I don't think Willian and Oscar will play together, would take a guess Ramires will play if we don't go with the Zouma tactics.

Zouma was there to take out Utds long ball tactics and match Fellainis physicality. I doubt he plays this one.

 

True, but in the League Cup Final he man-marked Eriksen out of the game too. Could see him possibly doing the same for Ozil if he's played centrally.

He's played the same sort of position in other games agaisnt the big teams though who don't play long ball football so what was the thinking behind that?

Matic was suspended

Matic man marking isn't his game though, Zouma taking a creative players freedom away allows Matic to try to dictate the midfield and push on, he can't do that with only Cesc beside him.

Like United we will set up not to lose this one, that usually means we don't play our normal 11 especially away from home.

That's how Jose works.

Edited April 20, 201511 yr by Chelsbear

We should use this starting XI:

 

Others

 

Mikel

 

Others

Matic man marking isn't his game though, Zouma taking a creative players freedom away allows Matic to try to dictate the midfield and push on, he can't do that with only Cesc beside him.

Like United we will set up not to lose this one, that usually means we don't play our normal 11 especially away from home.

That's how Jose works.

Havent they only played together once? Didt really see Matic do any of those things against Utd. I agree that we will set up not to lose, I just dont think Zouma will play against Arsenals quick midfield. Ramires-Matic-Fab is my guess

Havent they only played together once? Didt really see Matic do any of those things against Utd. I agree that we will set up not to lose, I just dont think Zouma will play against Arsenals quick midfield. Ramires-Matic-Fab is my guess

Thing is Zouma is faster than those 3 players.

We should use this starting XI:

 

Others

 

Mikel

 

Others

 

Matic and Zouma are both better defensive midfielders than him aren't they? Not sure I'd pick a guy who has made just two appearances in the Premier League this year.

 

Also Zouma's performance at the weekend was better than any Mikel has managed in the last two years wasn't it?

Lets put an exclamation point on this title and absolutely pump these bellends, let the rest of the league know there is no doubting our credentials, no more conservative football required Jose!! 4-0 Hazard Willian Oscar and Cesc all poking home.

Matic and Zouma are both better defensive midfielders than him aren't they? Not sure I'd pick a guy who has made just two appearances in the Premier League this year.

 

Also Zouma's performance at the weekend was better than any Mikel has managed in the last two years wasn't it?

 

Matic yes, Zouma not even close.

 

Zouma is a decent defensive mid as long as you don't expect him to have the ball at any point. He was good against Man Utd, the again I suppose it's not especially hard to impress in a single game when your sole responsibility is winning headers. He certainly has a fantastic future ahead of him at Chelsea, but that will be at centre back (and in my dreams it is shoulder to shoulder with Varane).

 

I assume the Desailly comparisons are based purely on the fact that he's big, French, black and plays for Chelsea as he is nowhere near as good on the ball and is clearly not a natural midfielder; you may as well compare him to Rafa Marquez for all the sense it makes.

Lets put an exclamation point on this title and absolutely pump these bellends, let the rest of the league know there is no doubting our credentials, no more conservative football required Jose!! 4-0 Hazard Willian Oscar and Cesc all poking home.

I think we have to remember Arsenal are the in form side in the league just now, they are playing really good stuff.

I doubt this is a game we’d romp given both our current form and ways of playing.

A draw is a great result, I doubt we will be attacking other than the counter now and then.

Matic yes, Zouma not even close.

 

Zouma is a decent defensive mid as long as you don't expect him to have the ball at any point. He was good against Man Utd, the again I suppose it's not especially hard to impress in a single game when your sole responsibility is winning headers. He certainly has a fantastic future ahead of him at Chelsea, but that will be at centre back (and in my dreams it is shoulder to shoulder with Varane).

 

 

Of course when he had the ball he managed to complete 90% of his passes which was the third highest of the starting eleven. 

 

I disagree that his sole responsibility was winning headers as well. He was a brick wall on the ground as well. I absolutely agree that his future is as a centre back but in the meantime he does a fantastic job in midfield, and that includes the league cup final where he completely neutered Eriksen.

 

He's a better player than Mikel in midfield.

 

 

I assume the Desailly comparisons are based purely on the fact that he's big, French, black and plays for Chelsea as he is nowhere near as good on the ball and is clearly not a natural midfielder; you may as well compare him to Rafa Marquez for all the sense it makes.

 

There's physical resemblances but there's also similarities in the way they pass the ball, their physicality in the tackle and in the air and also their commitment. But that's just my opinion. Maybe Jose compared him to Desailly purely because he's 'big, French, black and plays for Chelsea' but it's impossible to know.

Thing is Zouma is faster than those 3 players.

Faster then Rami? I doubt it. I didnt say fast though, I said quick. Zouma isnt quick. I guess we will se, but like I said, I doubt he plays Zouma

Matic yes, Zouma not even close.

 

Zouma is a decent defensive mid as long as you don't expect him to have the ball at any point. He was good against Man Utd, the again I suppose it's not especially hard to impress in a single game when your sole responsibility is winning headers. He certainly has a fantastic future ahead of him at Chelsea, but that will be at centre back (and in my dreams it is shoulder to shoulder with Varane).

 

I assume the Desailly comparisons are based purely on the fact that he's big, French, black and plays for Chelsea as he is nowhere near as good on the ball and is clearly not a natural midfielder; you may as well compare him to Rafa Marquez for all the sense it makes.

 

 

I also don't see the comparisons. Desailly was a great football player, Zouma looks a good athaletic defender but I think we still need to think about some one who is going to lead at the back and orgnaise 

Of course when he had the ball he managed to complete 90% of his passes which was the third highest of the starting eleven. 

 

I disagree that his sole responsibility was winning headers as well. He was a brick wall on the ground as well. I absolutely agree that his future is as a centre back but in the meantime he does a fantastic job in midfield, and that includes the league cup final where he completely neutered Eriksen.

 

He's a better player than Mikel in midfield.

 

There's physical resemblances but there's also similarities in the way they pass the ball, their physicality in the tackle and in the air and also their commitment. But that's just my opinion. Maybe Jose compared him to Desailly purely because he's 'big, French, black and plays for Chelsea' but it's impossible to know.

 

Well I have no doubts that Mourinho compared them because everything he says is entirely serious and certainly not just nonsense which he thinks will work to his advantage one way or another... in this case perhaps giving Zouma an 'attaboy', subtly implying that Zouma could go on to be a key member of the Chelsea team and France team for years while ingratiating himself with the fans. If Zouma is similar to anyone it's Sylvain Distin, a strong, fast, left-footed centre back who is good in the air and has decent positioning.

 

It is utterly ludicrous to conclude that Zouma is better than Mikel in midfield based on two starts in that position where his job was to man mark. Not that Mikel has frequently done a better job against better players...

 

And Mikel has never achieved a 90%+ pass completion rate in his life, no sir.

1-2 Chelsea

Well I have no doubts that Mourinho compared them because everything he says is entirely serious and certainly not just nonsense which he thinks will work to his advantage one way or another... in this case perhaps giving Zouma an 'attaboy', subtly implying that Zouma could go on to be a key member of the Chelsea team and France team for years while ingratiating himself with the fans. If Zouma is similar to anyone it's Sylvain Distin, a strong, fast, left-footed centre back who is good in the air and has decent positioning.

 

 

Are you just comparing him to Distin because he's big, French, black and wears a blue shirt?

 

Maybe he compared him to him because he saw similarities between the two. For me it's the way they pass the ball - they both have this hunched over style that is strikingly similar, but that's just me.

 

 

It is utterly ludicrous to conclude that Zouma is better than Mikel in midfield based on two starts in that position where his job was to man mark. Not that Mikel has frequently done a better job against better players...

 

And Mikel has never achieved a 90%+ pass completion rate in his life, no sir.

 

I thought I'd throw in the pass completion stat because it wouldn't be a Mikel discussion without that.

 

I've said it elsewhere but there's a reason Chelsea fans have taken to Zouma so quickly in a way they never did with Mikel. He's got heart, he gives everything to the cause and he never shirks and that will always appeal to our fanbase. 

 

Maybe it is ludicrous but I trust Kurt. He's been brilliant almost every time he's started and he's got the most refreshing attitude. I do understand there's always been this thing about Mikel where he's misunderstood or the work he does is so unnoticeable that most supporters can't appreciate it, but supporters loved Makelele, they love Matic and now they love Zouma and that's because they're a class apart.

 

Mikel isn't. 

Edited April 20, 201511 yr by Blue Daze

We took to Mikael Forssell too. We also took to David Luiz, another player who 'gives everything to the cause'... oddly he hasn't been missed. It is a ridiculous faux-validation of popular ignorance to argue that a player is superior based on completely intangible qualities, 'proof' of which is largely down to popular opinion, e.g. 'he's got heart'... and Mikel doesn't? What is he, the cowardly lion? Of course someone whose job and style of play isn't particularly dramatic isn't going to get plaudits. Was Didier Deschamps popular with the Chelsea fans? No. Was he a bad player? Of course not. Did he make the players around him better? Absolutely.

 

To be honest I think you've been waiting for an opportunity to take a dig at Mikel because you know it tends to start an entrenched argument. You've also attempted to paint being pro-Mikel as being anti-Zouma which was a nice touch I suppose. In fact you've even tried to paint being pro-Mikel as being anti-fanbase, which is particularly specious.

 

There's really no room for nuance is there?

We need to win them. They're in great form but we are better as team. We don't need to lose points.

 

Courtois

 

Ivanovic

Terry

Cahill

Azpi

 

Matic

Fabregas

 

Cuadrado

Oscar

Hazard

 

Remy (if fit)

Let's not forget who might be back for this one....

 

 

 

 

We took to Mikael Forssell too. We also took to David Luiz, another player who 'gives everything to the cause'... oddly he hasn't been missed. It is a ridiculous faux-validation of popular ignorance to argue that a player is superior based on completely intangible qualities, 'proof' of which is largely down to popular opinion, e.g. 'he's got heart'... and Mikel doesn't? What is he, the cowardly lion? Of course someone whose job and style of play isn't particularly dramatic isn't going to get plaudits. Was Didier Deschamps popular with the Chelsea fans? No. Was he a bad player? Of course not. Did he make the players around him better? Absolutely.

 

 

Deschamps wasn't that popular at first but grew into it. I always liked him. Forssell we had high hopes for but again, I don't recall him getting anywhere close to the reception Zouma did. Luiz is an exception, but I never liked him. Thought he was a freelancer who put himself before the team.

 

Makelele was adored by the Chelsea support though and his style of play was never particularly dramatic. Same goes for Matic, both of whom played a very similar role to Mikel (obviously not his role this season).

 

 

To be honest I think you've been waiting for an opportunity to take a dig at Mikel because you know it tends to start an entrenched argument. You've also attempted to paint being pro-Mikel as being anti-Zouma which was a nice touch I suppose. In fact you've even tried to paint being pro-Mikel as being anti-fanbase, which is particularly specious.

 

 

An entrenched argument? I thought those disappeared when Matic was signed. Fact is I've always found Mikel rather anomalous (not to be confused with anonymous) in that he's been here so long but rarely has he been a fan favourite in my opinion. 

 

Now we have this young lad who has come in and done a magnificent job in the same position more or less as Mikel and is immediately adored by the fans. I don't for a minute think people who are pro-Mikel are anti-Zouma simply because there isn't a single Chelsea fan who is anti-Zouma (and if there is I don't want to know them).

 

Sorry if I've offended you though. I respect most of your opinions but we'll just have to agree to disagree on Mikel. 

If Costa is back I doubt he'll start tbh

If Costa is back I doubt he'll start tbh

Yeah.

Remy would be a safer bet if ready.

Don't want Costa to do even more damage to his hamstring by rushing him back.

An entrenched argument? I thought those disappeared when Matic was signed. Fact is I've always found Mikel rather anomalous (not to be confused with anonymous) in that he's been here so long but rarely has he been a fan favourite in my opinion.

 

Now we have this young lad who has come in and done a magnificent job in the same position more or less as Mikel and is immediately adored by the fans. I don't for a minute think people who are pro-Mikel are anti-Zouma simply because there isn't a single Chelsea fan who is anti-Zouma (and if there is I don't want to know them).

 

Sorry if I've offended you though. I respect most of your opinions but we'll just have to agree to disagree on Mikel.

 

They came back when Willian was signed. Naturally they've been ongoing; just because we've signed Matic doesn't mean the debate over Mikel won't still continue. Nonetheless I still think you are trying to fuel another Mikel argument, you tried [somehow] to connect him to the heated argument we were having about Rob Green a couple of weeks ago. Not because he was in any way relevant but because you thought it might fuel the fire.

As for today, after you noticed that I (quite often involved in these Mikel arguments) had taken umbrage at an absurd exaggeration you had made, went on to post the exact same argument in two other threads, ostensibly praising Zouma, yet managing to get in several digs at Mikel in both. Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion, but why do any of that unless your intention is to start a bipolar and thoroughly tedious argument and piss people off?

 

No, of course you don't actually think that, but you are keen to imply that it is the case because it makes the fuse you initially lit look more valid. Zouma doesn't generally play the same position as Mikel - he has started 16 times for us this season, twice in defensive mid. Once because there was nobody else who could play there, the second time because he was the most physical option we had to man-mark Fellaini, who Man Utd have been using as a target man to get the ball up the pitch quickly. He's a brilliant centre back, but really not a natural choice for the midfield, or really anything beyond competent.

 

Deschamps wasn't that popular at first but grew into it. I always liked him. Forssell we had high hopes for but again, I don't recall him getting anywhere close to the reception Zouma did. Luiz is an exception, but I never liked him. Thought he was a freelancer who put himself before the team.

 

Makelele was adored by the Chelsea support though and his style of play was never particularly dramatic. Same goes for Matic, both of whom played a very similar role to Mikel (obviously not his role this season).

 

I liked Luiz at first, I saw him as somewhat of a work in progress, one of those players who "could be world class if..." A couple of seasons later it became abundantly clear that his decision-making hadn't really improved at all and was never going to. He is however, a telling example of a player who is popular because he is fun to watch, if ultimately it is to the detriment of the team when he does. But of course I would never accuse English football fans of not having a clue...

 

Makélélé is, in my eyes, the best defensive midfielder I've ever seen. I don't think it's really fair to compare anybody to him; even Matic is rubbish in comparison. Quite possibly had the best grin in football too, it would endear him to anybody.

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