Why has the quality of the Premier League dropped?

[Ernie_blue]

Because the sides don't tend to take it seriously like say we or Spurs did.

It's common knowledge they field weekend sides to focus on the league.

Oh right that's the reason ;)

[Chelsbear]

Didn't happen in 2008

I didn't say it always happens but the majority of times it does.

That's not unique to teams now.

[Ernie_blue]

In the past the top 3 teams in England could go toe to toe with the top teams in Europe and beat them, the last few years and now I think it's been pretty obvious they havnt got the same quality as the top European teams.

[HazardsLeftPeg]

Besides the fact that the top 5 or 6 players play for Real, Barca or Bayern, Spain and Germany have dominated international football over the last decade and keep producing quality players while England has struggled. 

 

The premier league has players from the next tier, the likes of Aguero, Sanchez, Hazard, Silva but a combination of bad coaching and under performing stars have seen us struggle in Europe.

 

Looking at this season in particular, Hazard and Silva have 2 goals between them all season, Sanchez hasn't scored in about 11 if I'm not mistaken, Hard to explain why they have all fallen off so badly, but you can see why the level at the top has dropped.

Edited March 3, 2016 by footballoholic

[TheChelseaBlues]

Having quality players isn't good enough alone. This Chelsea team is nothing on first Mourinhos teams. That team was a machine. Lampard, Cech, Carvalho, Terry, Maka, Essien joining. Drogba. It won the league on record points not because everyone else was poor, because that team was of a high quality with a high quality manager.

Like I said City should of run away with this league. They have quality players but they have had a lot of injuries, I don't rate Pellegrini as a manager who keeps playing Toure in a 2 man midfield. There defensive signings have been a joke. If they just signed Williams or Reid from West Ham they would of been a lot better signings.

Put the top 3 teams in England against the top 3 in Spain and Spain will nearly always win.

When's the last time this wasn't true? I'm not disagreeing, just saying this isn't a new phenomenon. Real Madrid will be favored over anyone here and there's only one team that can beat Barca (us) consistently. Instead of asking about the top 3, why not compare the bottom? Would you take the bottom 10 teams in Spain against the bottom 10 in England atm? Hell, not just Spain, any other league. I'd even go so far as to say the teams 5-20 are better in England than any other league.

 

Sure there is probably no elite English team at the moment. But the quality of the league hasn't dropped a bit. It's gotten more competitive. I'd say the quality has actually gone up starting at the bottom. Look at the talent on the relegation teams. Compare that to the teams Reading or Wolves used to field.

 

The very top teams here may have dropped in quality but that's due to the rest of the clubs in the PL raising their quality in terms of bringing in better players and keeping the good ones at the club. If John Stones has a good season at Everton in 2005 instead of 2015, he's sold in 2006. Eventually English teams will be the big hitters in Europe again, it may take us losing a CL spo,t but Bayern, Madrid and Barca aren't going to dominate football for the next 15 years.

[Ernie_blue]

When's the last time this wasn't true? I'm not disagreeing, just saying this isn't a new phenomenon. Real Madrid will be favored over anyone here and there's only one team that can beat Barca (us) consistently. Instead of asking about the top 3, why not compare the bottom? Would you take the bottom 10 teams in Spain against the bottom 10 in England atm? Hell, not just Spain, any other league. I'd even go so far as to say the teams 5-20 are better in England than any other league.

 

Sure there is probably no elite English team at the moment. But the quality of the league hasn't dropped a bit. It's gotten more competitive. I'd say the quality has actually gone up starting at the bottom. Look at the talent on the relegation teams. Compare that to the teams Reading or Wolves used to field.

 

The very top teams here may have dropped in quality but that's due to the rest of the clubs in the PL raising their quality in terms of bringing in better players and keeping the good ones at the club. If John Stones has a good season at Everton in 2005 instead of 2015, he's sold in 2006. Eventually English teams will be the big hitters in Europe again, it may take us losing a CL spo,t but Bayern, Madrid and Barca aren't going to dominate football for the next 15 years.

But at the same time it could be said would a Chelsea team from 2005, the Arsenal Invicibles and the Man Utd teams would dominate this league, maybe even get record points.

I do agree the standard of some of the lower teams is better, Stoke, West Ham etc but then look at Villa. I don't think the standard of the lower teams has had a direct effect on the bigger teams. I feel this has just been one of them weird seasons where City, Chelsea and Utd have really underperformed and next year they will be back in the top 4.

Like I said it's been a weird but entertaining season but I won't be suprised if the top teams are back at the top contesting the league and Leicester mid table.

[lesblues]

If every year in the premier league could be this unpredictable, I'd probably take it.

Amen mate

[offside]

Has it? Perhaps at the very top, but I'm not convinced the overall quality has dropped.

How would the mid table and lower table Premier League teams do against the mid table and lower table La Liga and Bundesliga teams? I don't know and until I do, I can't accept the conclusion that the quality in the Premier League is worse than in La Liga or Bundesliga.

Standings within the Premier League are quite competitive, this year especially so. That suggests that quality has been spread out rather than pushed toward the top. To me, that is a very good thing even if it means sacrificing some Champions League results.

[Ernie_blue]

Rather win the league by 10 points than lose it on the last day like Utd did against City. But I could always think that was unpredictable so makes it better ;)

[ShedEnder91]

Has it? Perhaps at the very top, but I'm not convinced the overall quality has dropped.

 

 

So the question is why has the quality at the top end of the table dropped? 

 

Standings within the Premier League are quite competitive, this year especially so. That suggests that quality has been spread out rather than pushed toward the top. To me, that is a very good thing even if it means sacrificing some Champions League results.

 

Is it a very good thing if the top teams aren't top, top class though? Do we just give up competing with the Bayerns and Barcas of this world and take solace in having a competitive domestic league?

 

You say that's a 'very good thing' but I think what's better is to see the very best possible teams in England who are capable of being the best in the world. That's what I think we should be striving towards.

 

This season is unpredictable, but not because Leicester are now a great team reaching the level of other great teams. They're a poor team in the context of league-winning sides, on an amazing run aided by the standard of the other teams dropping to levels we might not have seen in well over a decade. That can't be a good thing for this league in the long-term.

[EmeraldBlue]

Slightly off topic but is anyone else thinking that we could have been real contenders this year if Mourinho's hadn't thrown his toys out of the pram earlier in the season?

[ShedEnder91]

Slightly off topic but is anyone else thinking that we could have been real contenders this year if Mourinho's hadn't thrown his toys out of the pram earlier in the season?

 

We'd have walked the league if we had the same summer in 2015 that we had 12 months earlier. Club f**ked up, it's not all Jose's fault.

[Remodez]

But shouldn't the increased competition have made the teams stronger, more resilient?

 

Or are you saying the increased buying power of the 'weaker' teams has meant there's more competition for players which stops talent pooling at the top?

 

I'm not a rocket surgeon so I'm a little unclear on what you're saying. Might have another crack at it after a coffee.

It will, you just have to give the top teams time to adjust to it. 

[TheChelseaBlues]

It will, you just have to give the top teams time to adjust to it. 

That's the answer I'd lean toward as well. The top clubs will adjust, the gap has gotten smaller for the time being but it will open back up once clubs realize they aren't going to get away with lackluster performances away to Bournemouth or Leicester. The days of pounding teams 7-0 are over.

[chi blue]

One thing I do know now, after all the sh*t that went on with the club uptill Xmas, whether it was board, Jose or players, I reckon a bit of everyone, we would of cruised league again, longest unbeaten run in prem this season now I think, sad to see teams above us, that in all honesty aren't as good as us, this is a season that got away!!

[SydneyChelsea]

Slightly off topic but is anyone else thinking that we could have been real contenders this year if Mourinho's hadn't thrown his toys out of the pram earlier in the season?

Absolutely.

And while Barcelona were a force with Ronaldinho in the fold, at the same time Real Madrid were getting beaten by the likes of Arsenal and really weren't a force in the Champions League until around 2013. There was still amazing depth in LA Liga, with likes of Sevilla, Valencia, Betis, Villarreal etc all being very strong.

[gojo_ed]

Overall quality has increased- teams like West Ham/Stoke/Spurs are a level above their equivalents a decade ago. Remember an Everton team with Gravesen and Carsley finished fourth with barely 60 points!

 

In terms of the top 4, I think each of the traditional big guns have weakened in Europe for a variety of reasons...

 

Man Utd- Loss of Ferguson hugely damaging, having to service cost of debt from Glazers was always going to bite them in the long term.

Arsenal- Post Vieira/Henry they've not done anything of note, to be brutal- partly due to paying off of Emirates but also through naive management and poor squad choices.

Liverpool- Poor management choices (Hodgson/Dalglish) and loss of some very good players- Alonso/Torres (in form)/Mascherano/Gerrard are a different level to what they have now

Us- We've made a conscious effort of recouping what we pay in the transfer market, meaning we don't have 2 players for every position as in the mid 2000s. 

 

Just leaves City really- who although they have the ingredients, do they have the great defence to make strides in Europe? When you think of us, United, and Liverpool- the 3 teams who really represented us in the CL (Arsenal with one final and one semi isn't really comparable), each team had world-class defences ca. 2008.

 

Essien/Ferreira---Carvalho---JT---A Cole

 

Brown/Rafael---Vidic---Ferdinand---Evra

 

Finnan/Arbeloa---Carragher---Agger/Hyppia---Riise/Aurelio

 

Ok on second thoughts Liverpool probably wasn't world class, but Benitez set them up well in Europe. None of the English teams at the moment know how to set up defensively which hurts hugely against the big guns.

Edited March 3, 2016 by gojo_ed

[lesblues]

Overall quality has increased- teams like West Ham/Stoke/Spurs are a level above their equivalents a decade ago. Remember an Everton team with Gravesen and Carsley finished fourth with barely 60 points!

In terms of the top 4, I think each of the traditional big guns have weakened in Europe for a variety of reasons...

Man Utd- Loss of Ferguson hugely damaging, having to service cost of debt from Glazers was always going to bite them in the long term.

Arsenal- Post Vieira/Henry they've not done anything of note, to be brutal- partly due to paying off of Emirates but also through naive management and poor squad choices.

Liverpool- Poor management choices (Hodgson/Dalglish) and loss of some very good players- Alonso/Torres (in form)/Mascherano/Gerrard are a different level to what they have now

Us- We've made a conscious effort of recouping what we pay in the transfer market, meaning we don't have 2 players for every position as in the mid 2000s.

Just leaves City really- who although they have the ingredients, do they have the great defence to make strides in Europe? When you think of us, United, and Liverpool- the 3 teams who really represented us in the CL (Arsenal with one final and one semi isn't really comparable), each team had world-class defences ca. 2008.

Essien/Ferreira---Carvalho---JT---A Cole

Brown/Rafael---Vidic---Ferdinand---Evra

Finnan/Arbeloa---Carragher---Agger/Hyppia---Riise/Aurelio

Ok on second thoughts Liverpool probably wasn't world class, but Benitez set them up well in Europe. None of the English teams at the moment know how to set up defensively which hurts hugely against the big guns.

Well put sir.

[Ernie_blue]

Overall quality has increased- teams like West Ham/Stoke/Spurs are a level above their equivalents a decade ago. Remember an Everton team with Gravesen and Carsley finished fourth with barely 60 points!

 

In terms of the top 4, I think each of the traditional big guns have weakened in Europe for a variety of reasons...

 

Man Utd- Loss of Ferguson hugely damaging, having to service cost of debt from Glazers was always going to bite them in the long term.

Arsenal- Post Vieira/Henry they've not done anything of note, to be brutal- partly due to paying off of Emirates but also through naive management and poor squad choices.

Liverpool- Poor management choices (Hodgson/Dalglish) and loss of some very good players- Alonso/Torres (in form)/Mascherano/Gerrard are a different level to what they have now

Us- We've made a conscious effort of recouping what we pay in the transfer market, meaning we don't have 2 players for every position as in the mid 2000s. 

 

Just leaves City really- who although they have the ingredients, do they have the great defence to make strides in Europe? When you think of us, United, and Liverpool- the 3 teams who really represented us in the CL (Arsenal with one final and one semi isn't really comparable), each team had world-class defences ca. 2008.

 

Essien/Ferreira---Carvalho---JT---A Cole

 

Brown/Rafael---Vidic---Ferdinand---Evra

 

Finnan/Arbeloa---Carragher---Agger/Hyppia---Riise/Aurelio

 

Ok on second thoughts Liverpool probably wasn't world class, but Benitez set them up well in Europe. None of the English teams at the moment know how to set up defensively which hurts hugely against the big guns.

So basically the quality of the top teams has gone down lol.

Utd have seemed to be alright spending money to me.

Arsenal simply find 4th as winning the league and Wenger is arrogant so won't sign anyone if anyone tells him he needs players.

City have made dreadful defensive signings

[PedroMendez]

I am going to say that no the quality of the premier league hasn't dropped, I would say that maybe the quality of the top 4 has dropped but when you have players like Musonda ripping apart La Liga despite not having been able to get a game for Chelsea says a lot about the quality of that league.
I also think the Champions league is a misleading judge of quality due to the different demands of the leagues around Europe with Barca, Madrid, Bayern and PSG having a much easier time of things than the rest of Europe allowing them to compete on multiple fronts, due to only having to play in second gear for most games and being able to rotate their squad to keep them fresh and fit.

Edited March 3, 2016 by PedroMendez

[lesblues]

"So basically the quality of the top teams has gone down lol".

Yes the quality of top teams has gone down. Surely you've read many say how the 2004/2005, 2005/2006 teams would slaughter this present group. I also recall having 3 english teams in the Semis of the UCL. How times change...

"Utd have seemed to be alright spending money to me".

Before the Adidas/Chevrolet deal, Utd were managing finances. Its known fact.

"Arsenal simply find 4th as winning the league and Wenger is arrogant so won't sign anyone if anyone tells him he needs players".

Won't sign anyone? (Mezut, Sanchez,Cech) or he believes he must sign only quality players

better than what he has.

"City have made dreadful defensive signings."

City have a manager who is awful at defence tactics. Otamendin, Kompany, Mangala aren't a bad much, very much have the 1st two over here.

[Ernie_blue]

"So basically the quality of the top teams has gone down lol".

Yes the quality of top teams has gone down. Surely you've read many say how the 2004/2005, 2005/2006 teams would slaughter this present group. I also recall having 3 english teams in the Semis of the UCL. How times change...

"Utd have seemed to be alright spending money to me".

Before the Adidas/Chevrolet deal, Utd were managing finances. Its known fact.

"Arsenal simply find 4th as winning the league and Wenger is arrogant so won't sign anyone if anyone tells him he needs players".

Won't sign anyone? (Mezut, Sanchez,Cech) or he believes he must sign only quality players

better than what he has.

"City have made dreadful defensive signings."

City have a manager who is awful at defence tactics. Otamendin, Kompany, Mangala aren't a bad much, very much have the 1st two over here.

So you would take Otamendin at Chelsea. He would get no where the subs bench let alone the first team. You blame Pellegrini but Kompany has done fine in years before. I bet if they signed someone like Williams instead they would of been a lot better off. I agree Pelligrini doesn't help putting Toure in CM where my nan runs faster.

I hear everyone on the telly and media saying Arsenal need a forward for years now but he never signs one. He only signed Cech because Chelsea let Arsenal have him otherwise they would still have Ospina in goal. I wasn't talking about big signings anyway was I, I said when media etc say Arsenal need a certain player, normally in the January transfer window and he never signs one.

And Man Utd have signed and spent loads of money the last few years and still went out the group stages of the champions league.

[Jolly Roger]

Emphasis on possession based attacking football. Nobody knows how to defend anymore. Bring back teams who know how to defend and you will see us successful in europe again. Owners throw money at managers who bring "excitement" "attaking football" "entertainment" blah blah blah... Not about quality, it's about the spectacle. We've got a hell of a spectacle now, but football purists lose out

I quote everything, including the space between the words and the dots.

[lesblues]

So you would take Otamendin at Chelsea. He would get no where the subs bench let alone the first team. You blame Pellegrini but Kompany has done fine in years before. I bet if they signed someone like Williams instead they would of been a lot better off. I agree Pelligrini doesn't help putting Toure in CM where my nan runs faster.

I hear everyone on the telly and media saying Arsenal need a forward for years now but he never signs one. He only signed Cech because Chelsea let Arsenal have him otherwise they would still have Ospina in goal. I wasn't talking about big signings anyway was I, I said when media etc say Arsenal need a certain player, normally in the January transfer window and he never signs one.

And Man Utd have signed and spent loads of money the last few years and still went out the group stages of the champions league.

Otamendi is a very good CB, you must not have watched him much at Valencia and when he plays for Argentina. Pellegrini's poor tactics and probably not having a grasp of the english game is making him look average. I believe he would be much much better under Pep next season.

We're saying same thing. Arsene has always believed his team is good enough, will only delve into the market when quality players become available. He's rumored to have a stubborn personality, no him not listening to tv ,media etc is no surprise.

£103,600,000 2015/2016

£145,500,000 2014/2015 ( Adidas/Chevrolet took effect)

£63,000,000 2013/2014 (Adidas/Chevrolet deals signed)

£63,000,000 2012/2013

£52,900,000 2011/2012

£27,200,000 2010/2011

£21,000,000 2009/2010

£35,750,000 2008/2009

£61,750,000 2007/2008

£18,600,000 2006/2007

£19,500,000 2005/2006

£27,200,000 2004/2005

This is Utd spending since Roman took over in '04 and Sheik in '08. The last two yrs have been when they have gone past 100million.

[lesblues]

So you would take Otamendin at Chelsea. He would get no where the subs bench let alone the first team. You blame Pellegrini but Kompany has done fine in years before. I bet if they signed someone like Williams instead they would of been a lot better off. I agree Pelligrini doesn't help putting Toure in CM where my nan runs faster.

I hear everyone on the telly and media saying Arsenal need a forward for years now but he never signs one. He only signed Cech because Chelsea let Arsenal have him otherwise they would still have Ospina in goal. I wasn't talking about big signings anyway was I, I said when media etc say Arsenal need a certain player, normally in the January transfer window and he never signs one.

And Man Utd have signed and spent loads of money the last few years and still went out the group stages of the champions league.

Otamendi is a very good CB, you must not have watched him much at Valencia and when he plays for Argentina. Pellegrini's poor tactics and probably not having a grasp of the english game is making him look average. I believe he would be much much better under Pep next season.

We're saying same thing. Arsene has always believed his team is good enough, will only delve into the market when quality players become available. He's rumored to have a stubborn personality, no him not listening to tv ,media etc is no surprise.

£103,600,000 2015/2016

£145,500,000 2014/2015 ( Adidas/Chevrolet took effect)

£63,000,000 2013/2014 (Adidas/Chevrolet deals signed)

£63,000,000 2012/2013

£52,900,000 2011/2012

£27,200,000 2010/2011

£21,000,000 2009/2010

£35,750,000 2008/2009

£61,750,000 2007/2008

£18,600,000 2006/2007

£19,500,000 2005/2006

£27,200,000 2004/2005

This is Utd spending since Roman took over in '04 and Sheik in '08. The last two yrs have been when they have gone past 100million.