For over 23 years the families of the Hillsborough 96 have fought for justice, honesty and transparency. Today, as the official documents on the tragedy which took their loved ones are finally released their courageous and tireless efforts will at last be rewarded. This Chelsea fan offers her sincere respect and continued sympathies to all those families.

At times like this I'd like to think we can look beyond team loyalties and stand shoulder to shoulder with Liverpool fans. YNWA.

I wonder if they'll accept the findings, come what may?

I wonder if they'll accept the findings, come what may?

Unfortunately I doubt it, I have little doubt that lots of mistakes were made on the day, but the Scousers need to hold their hands up as well!

I hear what you're saying, Barn, and I agree with you too, ShedPensioner and I think it possible that the documents might make uncomfortable reading for some.

Generally I take the lawyer's stance of "I wasn't there so I can't possibly comment" but for all that it would seem entirely illogical that there was no fault at all on the part of any LFC supporters. But, irrespective of that mistakes were indeed caused and lives lost as a result. It could so easily have been any one of us and as a football fan, as a mother and as one who, as my name suggests, loved standing on the terraces, I feel for the bereaved and hope that the release of the documents brings closure for them.

I hope families achieve some closure from the documents and the Liverpool fans there that day .

I have no time for the majority of their support any teams support that boo’s the National Anthem in the Queens Diamond Jubliee year are a disgrace. Respect your dead and let them rest in peace.

I wonder if they'll accept the findings, come what may?

No paper or media outlet will dare print anything negative about the Liverpool supporters, if you want to find critisisms of them, you'll need to read the documents yourself.

As for the documents in general... It's about time Liverpool moved on. Before every report they say "this is it, after this we can stop", after every report it's either "we want MORE info" or "we want people to be punished!!!" and add another piece of symbolism to their kit.

It's been over 23 years. The police were presented with a situation they didn't know how to deal with, panicked and made wrong decisions (both during and in the aftermath), stadium grounds are safer, matches are policed better and hooliganism has long faded into the background. People need to move on (especially given how about 90% of the people on forums who get heated about it were either not alive or too young to understand/remember it).

*edit*

I'm also reminded of stuff like this which makes it really difficult to respect these fans:

Edited September 12, 201213 yr by abigsmurf

The whole episode seems to stem from an arrogant police commander on the day,and a built in 'rivalry/hatred' between the average yorkshire copper and the Liverpool support causing the police to be unsympathetic in the initial stages of the catastrophe. Allied to the total (and not uncommon in those days) disregard for fans safety by sheffield wednesday FC.

It's VERY rare i stick up for Liverpool fans, but on this occasion, it would seem a string of events that they can't be held responsible for on that fateful day does exonerate them from any blame.

I hope today that the truth of the obvious Police cover-up is exposed and those responsible are either sacked without 'extra' benefits normally given to officers, or have those benefits taken away if they have already retired.

The same should apply to any politicians.

What i wouldn't like to see is this used as a tool to make financial claims (as appears to be the culture at the moment) because IMO (and i suppose it's easier for me to say, not having lost someone) it takes away the dignity and would diminish the support from 'outsiders' leading to accusations of money over justice.

I have no time for Liverpools support because...

Booing the national anthem, disrespecting the dead of other clubs, Heysel to name a few, but i do hope sincerely that the families can put this to bed once and for all after today....

But i somehow doubt it, there are always some who will never be satisfied.

Alan

Edited September 12, 201213 yr by chelseablueboy

What Alan said, for the most part, except I believe that some Scouse fans need to hold their hands up to a portion of the blame here.

Turning up in large numbers, late, some drunk and some with no tickets forced the Police to handle the outside in a way that was not done well. But, the film at the time of Liverpool fans outside the ground, climbing over the gates and then kicking them to try to break in, for me, indicates that the holier-than-thou attitude of the majority of Liverpool apologists is merely covering up for the criminal actions of the few.

By all means remember the 96, punish the Police, politicians and the ground owners, but NEVER forget that this came about because some Liverpool fans created a situation whereby some very dubious decisions had to be taken, on the run, in order to prevent serious disorder and problems outside the ground.

Most of us will have seen Scousers trying to crash the turnstiles at Stamford Bridge, trying to use old tickets to blag their way in and boasting about how good they are at bunking their way into games. Sadly for the 96, it turned to a pile of sh*te at Hillsborough. Doesn't stop a minority of them trying it on even to this day.

If the whole Hillsborough memorial industry would just stand up and say, yes, some Liverpool fans were in part contributory to this disaster, I, for one, would have less emnity to the whole thing.

Edited September 12, 201213 yr by yorkleyblue

Hey guys, liverpool fan here, signed up in part to reply to this thread (and for the football banter elsewhere of course)

First off i'd just like to show my gratitude for this thread and the support it shows, football rivalries don't mean a thing in these sort of circumstances. I'd just like to respond to a couple of issues that I see raised here if I may, and I need to stress these are mainly my opinions, I obviously don't speak for all lfc fans.

First off, to get this out of the way to 'abigsmurf', i'm just as disgusted by that video as you are, and as a liverpool fan that lives in the heart of liverpool I can stress to you that these fans are the minority, every club has it's minorities share of c**ts and liverpool are no different, i've seen the same kind of behaviour from fans from a lot of teams, be it everton, man united, chelsea or any other club, but they are always a small minority just like the lfc fans you see in this video.

As for lfc fans taking the share of the 'blame' for the disaster I would never be naive enough, nor would many other liverpool fans, to think that there were not factors that they shouldn't admit were down to the fanbase, i think the problem is the word 'blame' obviously has harsh connotations which are not relevant in this case. The fact that many ticketless fans showed up was a mistake, however it was common practice for a lot of teams at the time, especially combined with the fact that people often bought tickets on the gate, it could just have easily been any other team, even chelsea, there but for the grace of god.

It's been shown today that the police actions, and that of the media, have been nothing short of disgusting. The lies of drunken fans, violence, and other lies that I care not even to repeat, were spread by the police and media (mainly the sun) so that they would not take the blame for the countless mistakes they made. The lengths that they went to to try and support this lie was horrendous, carrying out police checks on the dead, testing every victim for blood-alchohol levels, including countless children.

164 documents were altered, 164 documents altered with countless lies in each one so that the blame would be heavily shifted to the liverpool fans and away from the actions of the government and the police, just take a moment and think about that, think about the families that have had to wait 23 years to discover the truth.

Anyways like i said I appreciate the thread, and hopefully you welcome having a liverpool supporter amongst your ranks.

Edited September 12, 201213 yr by lewy

Some of the things coming out of this are truly sickening, the doctoring of statements, taking of blood then tracking down criminal records etc. But to then use a national newspaper to to lay the blame at the fans and move it totally away from the police is unbelievable, just something I never though was possible.

Hi - another Liverpool fan here. I just came on another football club's forum to see if there was any reaction to today's HIP and this is the first one I came across. Why Chelsea? Well, I now live in Epsom and most of my local friends are Chelsea fans. The Hillsborough topic isn't something I've talked about with them at any length mainly because it's not exactly some you throw in as idle chit-chat and another reason was that I had the misfortune to be in the ground that day - I was only 18 at the time and attended with my friend. We were very fortunate to come out unharmed that day.

I think for a long time I tried not to think too much about it - not sure why, I don't think it was anything to do with post-traumatic doo-daa - just the way I'm built I guess. But after a period of time and around the 10th anniversary I started to think more and more about what happened. Looking back now it seems a lifetime ago. I've never really discussed what I saw happen that day - even with the friend I was with nor with my wife. I wouldn't wish it on anyone

Just to say that the Taylor report and what I'm seeing coming from the HIP concurs with my experience that day - I've been to 100s of matches (mainly LFC) but seen a lot of Chelsea (my 9 year old is a Chelsea fan - after all he was born in Epsom and I couldn't get him to support Leatherhead) and if anything the behaviour of the LFC fans was more relaxed than usual - it was a warm, sunny day, a higher proportion of youngsters - it was a happy atmosphere. Really, it is simple - the police lost control of a crowd - nothing more, nothing less.

I know there are tribalism issues here and that that's what a lot of football support is based on - but really, this isn't to do with football, or the City of Liverpool. It's do with real humans dying for no reason and then the very organistions that are meant to protect us, turn on us

Today, I'm a mixture of emotions - relieved the truth is starting to come out, that the families can start to grieve, personally sad that those memories and visions are stirred again and happy that maybe people can learn from their mistakes.

Me? I'm not arsed what other people say - as my Dad always told me "When an idiot slags you off, just remember that they're idiots"

-

Some of the things coming out of this are truly sickening, the doctoring of statements, taking of blood then tracking down criminal records etc. But to then use a national newspaper to to lay the blame at the fans and move it totally away from the police is unbelievable, just something I never though was possible.

it's a very intimidating thought, the idea that these two powerful institutions, and one which upholds the law no less, can collude to divert the truth for their own ends. Everyone in Liverpool knew that the allegations printed in the sun were simply untrue but i never imagined that the police would be so involved in the lies. Kelvin Mackenzie has a lot to answer to, although i'm sure he will just hide behind the blame put towards the police and say "well this is what I was told", I havn't yet read the whole report so hopefully it will contain information that doesn't make this possible for him.

Some of the things coming out of this are truly sickening, the doctoring of statements, taking of blood then tracking down criminal records etc. But to then use a national newspaper to to lay the blame at the fans and move it totally away from the police is unbelievable, just something I never though was possible.

I'd like to hear G4's take on this "conspiracy nonsense".

I largely agree with Yorkey's stance on this. I am much too young to be personally connected to the incident but when 96 people die in a man made disaster, there are no "blameless" parties. The findings however are shameful.

Although there's been a fair bit of ill feeling between Liverpool and Chelsea supporters over the past decade or so I'd like to believe that for the fair minded and decent among us have been on the side of Liverpool supporters unreservedly on this subject.

I sincerely hope the families of those who died can see a light at the end of the tunnel today.

Has anyone taken a look at the Sun's website? Read between the lines. Those shameless bar stewards.

Has anyone taken a look at the Sun's website? Read between the lines. Those shameless bar stewards.

yeah i saw that, hopefully that's just a monumental mistake, but I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest, disgusting. Kelvin Mackenzie has apologised but it's far too little far too late, he really needs to answer to the deplorable comments made. I don't know whats more heartbreaking at the moment to be honest, how the actual tragedy was handled by the police or the 23 year campaign of lies that followed and the obstruction of the truth.

yeah i saw that, hopefully that's just a monumental mistake, but I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest, disgusting. Kelvin Mackenzie has apologised but it's far too little far too late, he really needs to answer to the deplorable comments made. I don't know whats more heartbreaking at the moment to be honest, how the actual tragedy was handled by the police or the 23 year campaign of lies that followed and the obstruction of the truth.

Is it a huge coincidence that on the very day that the truth begins to emerge McKenzie realises, 23 years down the line, that he printed a series of huge whoppers just after the tragedy?

What an odious f**king toad that man is.

yeah i saw that, hopefully that's just a monumental mistake, but I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest, disgusting. Kelvin Mackenzie has apologised but it's far too little far too late, he really needs to answer to the deplorable comments made. I don't know whats more heartbreaking at the moment to be honest, how the actual tragedy was handled by the police or the 23 year campaign of lies that followed and the obstruction of the truth.

where?

What was said etc? I must have missed something. I didnt read the article really, skimmed it at best.

Not sure about Kelvin but one thing I read was the Suns report was mainly made from local Sheffield newspaper findings, and was pushed along a certain path by senior policemen and an MP. Ive a feeling some of those involved at the Sun have been badly treat here and have been duped into these lies.

where?

What was said etc? I must have missed something. I didnt read the article really, skimmed it at best.

it's changed now, it oringally had the hillsbourough report at the bottom of the page, the main headline was, "kerry catonna to brian mcfadden: SHUT UP AND MOVE ON" - i like to think it was just a simple overlooking but as I said I wouldn't be surprised. They have now changed the main headline to that of the tragedy, with no mention to the lies, instead putting all the blame on the police for the lies spread.

Not sure about Kelvin but one thing I read was the Suns report was mainly made from local Sheffield newspaper findings, and was pushed along a certain path by senior policemen and an MP. Ive a feeling some of those involved at the Sun have been badly treat here and have been duped into these lies.

It's not the fact that the allegations were reported, they were in other papers, but how they handled it, rather than making it clear they were alleged actions they went with the headline "THE TRUTH", you can read for yourself what was underneath it but it was disgusting, he also said this in 2006 - Kelvin Mackenzie - "I was not sorry then & I'm not sorry now...All I did wrong was tell the truth." (Nov 2006)

Edited September 12, 201213 yr by lewy

That is pretty disgusting

Apparently it was all Mackenzies own work as well, every other sub editor told him not to run the story in that way.

Apparently it was all Mackenzies own work as well, every other sub editor told him not to run the story in that way.

they had the writer of the article on a special bbc programme a couple of days ago, he sad that he wrote the article which but tried to be careful to highlight that these were allegations, he took it to mackenzie, who was quite keen on writing his own headlines at the time, and he stuck on the infamous headlines, despite the protestations of the article authour.

McScumbag has spoken:

Today I offer my profuse apologies to the people of Liverpool for that headline. I too was totally misled. Twenty three ago I was handed a piece of copy from a reputable news agency in Sheffield in which a senior police officer and a senior local MP were making serious allegations against fans in the stadium. I had absolutely no reason to believe that these authority figures would lie and deceive over such a disaster.

As the Prime Minister has made clear these allegations were wholly untrue and were part of a concerted plot by police officers to discredit the supporters thereby shifting the blame for the tragedy from themselves.

It has taken more than two decades, 400,000 documents and a two-year inquiry to discover to my horror that it would have been far more accurate had I written the headline The Lies rather than The Truth. I published in good faith and I am sorry that it was so wrong http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...-released-live

And the Police wonder why people f**king hate them...

I want to see the utter decimation of Rupert Murdoch's gutter press, get them the f**k out of this country.

#DontBuyTheSun and #ShutDownTheSun are both trending on Twitter at the moment, surprised how many players from different clubs have posted on it too.

Despite the absolutely shocking revelations today it is uplifting to see players and fans from all over the country uniting for a cause, not sure I have the right to say this but YNWA.

Edited September 12, 201213 yr by Lyncath