But he's not a good defender, in fact he's a pretty average defender. You did not win the CL because of Luiz... or the Europa for that matter.

And, as for the World Cup... well that's really not a great example is it. 1) Brazil reached the semi-final and... 2) He was part of the defence that got beat 7-1 in that game.

Again you are posting complete drivel.

He was a big reason we won that final...did you see him in that game? He was superb

I have basically given you a list of trophies and accomplishments he achieved that made his price as inflated as it was..what has Stones done? Compared to Luiz he's done hee haw, he won hee haw and comparing them makes you look and sound like a fool.

This is funny. If he wants to leave, youre not getting 40m. The minute he hands in a request his price drops, regardless of how proven he is. And it seems since he's not for sale that would be the only way he's leaving barring a Bosman. Your club have painted themselves in a corner.

 

How have you come to this conclusion? So far the only club making fools out of themselves are Chelsea.

 

He has at no point said he wants to leave. And we won't be forced into selling him. Something that a lot of you lot (including your manager) can't seem to grasp.

 

It's likely that Stones will leave next year because if his development continues like this, then there will be a bidding war, and the likes of you guys, City, Utd etc. will come calling again. Not because Stones is going to demand a transfer, but because we may have accepted that the time is right to cash in on him.

 

We haven't reached that point yet.

 

Is this what having unlimited funds does to fans? Just completely desensitises them to how other clubs do business? 

I don't think we'll get him.

Kenwright has used up all his goodwill, and he knows it. There was a banner flown above the ground during their opening game, telling him to go.

We'll probably make one last big bid and then it'll be all on Stones, but will he demand a move? It doesn't look like it, given he has had plenty of time, given we started bidding ages ago.

Even if we make this big bid, I can see Everton saying no.

Might be wrong but it's just the way it's looking to me.

Again you are posting complete drivel.

He was a big reason we won that final...did you see him in that game? He was superb

I have basically given you a list of trophies and accomplishments he achieved that made his price as inflated as it was..what has Stones done? Compared to Luiz he's done hee haw, he won hee haw and comparing them makes you look and sound like a fool.

 

Ok, I take your point about that. Now what had Luiz won when he was 21? Please tell me.

 

On that point, I reported on PSG the other night against Ajaccio. Luis was caught out 4 times against a team that had 4 counter attacks all game and 4 seasons ago were playing in the third tier of French football. He's a good player, but he's not in anyway world class, and defensively he's one of the worst CBs you've had in the last 10 years, easy. You did brilliantly to get £50mil for him. Stones has the potential to be 10x the player Luiz currently is. Just as Zouma does.

I'm not trying to wind you guys up here, I think this thread is pretty good at having very decent debates. But it just seems the general attitude is that little old Everton should be bending over backwards for the might of Chelsea...

 

Whether Stones leaves us or not this window, your guys' trip up to Goodison on Sept.12th will be, err, interesting, to say the least.

How have you come to this conclusion? So far the only club making fools out of themselves are Chelsea.

He has at no point said he wants to leave. And we won't be forced into selling him. Something that a lot of you lot (including your manager) can't seem to grasp.

It's likely that Stones will leave next year because if his development continues like this, then there will be a bidding war, and the likes of you guys, City, Utd etc. will come calling again. Not because Stones is going to demand a transfer, but because we may have accepted that the time is right to cash in on him.

We haven't reached that point yet.

Is this what having unlimited funds does to fans? Just completely desensitises them to how other clubs do business?

Chelsea aren't making fools of themselves, they're simply trying to buy a player. As for Mourinho being unable to accept you won't be forced into selling, again complete drivel. I'll repeat, he's simply going back and going back, because he wants him, and he's perfectly right to try.

Stop being such a pompous twat.

Chelsea aren't making fools of themselves, they're simply trying to buy a player. As for Mourinho being unable to accept you won't be forced into selling, again complete drivel. I'll repeat, he's simply going back and going back, because he wants him, and he's perfectly right to try.

Stop being such a pompous twat.

 

Pompous? Ok.

 

I've already said that most Evertonians have absolutely no issue with clubs bidding for our players. That's football. But it seemed that a lot of Chelsea fans and the media can't get to grips with the fact we don't want to sell him - unless you offer us silly silly money.

How have you come to this conclusion? So far the only club making fools out of themselves are Chelsea.

He has at no point said he wants to leave. And we won't be forced into selling him. Something that a lot of you lot (including your manager) can't seem to grasp.

It's likely that Stones will leave next year because if his development continues like this, then there will be a bidding war, and the likes of you guys, City, Utd etc. will come calling again. Not because Stones is going to demand a transfer, but because we may have accepted that the time is right to cash in on him.

We haven't reached that point yet.

Is this what having unlimited funds does to fans? Just completely desensitises them to how other clubs do business?

If 40m doesnt get it done now, how can Everton expect to get more next summer IF you decide to sell him? You think clubs will come in with 50m offers for him, thats fine. I however dont imagine the tops clubs would be interested in paying that if only one is interested in paying 35-40 right now. Players are not appreciating assests.

Id also imagine we'll sign another CB between now and then which kills our interest in Stones. Good luck praying for a bidding war between Arsenal and Liverpool.

The stance youve taken against a completely reasonable offer means youve left his future up to him. I look forward to your clubs explanation when he leaves for less than we've offered now.

Id also argue 35m for a young defender is a silly sum.

Edited August 18, 201510 yr by TheChelseaBlues

I'll put it this way then, without trying to sound too pompous.

 

It makes no sense for Everton to sell this summer, not just to Chelsea, but to anybody.

 

That's why we are demanding so much money. We don't need to sell, he hasn't said he wants to go, and he is key to our plans. 

If 40m doesnt get it done now, how can Everton expect to get more next summer IF you decide to sell him? You think clubs will come in with 50m offers for him, thats fine. I however dont imagine the tops clubs would be interested in paying that if only one is interested in paying 35-40 right now. Players are not appreciating assests.

Id also imagine we'll sign another CB between now and then which kills our interest in Stones. Good luck praying for a bidding war between Arsenal and Liverpool.

The stance youve taken against a completely reasonable offer means youve left his future up to him. I look forward to your clubs explanation when he leaves for less than we've offered now.

 

Well we're never going to sell a player to Liverpool. City and Utd are both interested, and were this summer, but don't want to pay what we are demanding yet. 

 

I think EFC would rather have Stones for this season safe in the knowledge that his value is not going to decrease dramatically. We'd rather have another year of him in our team for the sake of a few million - we're not that skint.

 

And surely,  a player of Stones' age is only going to go up in value? He's 21 and safely in the top talents in the English game.

I'll put it this way then, without trying to sound too pompous.

It makes no sense for Everton to sell this summer, not just to Chelsea, but to anybody.

That's why we are demanding so much money. We don't need to sell, he hasn't said he wants to go, and he is key to our plans.

We've all been beaten over the head with that. I understand you dont need or want to sell. In my opinion you can keep him as long as you like. Im just excited to see him go on the cheap next summer or after and reading your clubs explanation

We've all been beaten over the head with that. I understand you dont need or want to sell. In my opinion you can keep him as long as you like. Im just excited to see him go on the cheap next summer or after and reading your clubs explanation

 

He won't go on the cheap next summer, though. But okay, we'll agree to disagree, I guess.

Edited August 18, 201510 yr by BlueToff

Well we're never going to sell a player to Liverpool. City and Utd are both interested, and were this summer, but don't want to pay what we are demanding yet.

I think EFC would rather have Stones for this season safe in the knowledge that his value is not going to decrease dramatically. We'd rather have another year of him in our team for the sake of a few million - we're not that skint.

And surely, a player of Stones' age is only going to go up in value? He's 21 and safely in the top talents in the English game.

For one his value could easily come down. He could request a transfer, pick up an injury or play poorly. All distinct possibilities.

The bit about City and United is what I find funny. They wont pay his fee now, but they'll pay double next season.

City have the best CB in the league and a 30m player next to him.

United have spent hundreds of millions on players who they probably arent likely to be interested in replacing a year or two on. Even if they are interested, who are they going to be bidding against?

Ok, I take your point about that. Now what had Luiz won when he was 21? Please tell me.

 

On that point, I reported on PSG the other night against Ajaccio. Luis was caught out 4 times against a team that had 4 counter attacks all game and 4 seasons ago were playing in the third tier of French football. He's a good player, but he's not in anyway world class, and defensively he's one of the worst CBs you've had in the last 10 years, easy. You did brilliantly to get £50mil for him. Stones has the potential to be 10x the player Luiz currently is. Just as Zouma does.

A lot of the comparisons seem erroneous to me.  Luiz wasnt being touted around as a 40million, aka World Class or one of the best in the world, CB at 21.

 

Stones is worth a ton because he has potential to be a great defender?  Because Luiz went for 50million? Well Luiz went for 50 million yet wasnt a great defender.  Azpiliqueta was 7million and is a great defender.  See what I did there?  Their valuations are erroneous in my mind.

 

Personally I'm all for Everton keeping him if they really want, most of us can certainly still relate the the struggles of trying to keep your best players from big purse string clubs.  Heck, we might even be forced to give a youth a shot and them proving they deserve it, who knows.

 

 Im just wondering, since Stones is a world class talent worth 40million, when are Everton going to reflect that in his weekly wages?  You can bet that if Stones and his agents don't have his ehad turned by other clubs, they will be turned by the fact that EFC feel he is worth over 40million yet only having him on 30k a week.  He isnt even in the top 6 earners at Everton, is he?

Well we're never going to sell a player to Liverpool. City and Utd are both interested, and were this summer, but don't want to pay what we are demanding yet. 

 

I think EFC would rather have Stones for this season safe in the knowledge that his value is not going to decrease dramatically. We'd rather have another year of him in our team for the sake of a few million - we're not that skint.

 

And surely,  a player of Stones' age is only going to go up in value? He's 21 and safely in the top talents in the English game.

Tell that to Andy Carrol.  If Im correct, valued at 35million when 21 (or just turned 22) and then 18 months later, worth 15million....now who knows. 

 

You're having a laugh if you think Stones' value can only go up.  I'd say, judging history, its probably more likely to go down.  Theres never a shortage of potential world class youth's yet despite that, world class players are quite hard to come by....funny how that works

 

Edit: Im not casting judgement on Stones, just how for every dozen youth projected to be world class, maybe maybe maybe one of them actually pan out as such.

 

Lets be fair though, lets say that Stones proves to be the best CB under 25 next season in Europe.  How much do you think his value will increase from this 35-40mil range? 

Do you think the increase will be significant enough to offset the extremely high inflation in the industry?  You might get more money, but you also have to realise it'll become more and more expensive to replace him as well.  You've also talked about business sense so I'm sure you are well aware of how present value of money works ($100 today is worth more than $100 tomorrow).

 

Im not acting like any authority here but my opinion, in light of the new huge money deals for all clubs and the huge industry inflations, but I wouldnt be 100% certain that 50million the next summer will be any better than 35-40million this summer.  This summer you're competing with the top table for those calibur/cost of players but once BPL clubs get used to the new huge TV deals, you might find your facing way more competition which leads to even higher prices.  

 

Of course, Im sure Everton have better minds than my own considering these factors.

 

Edit edit: and considering the hype Everton are placing on Stones, he has to be exceptional to further impress.  Its certaily going to be far easier for him to dissapoint the new standards that will be applied to him under his currect valuation.

Edited August 18, 201510 yr by Barry Bridges

This whole saga is a joke. I cant see why we havent just bought someone else and moved on or paid them off already

It'll be proper funny if we sign him just to see the scousers do what they do best.

Mourn and whinge about it.

Tell that to Andy Carrol.  If Im correct, valued at 35million when 21 (or just turned 22) and then 18 months later, worth 15million....now who knows. 

 

You're having a laugh if you think Stones' value can only go up.  I'd say, judging history, its probably more likely to go down.  Theres never a shortage of potential world class youth's yet despite that, world class players are quite hard to come by....funny how that works

 

Edit: Im not casting judgement on Stones, just how for every dozen youth projected to be world class, maybe maybe maybe one of them actually pan out as such.

 

Lets be fair though, lets say that Stones proves to be the best CB under 25 next season in Europe.  How much do you think his value will increase from this 35-40mil range? 

Do you think the increase will be significant enough to offset the extremely high inflation in the industry?  You might get more money, but you also have to realise it'll become more and more expensive to replace him as well.  You've also talked about business sense so I'm sure you are well aware of how present value of money works ($100 today is worth more than $100 tomorrow).

 

Im not acting like any authority here but my opinion, in light of the new huge money deals for all clubs and the huge industry inflations, but I wouldnt be 100% certain that 50million the next summer will be any better than 35-40million this summer.  This summer you're competing with the top table for those calibur/cost of players but once BPL clubs get used to the new huge TV deals, you might find your facing way more competition which leads to even higher prices.  

 

Of course, Im sure Everton have better minds than my own considering these factors.

 

Edit edit: and considering the hype Everton are placing on Stones, he has to be exceptional to further impress.  Its certaily going to be far easier for him to dissapoint the new standards that will be applied to him under his currect valuation.

 

Take your point on Carroll.I should have made it more clear. Many Evertonians don't think Stones is a one-trick pony and he is only going to get better and better. That's why we'd be fuming if he left this summer.

 

I think that at this point in time, Stones' value is around the £30mil mark. I'd say his value to us at this point is a lot more than that. And yes, you're definitely right about the inflation, of course. But I believe we'd rather have him with us for another year at the least, and take that risk, than sell him now with little time to replace him. If he goes next year, I reckon it'll all be done early, like Sterling this season.

 

And as a previous poster said, you guys don't like being told that he's not for sale over again, well we don't like being told by the media that, even though we've said no sale, that he's going to go anyway.

Stones is from Barnsley no? Even if we agree a fee he may not want to move down sarf... if City sign Otamendi I don't think they'll be interested (this summer or next), which just leaves United....

Edited August 18, 201510 yr by the special one

Not sure why so many get so annoyed about this. Cannot say either club has made the best of this situation.

Personally I do not see everton selling him. Could have put out a statement from the board saying he is not sale at any price, like west brom just did with their young forward. Very simple.

Likewise if everton do have a price and Jose really wants him either pay it or stop pissing around with it.

Edited August 18, 201510 yr by axman2526

Let me ask this of you BlueToff, as an Everton fan would you be happy if a deal was done that allowed Stones to stay on loan for a season for say around 35million with very generous add on pending how he/Everton do this season ( and including the typical how he'd do later at CFC) that could go up an extra 10 million or so?

Edit: I'm also sure New Castle fans thought the same of Carroll but that's football. A more fickle business you will not find.

Edited August 18, 201510 yr by Barry Bridges

Telegraph says we are waiting for Stones reaction before we make another bid.

Wish the player would put an end to this either way

Pompous? Ok.

 

I've already said that most Evertonians have absolutely no issue with clubs bidding for our players. That's football. But it seemed that a lot of Chelsea fans and the media can't get to grips with the fact we don't want to sell him - unless you offer us silly silly money.

City, Man U and Arsenal (and the refs association?) didn't want us to win the title last season, lucky we didn't listen to them either...this is a business, a business where you have to win when you are a club like Chelsea, we want our man, we are going after him before said bidding war which makes good sense to anyone with half a clue, now suppose that martinez wants to have a whinge or we ruffle some feathers with Evertonians...well that's more than acceptable to us if we get our man in a timely fashion 

City, Man U and Arsenal (and the refs association?) didn't want us to win the title last season, lucky we didn't listen to them either...this is a business, a business where you have to win when you are a club like Chelsea, we want our man, we are going after him before said bidding war which makes good sense to anyone with half a clue, now suppose that martinez wants to have a whinge or we ruffle some feathers with Evertonians...well that's more than acceptable to us if we get our man in a timely fashion

 

City, Man U and Arsenal (and the refs association?) didn't want us to win the title last season, lucky we didn't listen to them either...this is a business, a business where you have to win when you are a club like Chelsea, we want our man, we are going after him before said bidding war which makes good sense to anyone with half a clue, now suppose that martinez wants to have a whinge or we ruffle some feathers with Evertonians...well that's more than acceptable to us if we get our man in a timely fashion

 

Good first post that...Winning becomes addictive, try it.