Period of Transition

[fester]

I think that this season and next season are going to see the Chelsea first choice starting eleven undergo fairly major surgery. This is a process that is clearly already underway, starting with the players we let go in the summer and the introduction of the youth players into the first team squad. Looking back at last season the first choice starting eleven for most of the season was (with ages as of 30th June 2010)

Cech (28); Ivan (26); Alex (28); JT (29); Ash (29); Mikel (23); Lamps (32); Ballack (33); Malouda (30); Drogba (32); Anelka (31)

Ok, so Essien (27) and Bosingwa (28) may have featured if they hadn't been injured.

So where do we need to get to for the start of the 2012/13 season? What have we got and where do we need to strengthen? Ages given are ages at the start of the 2012/13 season.

Goalkeeper: I've not got too many worries here, despite our current lack of strength in depth. Cech will be 30 at the start of the 2012/13 season so may well still be number one. Other than that Rhys Taylor (22) is doing well on-loan at Crewe and we have Delac (20) and Sebek (21) to bring into the equation as well.

RB: I'm assuming Ivan will be playing CB in 2012/13. Bosingwa will be 30 then so could well still be first choice. We have Chalobah who seems an excellent prospect, but will still only be 17 at the start of the 2012/13 season. There is also Billy Clifford (21), but I don't know much about him. Could be an area that needs strengthening.

CB: First choice centre back partnership of Ivan (28) and Bruma (20). Alex (30) and JT (31) could still be on the scene too, plus Danial Pappoe (18)who looked good alongside Bruma in the FA youth cup run last year.

LB: Ash at 31 could still be doing a job, but will be being pressed hard by Van Aanholt (22) and Bertrand (23) plus Ben Gordon (21). What's Zhirkov (29) going to do?

Midfield: Essien (29); Mikel (25) and Ramires (25) will still be on the scene, and from what we're seeing at the moment McEachran (19) will just be starting to impose himself. Also in the mix will be Jack Cork (23), Philliskirk (21), Conor Clifford (20) and Mellis (21). What is going to happen to Matic (24)?

Attack, attack, attack, attack attack: Which one of Kalou (25), Sturridge (22) and Borini (21) are really going to step up to the mark? Malouda (32) could still be doing a job as a supporting striker, other that that it's up to the young guns Kakuta (21), Gokhan Tore (20), Mitrovic (20),... A little unclear what's going to happen in this area.

Given all that here's my stab at the starting line-up for the 2012/13 season and I'm thinking 4-2-3-1 formation:

Cech (30); Bosingwa (30); Ivan (28); Bruma (20); Van Aanholt (22); Mikel (25); Ramires (25); Essien (30 - Capt); McEachran (19); Kakuta (21); Sturridge (22).

Subs: Dalac (20 GK); Chalobah (17); Jack Cork (23); Gokhan Tore (20); Mitrovic (20); Bertrand (23); Malouda (32).

I started that off with looking at where we need to strengthen, but whilst acknowledging we could be a bit weak up top (can Sturridge make the grade?) and lack depth of cover at right back, that's quite an exciting prospect in my eyes. Probably a bit harsh putting JT (31) and Alex (30) out to grass but you have to make tough decisions at times. Also that team is free-of-cost as they as all on the books already.

What to you lots think?

[Cam]

I think you're writing off the older players too much....I think it's very possible the centre backs will still be Alex and Terry, even if their games have deteriorated a bit. Ashley Cole in the same boat. Drogba is still as fit as anyone in the league, and unless he gets a serious injury, I see him still being damaging in a couple of seasons.

The team you suggested:

Cech (30); Bosingwa (30); Ivan (28); Bruma (20); Van Aanholt (22); Mikel (25); Ramires (25); Essien (30 - Capt); McEachran (19); Kakuta (21); Sturridge (22).

Subs: Dalac (20 GK); Chalobah (17); Jack Cork (23); Gokhan Tore (20); Mitrovic (20); Bertrand (23); Malouda (32).

is ridiculously young....unless all of the young players prove to be top EPL players (which is unlikely), there's no way there will such a dramatic shift. The midfield is the only area of the pitch that I think is likely...but don't know whether Frank would have retired or anything by then (if he hasn't, I imagine he'd still have a squad role like Giggs or Scholes). Cech will be the keeper unless he gets more injuries or has a serious fall in ability...and Delac is possibly the most capable youngster, but I wouldn't be surprised if we did bring in someone like Begovic.

Bosingwa will probably be RB...if he gets over his injury problems....I honestly think Chalobah will be a superstar player in the future. What he's already acheived is brilliant, and he should make it early on in his career if he keeps going, but if Bosingwa is not there, I don't think he'll be a regular starter...so RB is an issue if Bossy doesn't get back to his best. Ivan could well be CB, Bruma, certainly on the bench, but as I said, I think Alex and or Terry would still be there. Cole should still have LB, unless he is sold or injured...I think only one of PVA and Bertrand would be in the squad....neither deserve to be stuck behind the other, and Cole. I would guess PVA is more likely to be there.

McEachran certainly looks capable of breaking into a permanent first team spot early on...but I would imagine he'd be in the centre of the park...vying with Ramires for a spot (though anything can happen in that time). Hopefully Essien stays fit, and he'd certainly be a leader of the team (possibly a vice captain depending on who remains). Mikel should have really solidified his game and his importance by that stage. I have doubts Cork and Matic would be in the squad.

I think in the current squad, Kalou is most likely going to get either a wide forward berth, or the central spot (if Drogba has indeed left). If Zhirkov hasn't left seeking first team football, and Malouda has become incapable of doing the job (which I doubt to be honest), Zhirkov may well fit in wide left. Sturridge and Kakuta may fill a void of Anelka on the right (if he's gone).

I think realistically, we will lose a number of our talented younger players, because they won't be patient enough to wait away the old fellas...so unless they are prodigously talented, or thrust into the limelight (and take their chances) with injuries to a thinner squad, they may not prove themselves in time.

And undoubtedly, there will be more signings...not sure who...big names? Perhaps one or two, but unlikely given what's been said. More likely squad players...probably a mix of experience and younger players who will pad the squad out in the event of retirements or sales. But looking at our current squad, I can't say with 100% certainty that any of the players will have retired, so I think your time frame is an akward one, where the players may be on the cusp of retirement for another year or two after that.

[blizeH]

I think you raise a lot of good points and it is an interesting analysis for sure, but like you mentioned leaving players like Cole, Terry, Alex, Malouda etc out in two years is pretty crazy to me. All of those players will be a year (or more!) younger than Drogba is now, it'd be really, really ridiculous to write off players over the age of 30 IMO.

[ethicalstrategy]

You know Frank will still be a starter and popping his regulation 20 goals!

Seriously though, if we get that many of our current youngsters in to the team whilst still maintaining our position at the top of the league it will be a miracle. Realistically, getting two or three as regular starters would be fantastic.

I think we will see some player coming in to aid the transition as well.

[Cam]

Yeah, the one point I forgot to mention in my response was that, in a team like that suggested by the opening poster, we wouldn't be in a position to win titles....we'd become Arsenal...a couple of seasons ago...and no-one wants that.

[fester]

I'll include the team to help with reference...

Given all that here's my stab at the starting line-up for the 2012/13 season and I'm thinking 4-2-3-1 formation:

Cech (30); Bosingwa (30); Ivan (28); Bruma (20); Van Aanholt (22); Mikel (25); Ramires (25); Essien (30 - Capt); McEachran (19); Kakuta (21); Sturridge (22).

Subs: Dalac (20 GK); Chalobah (17); Jack Cork (23); Gokhan Tore (20); Mitrovic (20); Bertrand (23); Malouda (32).

Yeah, the one point I forgot to mention in my response was that, in a team like that suggested by the opening poster, we wouldn't be in a position to win titles....we'd become Arsenal...a couple of seasons ago...and no-one wants that.

Other than the question marks over Sturridge is that team so weak? A centre midfleld of Mikel, Ramires and Essien looks pretty damn good to me. Yes, you could include Ash for Van Aanholt, however, if Kakuta and McEachran are the talents we hope they will be then they should be regulars in two years time. I think JT's body is starting to feel the effects now and suspect it will only get worse in the next few years, and remember Bruma is already a Dutch full international and the same applies to him as Kakuta & McEachran. OK, so you might put more "experience" of the bench, but you also need dynamism on the bench as can be supplied by Tore. I think you are being too conservative and believe there is as much risk staying with the established players too long as there is with going with the potential.

[Cam]

I am a firm believer in introducing youth into the team...but doing it in one big swoop never works. They still need a good base of experience and youth to be effective.

If that team is a feasible blueprint for the future, it will be on the back of those young players getting consistent gametime, which given the experienced players ahead of them, seems unlikely. As promising as some of the youngsters at Chelsea are, I certainly can't say with absolute confidence, that in 2 years, they will be in a position to lead Chelsea to victory, nor am I willing to give the experienced heads at Chelsea such a close use-by date.

I already mentioned that I believe the midfield three is a very possible, and nice looking possibility....up front is the biggest concern. I don't know what formation you suggested but Kakuta and Sturridge in attack (and I think you have Josh there too) is simply made up with players of promise...and we all know promise doesn't guarantee top level longevity.

[sizzler85]

Very interesting thread here .. Nice to join in ...

Guys , how good a player is Gokhan Tore ? I read about him in report on youth matches in our official site but nothing more than that .

And also other than Kakuta , McEachran , Bruma etc., ( those already made first team debut ) , which youth player will make it big in the future ?

[Hutch]

Very interesting thread here .. Nice to join in ...

Guys , how good a player is Gokhan Tore ? I read about him in report on youth matches in our official site but nothing more than that .

And also other than Kakuta , McEachran , Bruma etc., ( those already made first team debut ) , which youth player will make it big in the future ?

That's an almost impossible question to answer. Gokhan Tore looks excellent for the reserves, and on his return from injury Borini was outstanding. Whether they can successfully make the step up to first team level is another question entirely. Of those two, Borini has already made his debut, and Tore I'd say is a possibility. Having said all that, Nathaniel Chalobah, still only 15 has to be among the favourites to make it. Time will tell.

[fester]

Very interesting thread here .. Nice to join in ...

Guys , how good a player is Gokhan Tore ? I read about him in report on youth matches in our official site but nothing more than that .

And also other than Kakuta , McEachran , Bruma etc., ( those already made first team debut ) , which youth player will make it big in the future ?

He's very young, still only 15, but Nathaniel Chalobah has already taken a seat on the first team subs bench (v Newcastle in the Carling Cup).

[Nibs]

I'm over the moon (Brian!) that we have started to see the youngsters coming through and fair play to Carlo and the coaching staff for the way it's being done. Serious doubts that we would have seen the likes of Kakuta, McEachran & co getting a look in if Jose had still been in charge.

So difficult with youngsters though. As others have said, some look great at youth / reserve level but could be completely out of their depth in the first team. McEachran is the exception, he'll be a first team regular guaranteed and I also think that Bruma and Van Aanholt will progress. Kakuta should too, but he has a lot to learn yet and will need to improve a lot of aspects of his game. Toure is another. When I saw him a lot last season he looked brilliant, but by the end of the season and the begining of this, opponents seem to have found him out a bit and he's started to struggle. Time will tell, as it will for the likes of Clifford, Borini, Matic and Sala.

Exciting times though with the quality established players we have and a lot of decent youth showing they too will make it. BUT we cannot rely soley on youth. I was thinking the other night about our current injury situation. Say that coincided with the ACN where we lose Drogba, Essien, Kalou and Mikel. With the players we have let go and with Lamps and Benayoun injured, well frankly we'd be f**ked. So we will need to act before the next ACN in 2012.

[Ruh Buh Juh]

McEachran and Kakuta are the ones who have BIG chances of breaking through to the first team in a few years. Over the last few games I've heard nothing but good about both of them (missed them, annoyingly), and it seems against Newcastle, McEachran was actually the star man. Kakuta is going to be sticking around for a long time I think. Bruma and Van Aanholt are the other two that spring to mind quickly, whether they'll be regulars in two years remains to be seen, because I don't think Ash will be losing his place anytime soon, and JT is JT. For 12/13, I'm hoping for something like this:

--------------------------------Cech

---Ivan------------Alex----------------JT-------Ashley

-------------------Essien-------------Mikel

---Kakuta--------------McEachran------------Sturridge

-----------------------------Anelka

Although, a signing or two will be put in place by that time, almost guaranteed a striker, so where Sturridge plays remains to be seen, depending on whether we sign a winger of sorts.

[big blue]

cant see 10 players from our current set up all being of the elite standard our club requires, realistically, we have kakuta mceachran, bruma van aanholt and chaolbah, I'd very surprised if we had more than 5 world class players come through in the next 3 seasons. Still think we need to spennd some money on bringing in ready made replacements in some areas, we need another world class striker. and we need a world class centre midfielder. We cant be relying on teenagers to turn games round for us like what happened against city. ok we have injuries but 3 injuries isnt a crisis, 2 of which arent even first 11.

[sizzler85]

Kakuta should start trying his tricks and many times he is trying to pass the ball even in the early stages in the first half .. well , passing is really good for a young player as carlo said , but Kakuta has great dribbling skills and he can be clearly told to try them early in the match , IMO .

I wish our academy become as good as the Ajax or the Barcelona academy and we must have a great scouting network to find out talented youngsters and clearly for fans , a player coming from the academy is the best thing to happen .

[mad_mac]

I think Tore has the ability, and self belief to make the first team. Whether that is as a starter or not remains to be seen

[bluegraham]

You know Frank will still be a starter and popping his regulation 20 goals!

Seriously though, if we get that many of our current youngsters in to the team whilst still maintaining our position at the top of the league it will be a miracle. Realistically, getting two or three as regular starters would be fantastic.

I think we will see some player coming in to aid the transition as well.

yeah i agree id be shocked if that lot all came good be great if they did. to stay top of the pile you have to open the wallet now and again.

[sdsdsdsd]

--------------------------------Cech

---???------------Ivan----------------Bruma-------PVA

-------------------Essien-------------Mikel

---Kakuta--------------McEachran-----------Neymar :unsure:

-----------------------------Sturridge

Ok ok, I kid

However I don't think we can completely overhaul the team in one season. I'm hoping that Kakuta definitely secures a starting position by 2012/2013 and McEachran also(Ronaldo played for the ManU 1st team at 18, so its definitely possible). Guys like Bruma/PVA etc will probably only receive starting gigs maybe 2-3 years after that, when JT, ash, alex etc are all well passed their prime.

Ramires will feature in there somewhere as well along side Mikel/Essein as I believe that this will be our starting 3 next year if not the year after. RB is a bit of a problem. Bossy is completely up in the air considering his extended absence from the game and injury record.

Sturridge and Kalou are good in what they do, however not sure about their ability to lead our attack as potently as we have expected with Drogba. Then again id be happily corrected.

[Dorset]

So where do we need to get to for the start of the 2012/13 season? What have we got and where do we need to strengthen?

Goalkeeper: Cech will continue to be first choice, but, on what we’ve seen so far from Turnbull, the odds are that he will be overtaken by Rhys Taylor and Sebek, with Delac probably being in a similar position to the one Rhys Taylor’s in at the moment. Overall, this appears a good situation to be in, as long as Petr stays fit.

RB and CB: Lumped together because the assumption has to be that Ivan, covering for Bosingwa while injured, is not only the best replacement we have at RB, but he is also a genuine long term challenger for the position, especially in games where we cannot afford the luxury of a wing back [essentially what Bossy is] and also when we are under threat aerially from the bigger teams. I sense he might have to accept this role in the side, as Danny Pappoe, Aziz Deen-Conteh, Rohan Ince and young Chalobah are all excellent CB prospects and you wouldn’t rule any of them out when it comes to making the grade with us. JT will still be around, while Alex and Bruma could easily be our strongest central pairing two years down the line. Therefore RB is definitely the more vulnerable position in the set-up and the development of Billy Clifford and Jack Cork, together with the fitness of Bosingwa, holds the key to whether or not we need to spend in this area - the optimist would say we’re fine, the pessimist probably writes for a tabloid newspaper and links us with Danny Alves every five minutes of the day.

LB: Agree with all that fester said about this position, which is more than catered for both now, with Ashley [see how many moves he develops on the left flank] and in a future that will see Van Aanholt and Bertrand put increasing pressure on Zhirkov. Indeed, should he want to nail down a regular LB place, rather than move on, the task could get even harder as Ben Gordon is just as quick and a bigger unit than any of those players mentioned. Having said that, I thought Yuri played well in midfield against Marseille and if he sticks with us until 2012 it may be because he’s found an easier way into the team via that particular route - much in the same way as Belletti did - experienced player/older head helping out the youngsters type of role.

Midfield: Essien, Mikel and Ramires will be the established threesome by 2012 and we all hope Josh McEachran is a big name by then as well, perhaps even with Conor Clifford playing alongside on occasions. This season is crucial for Mancienne’s future at Chelsea [the same applies to loaneee Matic] whereas Philliskirk and Mellis are more versatile further up the pitch and as such could just as easily make breakthroughs as second strikers in the area that I feel we are by far and away the weakest in terms of talent. In short, there is so much latent potential in midfield that I can’t see us spending over and above the outlay on Ramires who, at the age of 23 and being an established international, had something all the other contenders have yet to achieve.

Attack, attack, attack, attack, attack [as fester so succinctly put it]: Yes, one of Kalou, Sturridge, or Borini really will have to step up to the mark and I believe the club recognised the doubt that exists in this area for the future, by pursuing Neymar (officially) and Torres (allegedly) - the former being a costly gamble that was a quantifiable risk worth taking (or not as it happened) as it fitted into the pursuit of youth policy and the latter, if true, presumably because there was the chance of acquiring a top class striker at the right time for the right price, a price that ultimately we were not prepared to budge on.

Many thought that Yossi might have pre-empted Torres arrival and even if he didn’t his position in the longer term scheme of things is something of a mystery. The idea that his transfer was a tide-over for the emergence of Kakuta is doubtful, because Gael has broken through anyway, and on the left Malouda looks capable of fending off all rivals for his position, albeit that he will be well into his thirties in 2012. Gokhan Tore, Jacopo Sala and Milan Lalkovic provide the youthful competition as out-and-out wingers on either flank now that Sinclair and Stoch have gone, so you have to think that at least one of them is tipped by the hierarchy to make the first team two years on.

So too Mitrovic, as the youngest potential central striker/target man, with the Di Santo and Nouble competition gone and no sign given that the club is prepared to overspend on a marquee player to lead the line, not even to bolster us in our quest for the Holy Grail. Last night on Chelsea TV’s PaperView the Guardian’s Dominic Fifield described the policy of introducing youngsters into the first team squad as ’brave’ and ’admirable’ whilst Martin Lipton (The Sun) said ’it wont work’, dismissing a lot of the kids mentioned above with words such as ’callow’ and ’unconvincing’. To my mind the introduction of one, perhaps two, world class strikers into our line-up sooner rather than later would go a long way towards buttressing that bravery in blooding them, never mind how long it takes and, hopefully, several of these kids will shut hacks like Lipton up. Ironic though it may be, some short term chequebook diplomacy to radically improve the sharp end of this team could well be the making of many of the youngsters breaking into the team in other areas.

Edited October 1, 2010 by Dorset

[saran75]

excellent topic and discussion lads-----all very well laid out and informative, excellent insight to thoughts on players possibly coming through------

has any of the two Cliffords any chance of breaking through?

Also i got the impression last season that Carlo fancied Borini to make an inpact-- i know he's recovering from injury, but what's the chances or does he need a loan spell to toughen up?

[SydneyChelsea]

Sorry Dorset, Fester but not even close. I agree with ethicalstrategy- two or three players involved in the first team would be excellent.

Barcelona is an interesting comparison. Messi is a world-beating and obvious talent, and Iniesta had been around for years, but they are rare exceptions. The strength of their youth system is that they produce classy squad players- Pedro, Busquets and Bojan are excellent additions to the squad, but they are not nailed-on starters and probably will never be. It will be many years, perhaps decades, before Chelsea's system will be able to develop the same sort of consistency.

We will have to look elsewhere for new strikers and defenders. I would agree that Kakuta, McEachran and Bruma are capable of being squad players in a few years time. I just hope that McEachran in particular looks at the example of Andres Iniesta, who had to be content with being a bit-part utility player for a number of years before making a name for himself.

[Planet Drogba]

Pedro and Busquets aren't starters? That's news to me.

[sdsdsdsd]

Pedro and Busquets aren't starters? That's news to me.

Pedro definitely starts most games, however Barca's strongest team compromises a midfield of Iniesta-Masch-Xavi. Busquets is quality at what he does tho and can play from a holding defensive midfielder to a creative midfielder.

Barca has also enjoyed the dominance of Spanish football over the last 5 years. As the biggest and perhaps most attractive club in Spain, they will usually get first hands on the quality talent, especially with Real being the only other competition. Therefore it is no surprise that Pedro, Iniesta, Xavi, Busquets and their central defense has all come through the academy.

[PloKoon13]

Mascherano's had a bit of an iffy start to the season. Busquets may yet hold onto to his first team role.

[Dorset]

Here’s a recent topic worthy of recall, if only because some of us might like to change our views on how the ‘transition’ is seen now in the light of all our current injury problems. A topic started only a month or so ago and referring to our likely situation a year or two down the line, yet all of a sudden many longer-term option players and predictions for their success are turning into necessity players who have to grow up very quickly. Time has flown, you could say, and many of us might like to review the comments made and have another go with the benefit of hindsight…

I’ll confess to getting it completely wrong with regard to midfield, where I now feel the burden on Essien [to be the enforcer, amongst other things] is too great and maybe it would have been better to have spent money on a more physical midfielder than Ramires to cover for the absence of his strength when injury/suspension occurred. My reliance on ‘latent potential’ seeing us through looks misguided now that the shorter term has become stark reality and we are being bullied in an area where we have plenty of that potential, but it’s either too latent or the feisty element is too young and somewhere down in the West Country… Plymouth, if I’m not mistaken.

Tempus bloody fugit in defence as well, and at least one of the ‘excellent prospects’ I named will need to step up to the first team bench and watch [no doubt a little nervously] while Jeffery Bruma becomes part of a central pairing two years before his time. That is, of course, if he is entrusted to do so for more than a month or two and ,if not, there is no real alternative other than a return to Paulo or a stopgap buy in the January window. We don’t generally do that temporary sort of thing these days, so it looks increasingly like a bid coming up for Jones of Blackburn, or Johnson of Birmingham, or Cahill of Bolton. Looking to the future, that’ll be Jones, but I’m with Star on this and think that Johnson would not only fit the bill, but jump at the chance to join us.

This leaves the strikers and here I stand by every word said, even to the point of offering up a prayer for that ‘short term chequebook diplomacy’ to provide the much-needed support required to get us through this transitional period and also keep us competitive on all fronts. Anybody else want to review and reconsider their comments?

[Nibs]

This leaves the strikers and here I stand by every word said, even to the point of offering up a prayer for that ‘short term chequebook diplomacy’ to provide the much-needed support required to get us through this transitional period and also keep us competitive on all fronts. Anybody else want to review and reconsider their comments?

I honestly think the striker area is the one area we are currently okay (for now). Looking ahead, we certainly need replacements for BOTH Drogba and Anelka. But our strikeforce at present of these two + Sturridge, Kalou and Borini is better than anyones.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing etc etc, but I think our current injury situation shows how it would have been prudent to give some of the youngsters playing time earlier in the season. When we were cruising in some games 3 or 4 up they could have gained more experience rather than give them 10 minutes or in some cases no time at all. I want to see McEachran & Kakuta get plenty of playing time and in an ideal world that would mean alongside Essien & Lamps. Ditto Bruma coming in alongside JT. It appears we are not going to have that luxury and they could well be thrown in at the deep end.

I repeat my worries about the current squad and what would happen in an ANC year when we lose Essien, Mikel, Drogba and Kalou. With the injuries we currently have we would be f**ked big time. Contingency plan needed!!

Edited November 17, 2010 by Nibs