If that happens, we could always ask the FA if we can receive the trophy against Liverpool.

Because they allways bend over backwards to help us out.

Really do not want to finish below Arsenal this year, so would be much appreciated if you could smash them...

Consider it done.

How many times are we actually going to see 'particularly defensive displays' though? 6 times a season? In those instances I'd be more than comfortable using Zouma. You would obviously feel more comfortable using Mikel. That's fine, we don't have to agree.

 

Why not Mikel AND Zouma?

 

Mikel - Zouma - Matic

 

Edited April 21, 201511 yr by the special one

Why not Mikel AND Zouma?

 

Mikel - Zouma - Matic

 

 

That would be a double-decker bus

 

I think he'll benefit from being used in a number of positions, as do a few of the coaches at Chelsea, and I also think the team will. If he can cover a coupe of positions off the bench then that's ideal.

 

 

 

To be honest I'd be considering him as a starter at centre back next season. Cahill's form has improved massively in the last couple of months, but I still think that his starting place is Zouma's for the taking.

 

Again, I don't think Zouma's passing is anywhere good enough to play in midfield, in fact it's the worst even out of the four players we have who can play at centre back. During his very limited time in midfield he has had no responsibility in possession, in fact his pass count was described in the apparently overlooked article posted above as "absurdly low", which makes him useful for basically one gameplan. He is not a serious option in midfield; Richard Jolly nailed it: "Zouma is not a midfielder. He is a centre-back who was incorporated into a recalibrated team in a defensive rethink."

 

 

 

I agree with some of that, but I don't really see a Loftus-Cheek midfield being selected in anything other than League Cup matches, and even in the one against Shrewsbury we had to replace Mikel (not Ake) when we went chasing the game.

 

 

 

We replaced Mikel because he was playing as the defensive midfielder that day, with Aké's role being to distribute it long (with Drogba up front), which if anything shows the lack of alternatives we have to Fabregas in the squad. It might also be worth noting that we only ended up scoring the winner via a [hilarious] own goal.

 

 

 

I've seen him described as that on here as well. Doesn't make it remotely true.

 

 

 

Nor is crowd feeling indicative of anything other than popularity, yet you argued that it is a factor in why you think Zouma is a better midfielder than Mikel.

We started the Bradford City game with a midfield of Mikel and Ramires, the only goal we conceded was an unlikely Jon Stead belter from the edge of the box (which Cech should really have saved). Mikel was replaced by Fabregas with 20 minutes left due to injury and we proceeded to concede three times. It's not even like we were hit on the counter while Fabregas was upfield creating things, two of the goals started from throw-ins. I admire his effort, but Fabregas has no defensive instincts whatsoever; it is thoroughly absurd to suggest he is a better defender than Mikel, in fact I have to wonder whether you were being serious.

 

 

 

So you're using a game where we were massively lucky and restricted Barcelona to 23 attempts on goal including a missed penalty as evidence of us requiring Mikel going next season?

 

 

 

23 attempts on goal... of which six were on target, almost half of them being from outside the box, and this was with ten men, against arguably the best club side in existence, without Matic next to him.

And even in that game, in which we had 18% possession, Mikel managed as many passes as Zouma did against Man Utd, a home game with 11 men in which we had almost double that.

Oh there's a shock...stories out there now saying Drogba will be fine for Sunday, possibly Remy and Costa too...knew it was bollox

Oh there's a shock...stories out there now saying Drogba will be fine for Sunday, possibly Remy and Costa too...knew it was bollox

 

 

I was hoping for a possible news that maybe Solanke or Brown will start, but now it's obviously impossible.

To be honest I'd be considering him as a starter at centre back next season. Cahill's form has improved massively in the last couple of months, but I still think that his starting place is Zouma's for the taking.

 

Again, I don't think Zouma's passing is anywhere good enough to play in midfield, in fact it's the worst even out of the four players we have who can play at centre back. During his very limited time in midfield he has had no responsibility in possession, in fact his pass count was described in the apparently overlooked article posted above as "absurdly low", which makes him useful for basically one gameplan. He is not a serious option in midfield; Richard Jolly nailed it: "Zouma is not a midfielder. He is a centre-back who was incorporated into a recalibrated team in a defensive rethink."

 

 

I think Cahill has recovered his form magnificently and was superb at the weekend. It means we have options there and also use Zouma in midfield if we place tough opposition, but once again we're talking about maybe half-a-dozen games. 

 

As for him being a midfielder, I think he does a very specific job. Do I want him there for games where we dominate possession? No. But for those games we have Fabregas, Matic, Oscar and Loftus-Cheek, plus any potential acquisitions.

 

 

We replaced Mikel because he was playing as the defensive midfielder that day, with Aké's role being to distribute it long (with Drogba up front), which if anything shows the lack of alternatives we have to Fabregas in the squad. It might also be worth noting that we only ended up scoring the winner via a [hilarious] own goal.

 

We replaced Mikel because we actually had possession of the ball and needed someone who could offer something going forwards as well as backwards. 

 

 

 

Nor is crowd feeling indicative of anything other than popularity, yet you argued that it is a factor in why you think Zouma is a better midfielder than Mikel.

 

 

Actually I believe I brought that up in relation to why the Stamford Bridge faithful have taken to Zouma in a way they never did to Mikel. You haven't answered that and that's understandable.

 

 

We started the Bradford City game with a midfield of Mikel and Ramires, the only goal we conceded was an unlikely Jon Stead belter from the edge of the box (which Cech should really have saved). Mikel was replaced by Fabregas with 20 minutes left due to injury and we proceeded to concede three times. It's not even like we were hit on the counter while Fabregas was upfield creating things, two of the goals started from throw-ins. I admire his effort, but Fabregas has no defensive instincts whatsoever; it is thoroughly absurd to suggest he is a better defender than Mikel, in fact I have to wonder whether you were being serious.

 

 

I recall that game not being televised so I'm wondering how many of the 90 minutes you actually saw.

 

I actually think it's mightily unfair to say Fabregas has no defensive instincts but I think this is a case of you rubbishing Cesc to make the case for Mikel look stronger. I think Cesc reads the game tremendously and gets himself into fantastic positions to compliment the work Matic and Oscar do in different areas of the pitch, but we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

 

23 attempts on goal... of which six were on target, almost half of them being from outside the box, and this was with ten men, against arguably the best club side in existence, without Matic next to him.

And even in that game, in which we had 18% possession, Mikel managed as many passes as Zouma did against Man Utd, a home game with 11 men in which we had almost double that.

 

14 were on target according to the BBC....and that doesn't include the penalty which hit the bar. Still, less than the 34 chances created by Bayern in the final.

Apparently we had 27% of possession in that game as well.

 

Neither is a ringing endorsement of the man. We were incredibly lucky in both matches.

 

I think this is pointless though. To be honest discussions about Mikel are so passé and have been since we bought Matic. Let's just say that he's been here a while, he doesn't cost much and no-one who has the resources to pay his wages would probably want him (again, love to here of a club who isn't Turkish who would be in for him - maybe a mid-table Serie A team? What's your opinion?) and we're going to win the league in the season that he's been on the pitch the least since we last won it.

 

Everyone's happy.

Edited April 21, 201511 yr by Blue Daze

Oh there's a shock...stories out there now saying Drogba will be fine for Sunday, possibly Remy and Costa too...knew it was bollox

Where are these stories?

Spotted first one on Drogba in the Independent a few hours ago, another on all three strikers in the mirror

Where are these stories?

 

Also Drogba didn't take part in the United Nations-backed Match for Peace (charity match) last night. Apparently a gooner has pissed The Mighty DD off because DD said he was nursing an ankle injury. I take it this gooner doesn't realize who The Mighty DD is. The last time I checked, The Mighty DD was the gooner killa. Oh no, the gooners have seem to motivated The Mighty DD into action. I did noticed The Mighty DD in practice today on Blues News. Come on DD, just one more goal to ice the title race!!!

I love our fans

Edited April 21, 201511 yr by Frawdulant

Also Drogba didn't take part in the United Nations-backed Match for Peace (charity match) last night. Apparently a gooner has pissed The Mighty DD off because DD said he was nursing an ankle injury. I take it this gooner doesn't realize who The Mighty DD is. The last time I checked, The Mighty DD was the gooner killa. Oh no, the gooners have seem to motivated The Mighty DD into action. I did noticed The Mighty DD in practice today on Blues News. Come on DD, just one more goal to ice the title race!!!

To be fair the gooner saw right through his withdrawl like most people should have done...there was just no need to be a dick about it and act the big bollox on twitter, especially to Didier who has done more for those less fortunate than any footballer I know

Edited April 21, 201511 yr by The Brit

 

I think Cahill has recovered his form magnificently and was superb at the weekend. It means we have options there and also use Zouma in midfield if we place tough opposition, but once again we're talking about maybe half-a-dozen games. 

 

As for him being a midfielder, I think he does a very specific job. Do I want him there for games where we dominate possession? No. But for those games we have Fabregas, Matic, Oscar and Loftus-Cheek, plus any potential acquisitions.

 

 

 

Agreed on Cahill, I am hoping that his drop in form was a mere blip, and that that little bar steward Harry Kane will be forgotten about and playing for Sunderland in three years' time! (ultimately securing his legacy as the 'new Defoe')

 

Zouma's lack of versatility in the role is ultimately the problem with him as an all-round backup defensive midfielder. If Zouma is only good for half-a-dozen games out of a fifty game season, he's not a backup, he's a man for a specific occasion, an occasion Mikel also happens to excel at, while also being able to fill in as a defensive midfielder more generally, and while also being able to play in tandem with Matic.

 

 

 

We replaced Mikel because we actually had possession of the ball and needed someone who could offer something going forwards as well as backwards.

 

 

 

...against a League Two side built around counter-attacking football and defensive solidity. We were basically guaranteed possession regardless of who was playing, we took him off because we had ten minutes in which to score and goal and needed somebody more direct, knowing that Shrewsbury would never press for a win with the prospect of a replay at Stamford Bridge on the cards.

 

 

 

Actually I believe I brought that up in relation to why the Stamford Bridge faithful have taken to Zouma in a way they never did to Mikel. You haven't answered that and that's understandable.

 

 

 

I did answer it. Whether you ignore any response which contradicts your argument is your prerogative I suppose, but then it should come to no surprise to you when people accuse you of wanting to start arguments just to cause trouble. If you're interested I mentioned Deschamps.

 

 

 

I recall that game not being televised so I'm wondering how many of the 90 minutes you actually saw.

 

I actually think it's mightily unfair to say Fabregas has no defensive instincts but I think this is a case of you rubbishing Cesc to make the case for Mikel look stronger. I think Cesc reads the game tremendously and gets himself into fantastic positions to compliment the work Matic and Oscar do in different areas of the pitch, but we'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

 

 

Ah! The condescending reference to match attendance has resurfaced, as predictably as a 30-yard shot from Gerrard when Liverpool are chasing the game; I was wondering where that old chestnut had got to! All we need now is an accusation of cowardice, an indignant declaration that you would never say anything online that you wouldn't say in person, a conclusion that we should sort things out at the pub because 'that's what men do' and the whole formulaic routine will be complete! Interestingly, note how the actual argument I made in regards to the match went completely ignored... funny that.

 

It also takes an outstanding amount of projection for you to suggest that somebody else might make an argument for reasons that are other than their genuine holding of that opinion. For example, the utterly ludicrous suggestion that Fabregas has better defensive instincts than Mikel. Fabregas reads the game brilliantly... when we're on the ball. When we're off the ball he offers little in terms of holding shape, less than everyone else in the team bar Hazard.

 

14 were on target according to the BBC....and that doesn't include the penalty which hit the bar. Still, less than the 34 chances created by Bayern in the final.

Apparently we had 27% of possession in that game as well.

 

Neither is a ringing endorsement of the man. We were incredibly lucky in both matches.

 

I think this is pointless though. To be honest discussions about Mikel are so passé and have been since we bought Matic. Let's just say that he's been here a while, he doesn't cost much and no-one who has the resources to pay his wages would probably want him (again, love to here of a club who isn't Turkish who would be in for him - maybe a mid-table Serie A team? What's your opinion?) and we're going to win the league in the season that he's been on the pitch the least since we last won it.

 

Everyone's happy.

 

The BBC's stats (and analysis for that matter) have about as much credibility as their creche service.

 

It was a penalty which Mikel had no role in giving away (and nonetheless still a shot off target). Meireles missed an interception (which I wouldn't really blame him for, it was a very quick one-two), before Drogba slid in late on Fabregas.

 

34 chances... 7 of which were on target, 22 of which were blocked. There hasn't been a Champions League victory since I have been watching football which didn't include some element of luck, each one also included a huge dose of merit. I suppose your desperation to discredit Mikel for being a key factor in our Champions League victory is funny in light of you accusing me of doing the same with Fabregas.

 

Passé perhaps, then again Creedence Clearwater Revival are passé but I still consider them better and more relevant than the dreck that gets passed off as music nowadays.

 

Ah yes, the double win, the season in which Mikel started more than half of our games, and perhaps more if he hadn't suffered an injury in April. Ballack at DM was a fun experiment though, it actually suited him quite well.

 

I did enjoy your attempt to portray being a long-serving, trophy-winning, low-cost backup with a good attitude and who loves the club as a bad thing, but in the sad event that he were to leave, I know Arsenal have finally figured out that they need a defensive midfielder, I know Man Utd need someone who can do Michael Carrick's job during the 50% of the season that he is injured, he could play for basically any club in Serie A, and I know Schalke have a manager who likes him and who might be looking for someone a little more natural and reliable than Hoger. I would also be interested to see the experiment of Mikel as a centre back for Barcelona, à la Mascherano/Song.

I love our fans

Love them too

Edited April 21, 201511 yr by Chelsea forever1

The Voyeur will be expecting us to 'park the old double decker' on Sunday...perhaps Jose should give him a heart attack and a huge amount of stress by playing a 4-4-2 with two strikers and four attacking midfielders plus two attacking wing backs and see how his Arsenal team cope with that.  

 

Would like to see Dave and Luis play and sit Ivan out for this one, again as he has done all season long, I thought Ivan left far too bigger hole on the right against Utd which can easily be exploited by the better teams, so you can expect Sanchez filling that space up which will create a few chances I am sure.  Can't see us losing this one but grab an early goal and it will be 3 points all day long.  

 

Edited April 22, 201511 yr by CFCCAN

I think Wenger will betray his style and play a deep defending, counter attacking game. Sure, if they win, they have a chance to catch us on top of the bragging rights. However if they lose, they could be dragged back into the battle for the 2nd/3rd. I'm sure Wenger doesn't want another year going through the qualification. A dull draw would do for both teams, and give me some valuable sleep time on Sunday night 

I think Wenger will betray his style and play a deep defending, counter attacking game. Sure, if they win, they have a chance to catch us on top of the bragging rights. However if they lose, they could be dragged back into the battle for the 2nd/3rd. I'm sure Wenger doesn't want another year going through the qualification. A dull draw would do for both teams, and give me some valuable sleep time on Sunday night

Yeah I think he will too but unlike us he'll grow impatient with it and try to attack us towards the end.

I want Drogba to score a last minute goal.

I love our fans

That's what going to happen on Sunday. We are going to conquer Emirates! C"mon you blues. #KTBFFH.

Agreed on Cahill, I am hoping that his drop in form was a mere blip, and that that little bar steward Harry Kane will be forgotten about and playing for Sunderland in three years' time! (ultimately securing his legacy as the 'new Defoe')

 

Zouma's lack of versatility in the role is ultimately the problem with him as an all-round backup defensive midfielder. If Zouma is only good for half-a-dozen games out of a fifty game season, he's not a backup, he's a man for a specific occasion, an occasion Mikel also happens to excel at, while also being able to fill in as a defensive midfielder more generally, and while also being able to play in tandem with Matic.

 

 

I think this is where our disagreement stems from. Whilst I could make an argument for Mikel being useful in certain situations and cheap in relation to other players, I think the number of instances that he would be useful is very limited. I think our first choice midfield is perfect for 85-90% of matches, Zouma is suitable for the other 10-15% and any other time we use him is a waste of minutes that could be used to develop youngsters.

 

 

 

I did answer it. Whether you ignore any response which contradicts your argument is your prerogative I suppose, but then it should come to no surprise to you when people accuse you of wanting to start arguments just to cause trouble. If you're interested I mentioned Deschamps.

 

 

Deschamps was here for a season late in his career and had a slow start but developed into a well-liked player. I recall the way he was viewed differently from you I think but that's fine.

 

 

 

Ah! The condescending reference to match attendance has resurfaced, as predictably as a 30-yard shot from Gerrard when Liverpool are chasing the game; I was wondering where that old chestnut had got to! All we need now is an accusation of cowardice, an indignant declaration that you would never say anything online that you wouldn't say in person, a conclusion that we should sort things out at the pub because 'that's what men do' and the whole formulaic routine will be complete! Interestingly, note how the actual argument I made in regards to the match went completely ignored... funny that.

 

 

How on Earth is asking if you actually watched a match 'condescending'? Sorry, but I've just lost a lot of respect for you with that. You want to talk about a match then demonstrate some actual knowledge of it, because you haven't thus far. You've decided to make ad hominem attacks because I dared to ask you whether you actually SAW A MATCH THAT YOU ARE COMMENTING ON. 

 

How pathetic. Seriously. 

 

If you didn't see it and don't want to admit that then simply act with a bit of maturity and say so.

 

As for the rest of the post, why on Earth would I say any of that sh*t? Have you insulted me? NO. In fact you've conducted yourself with class, with knowledge and with a great level of respect....right up until this point. Why ruin it?

 

We may disagree on Mikel but we're two Chelsea fans disagreeing on something respectfully, without resorting to insults. Then you have to do this. It's disappointing. I've read many of your posts agreeing with many, and the ones I don't I often find well-reasoned and insightful. Like I said, it's a shame.

 

Passé perhaps, then again Creedence Clearwater Revival are passé but I still consider them better and more relevant than the dreck that gets passed off as music nowadays.

 

I like CCR. Their music is still relevant.

 

 

I did enjoy your attempt to portray being a long-serving, trophy-winning, low-cost backup with a good attitude and who loves the club as a bad thing, but in the sad event that he were to leave, I know Arsenal have finally figured out that they need a defensive midfielder, I know Man Utd need someone who can do Michael Carrick's job during the 50% of the season that he is injured, he could play for basically any club in Serie A, and I know Schalke have a manager who likes him and who might be looking for someone a little more natural and reliable than Hoger. I would also be interested to see the experiment of Mikel as a centre back for Barcelona, à la Mascherano/Song.

 

And I guarantee he won't go to any of those when he leaves. 

 

Thanks for the discussion. You made some great points but lets just leave it and enjoy the rest of the season. KTBFFH.

Apparently if Arsenal win it puts down a 'marker' for next season. How absurd.

I thought you made a whole set of valid points about the man's character, Plokkers.  His total lack of self-awareness is astonishing.  

 

And no, BD, there is no "PM Conspiracy" that you seem to have identified in some strange fit of paranoia.  People are saying thing about you openly.  As several people have said, you arrive, appear to get into an argument in nearly every thread you "contribute" to, usually with long-standing and well-respected posters, get called out on it and then say something disingenuous about how it's just your style and you're sorry if you offended and it won't happen again, and then just carry on in exactly the same way.

 

I'm an older gentleman, so am not truly aware of the full meaning of "internet troll", but, having looked it up I find your behaviour in this forum from day one has displayed all of the attributes of a "Playtime Troll" with some of the more pernicious attributes of a "Tactical Troll".

 

I have you on ignore, but buggers keep on quoting your repetitive nonsense.  Maybe other people will realise the best way forward is "Don't feed the troll"

I want Drogba to score a last minute goal.

Oh yes, or any Drogba goal for me. Would love Costa to score at least one. Come on you BLUES.

I thought you made a whole set of valid points about the man's character, Plokkers.  His total lack of self-awareness is astonishing.  

 

And no, BD, there is no "PM Conspiracy" that you seem to have identified in some strange fit of paranoia.  People are saying thing about you openly.  As several people have said, you arrive, appear to get into an argument in nearly every thread you "contribute" to, usually with long-standing and well-respected posters, get called out on it and then say something disingenuous about how it's just your style and you're sorry if you offended and it won't happen again, and then just carry on in exactly the same way.

 

I'm an older gentleman, so am not truly aware of the full meaning of "internet troll", but, having looked it up I find your behaviour in this forum from day one has displayed all of the attributes of a "Playtime Troll" with some of the more pernicious attributes of a "Tactical Troll".

 

I have you on ignore, but buggers keep on quoting your repetitive nonsense.  Maybe other people will realise the best way forward is "Don't feed the troll"

You forgot the pint in the pub.