Why has the quality of the Premier League dropped?

[ShedEnder91]

In 2008, Chelsea and Man United contested the Champions League Final and were the two best teams in the world. Liverpool also reached the semis that year so 3 of the last 4 were English teams. Players like Ronaldo, Terry, Cole, Drogba, Gerrard and Torres made 'UEFA Team of the Year' lists. In the last five years only Gareth Bale has featured. This year it's quite conceivable that only one English team progresses past the Round of 16.

 

Domestically the top teams are struggling. At the same stage last year Chelsea were 7 points better off than the current leaders, and now we face going into next year with a new coach, as do United, City and Arsenal potentially. Even Liverpool have only recently changed coaches.

 

So the question is why has the quality at the top end of the table dropped? 

 

 

[kiwi1691]

Football goes in cycles, no one can be good forever.

[ShedEnder91]

Football goes in cycles, no one can be good forever.

 

Possibly, but this isn't the NBA or NFL which are built to deny a few teams dominating. With the money in the Premier League shouldn't it be of a higher quality at the top end?

[luckywerthers]

I think that maybe money is the problem, how many of the top clubs have football people pulling the strings behind the scenes? the big money has attracted all of the wrong sorts into the game if you ask me, it has become more of a business.

[coco]

We are blessed with the best league in any sport, the most entertaining, the most unpredictable, with the most worldwide supporters.

 

The quality has levelled out and now the top teams look ordinary, that was the whole idea wasn't it ?

[ShedEnder91]

We are blessed with the best league in any sport, the most entertaining, the most unpredictable, with the most worldwide supporters.

 

 

That's a perfectly fine view to take, that the 'best league' is the one that is the most unpredictable. My point was that the quality of the league at the top end has dropped.

 

 

The quality has levelled out and now the top teams look ordinary, that was the whole idea wasn't it ?

 

I think the idea was to elevate all the teams rather than to lower the quality of the teams at the top. You're espousing perfectly acceptable corinthian notions of sport but our league doesn't exist in a vacuum. We compete with other top European teams and we seem to be a level below the very best teams out there.

 

At it's best, we had four top teams all of whom could have won the league whilst also competing at the highest levels in Europe.

 

Now we have maybe six teams who could win the league but who aren't a patch on those teams.

 

That to me is a backwards step.

[coco]

The quality at the top has dropped because the opposition is stronger, it's not rocket science.

[Passed It]

In 2008, Chelsea and Man United contested the Champions League Final and were the two best teams in the world. Liverpool also reached the semis that year so 3 of the last 4 were English teams. Players like Ronaldo, Terry, Cole, Drogba, Gerrard and Torres made 'UEFA Team of the Year' lists. In the last five years only Gareth Bale has featured. This year it's quite conceivable that only one English team progresses past the Round of 16.

 

Domestically the top teams are struggling. At the same stage last year Chelsea were 7 points better off than the current leaders, and now we face going into next year with a new coach, as do United, City and Arsenal potentially. Even Liverpool have only recently changed coaches.

 

So the question is why has the quality at the top end of the table dropped? 

You have mentioned the 2008 final in many of your posts and I don't see it's relevance. Eight years is a long time in football things and clubs fortunes can change very quickly. Different era's but Man Utd European champions 1968 relegated in 1974. Chelsea European Cup Winners Cup 1971 relegated in 1975. Leeds  European Cup Finalists 1975 relegated in 1981. Spurs UFEA cup winners 1972 relegated 1976. 

[ShedEnder91]

The quality at the top has dropped because the opposition is stronger, it's not rocket science.

 

But shouldn't the increased competition have made the teams stronger, more resilient?

 

Or are you saying the increased buying power of the 'weaker' teams has meant there's more competition for players which stops talent pooling at the top?

 

I'm not a rocket surgeon so I'm a little unclear on what you're saying. Might have another crack at it after a coffee.

[Zola]

If every year in the premier league could be this unpredictable, I'd probably take it.

[ShedEnder91]

You have mentioned the 2008 final in many of your posts and I don't see it's relevance. 

 

 

Because it's when Chelsea and the Premier League were arguably at their strongest point. For me it's one of our best teams ever, if not the best (2006 runs it close).

 

 

Eight years is a long time in football things and clubs fortunes can change very quickly. Different era's but Man Utd European champions 1968 relegated in 1974. Chelsea European Cup Winners Cup 1971 relegated in 1975. Leeds  European Cup Finalists 1975 relegated in 1981. Spurs UFEA cup winners 1972 relegated 1976. 

 

Again you're right but there are reasons for those things happening and that's what I'm asking about. I think it's easy to say 'well things go in cycles' and that's true, but that's the superficial conclusion of a number of different factors. There's reasons for things falling after they rise.

 

Take Leeds in the early-2000s. They were competing in the Champions League and pushing for the league before falling (hilariously) far, but we know the reasons for this. They overspent, gambling on future success that didn't materialise. What I'm asking is why the level that the top teams in this country play at has fallen in the space of 8 years. Maybe it was unsustainable, maybe FFP actually did it's job or maybe it's managerial incompetence across the board.

 

But with the resources available to those teams, it should've really have happened. 

[ShedEnder91]

If every year in the premier league could be this unpredictable, I'd probably take it.

 

In 2013-14 you had Liverpool throwing the title away in the last few weeks.

 

In 2011-12 you had City winning on goal difference with virtually the last kick of the season.

 

In 2009-10 we won by one point, scoring 103 points.

 

In 2007-08 United won the league on the final day of the season.

 

The league's not always as predictable as some people say although no-one predicted this one. But it depends what you look for in your football. 

 

This season is defined by the ineptitude of the 'big teams' whereas in past seasons you legitimately had the best teams in the world fighting right to the end of the season. I'm not saying one is a better spectacle that the other, just asking why.

[Coxy15]

Emphasis on possession based attacking football. Nobody knows how to defend anymore. Bring back teams who know how to defend and you will see us successful in europe again. Owners throw money at managers who bring "excitement" "attaking football" "entertainment" blah blah blah... Not about quality, it's about the spectacle. We've got a hell of a spectacle now, but football purists lose out

[Ernie_blue]

The quality at the top has dropped because the opposition is stronger, it's not rocket science.

Well that's wrong. It's pretty obvious the quality of the top teams has dropped. You just need to look at the champions league the last few years. Look at the teams. Compare this Chelsea team to some of the teams in the last 10 years. Same with Arsenal and the invincibles, obviously with Utd and some of there past teams. City should walk this league this year.

[Chelsbear]

Well that's wrong. It's pretty obvious the quality of the top teams has dropped. You just need to look at the champions league the last few years. Look at the teams. Compare this Chelsea team to some of the teams in the last 10 years. Same with Arsenal and the invincibles, obviously with Utd and some of there past teams. City should walk this league this year.

Has it though?

We had Spains top goalscorer in Costa, Europes top young player in Hazard mixed in with the likes of Fabregas, Terry, Tibo and Matic.

Last season was probably the best team since Carlos first season.

City are littered with quality players like Aguero, Silva, De Bruyne, Kompany, Toure and so on. Probably the most talented squad they have ever had.

I’d say most teams are underperforming for one reason or another, the quality is still there as the EPL has the biggest share of quality players than any other league in the world.

£ is a big factor, Stoke are bringing in players from Barcelona and Bayern which 10 years ago was unthinkable. More £ for the smaller clubs makes the league more unpredictable and difficult to win. It’s by some distance the most competitive league in Europe and it’s not down to lack of talent or quality IMO.

[ShedEnder91]

I’d say most teams are underperforming for one reason or another, the quality is still there as the EPL has the biggest share of quality players than any other league in the world.

£ is a big factor, Stoke are bringing in players from Barcelona and Bayern which 10 years ago was unthinkable. More £ for the smaller clubs makes the league more unpredictable and difficult to win. It’s by some distance the most competitive league in Europe and it’s not down to lack of talent or quality IMO.

 

You make some interesting points but this thing about us having the biggest share of quality players....do we? Do we have the top quality players? We don't seem to be amongst the Team of the Year like we used to.

 

In fact the only player who has made it in recently is Gareth Bale. He now plays in Spain. Who followed him as player of the year? Suarez. He also plays in Spain.

 

And this isn't new. Two players have dominated the Ballon d'Or. Both play in Spain. Ronaldo did play in England but left just as this downturn happened. Who won it next? Eden Hazard and there seems to be a sense that if Real Madrid come knocking we won't be able to turn them down.

 

Yes Stoke bring in these players, but they're cast-offs if we're being honest. The same goes for the top clubs. We sign Fabregas who was surplus to requirements, United by Di Maria who wasn't needed by Madrid and yet we also say that we couldn't sign someone like Varane.

 

So I agree it's the most competitive of the top leagues but that's not because the weaker teams got better. 

 

The strong teams got worse.

[chickenfluff]

Fergie left, wenger lacks ambition, mourinho came back out of his prime.

 

Smaller teams have more money. The top 4 clubs don't stock pile world class players anymore like we did in the early abramovic days and like what city did in the early days.

A lot of players get paid nearly as much money to go and play for a mid table club and play regularly. 

 

This is more appealing than going to a top 4 team and risking ending up in the wilderness.

[SydneyChelsea]

The top teams have had poor managers, mediocre teams have had good ones. It's a cycle.

With Conte, Klopp, Guardiola and probably Mourinho in the league next season I'd expect the entire balance of power to switch back the EPL very soon.

[Chelsbear]

You make some interesting points but this thing about us having the biggest share of quality players....do we? Do we have the top quality players? We don't seem to be amongst the Team of the Year like we used to.

In fact the only player who has made it in recently is Gareth Bale. He now plays in Spain. Who followed him as player of the year? Suarez. He also plays in Spain.

And this isn't new. Two players have dominated the Ballon d'Or. Both play in Spain. Ronaldo did play in England but left just as this downturn happened. Who won it next? Eden Hazard and there seems to be a sense that if Real Madrid come knocking we won't be able to turn them down.

Yes Stoke bring in these players, but they're cast-offs if we're being honest. The same goes for the top clubs. We sign Fabregas who was surplus to requirements, United by Di Maria who wasn't needed by Madrid and yet we also say that we couldn't sign someone like Varane.

So I agree it's the most competitive of the top leagues but that's not because the weaker teams got better.

The strong teams got worse.

I think Barcelona and Madrid are always the exception and always have been. They continually have the best players in world football in their sides that’s just the way it goes. La liga outside Madrid, Barca and now Atletico is pretty average.

Quality wise I still have the EPL as the best overall in Europe.

[Ernie_blue]

Has it though?

We had Spains top goalscorer in Costa, Europes top young player in Hazard mixed in with the likes of Fabregas, Terry, Tibo and Matic.

Last season was probably the best team since Carlos first season.

City are littered with quality players like Aguero, Silva, De Bruyne, Kompany, Toure and so on. Probably the most talented squad they have ever had.

I’d say most teams are underperforming for one reason or another, the quality is still there as the EPL has the biggest share of quality players than any other league in the world.

£ is a big factor, Stoke are bringing in players from Barcelona and Bayern which 10 years ago was unthinkable. More £ for the smaller clubs makes the league more unpredictable and difficult to win. It’s by some distance the most competitive league in Europe and it’s not down to lack of talent or quality IMO.

Having quality players isn't good enough alone. This Chelsea team is nothing on first Mourinhos teams. That team was a machine. Lampard, Cech, Carvalho, Terry, Maka, Essien joining. Drogba. It won the league on record points not because everyone else was poor, because that team was of a high quality with a high quality manager.

Like I said City should of run away with this league. They have quality players but they have had a lot of injuries, I don't rate Pellegrini as a manager who keeps playing Toure in a 2 man midfield. There defensive signings have been a joke. If they just signed Williams or Reid from West Ham they would of been a lot better signings.

Put the top 3 teams in England against the top 3 in Spain and Spain will nearly always win.

[Ernie_blue]

I think Barcelona and Madrid are always the exception and always have been. They continually have the best players in world football in their sides that’s just the way it goes. La liga outside Madrid, Barca and now Atletico is pretty average.

Quality wise I still have the EPL as the best overall in Europe.

But then there hasn't been many winners of the Europa League from England lately.

[Chelsbear]

Put the top 3 teams in England against the top 3 in Spain and Spain will nearly always win.

That's because Barca and Madrid are super clubs who have always boasted the worlds best players, that's hardly a new thing.....

You could say that near enough every season year after year.

[Chelsbear]

But then there hasn't been many winners of the Europa League from England lately.

Because the sides don't tend to take it seriously like say we or Spurs did.

It's common knowledge they field weekend sides to focus on the league.

[Ernie_blue]

The top teams have had poor managers, mediocre teams have had good ones. It's a cycle.

With Conte, Klopp, Guardiola and probably Mourinho in the league next season I'd expect the entire balance of power to switch back the EPL very soon.

I agree, If Mourinho goes to Utd and will have loads of money to spend. Guardiola and the same at City. Klopp building his own squad at Liverpool in the summer. Conte will have money to spend at Chelsea. I can't see Spurs and Leicester being in the title race again and we all know Arsenal don't look any higher than 4th ;)

[Ernie_blue]

That's because Barca and Madrid are super clubs who have always boasted the worlds best players, that's hardly a new thing.....

You could say that near enough every season year after year.

Didn't happen in 2008