel has extremely quick feet and would actually probably fit into the Arsenal way of playing in a Vieira type role (minus the goal threat). I think we've wasted him as a defensive midfielder and sadly have never found the ideal position for him.

I think people are being very harsh on the guy to be honest...is he the finished article? No. Is he a waste of space? I wouldn't say that either...I would argue he's a more natural holding midfielder than Essien, but the latter is better at providing an attacking edge to our game...but as well as essien has played this season, he isn't flawless either when he players there. He can disappear from in front of the back four four when he surges forward, which leaves them more exposed, and in some games this season his passing has been as poor as anyone's...I actually think we have the perfect combo between the two...I would prefer essien to play there when we're playing weaker teams, especially at home and we need to break teams down...but I would still advocate Mikel for when we need to be more defensive...he has the positional sense and the physique to compete with opposition midfielders and attackers...I agree that he should have progressed a bit more since last season, particularly with his passing, but he has been injured lately and not had much of a chance to really make his mark in ancelotti's system