Just like many other threads. Terrible knee jerking when a scapegoat is  needed. However when things go well, they don't say a word on this "remove the board" campaign.

 

Not when in you didnt need hindsight in the first place to realise the amount of rubbish coming out from a few bitter individuals.

 

Righto – let’s just consider your posts shall we?

First, and prior to commenting on the posts, some background that I feel is neutrally made:

(i)            Brit opened the thread on 26 August 2016 – less than a week before the summer window closed;

(ii)           On the one hand, and in isolation only, it could be said that Brit was a bit guilty of hyperbole & possibly projection in terms of the thread title & in respect to some of his comments –          ‘complete balls-up..’ etc. before the window had closed;

(iii)          On the other hand, I believe most of us are in agreement with Brit that the summer window of 15/16 was completely underwhelming & a huge disappointment & that our defensive            stocks (with less than a week to go) were concerning to us all;

(iv)          Moreover, none of us were to know at the time that the thread was created (or indeed until 1 October 2016 after mortifying defeats to pool & l’arse) that our incoming manager was at               some future stage going to completely revolutionise our playing system in terms of playing the 3-4-3/3-5-2;

(v)           Both Alonso & Luiz were signed on the last day of the transfer window & the signing of the latter was a complete surprise to most.

(vi)          The thread was created after our complete fall from grace & the top 4 in 15/16 & in circumstances where there was an incoming manager new to the EPL.

Now it is not in issue that so far this season the incoming Manager & the team have exceeded all expectations. Given our low stocks at the end of last season and, since October, it has been a remarkable transition & exciting for everyone.

Now – as to your posts:

First & given the above, you’re somewhat guilty of hyperbole/over-reaction as well are you not?

I refer to ‘terrible knee-jerking’ & ‘remove the board campaign’ & ‘bitter individuals’ et al.

I mean which poster in the thread ever expressly stated that the board ‘should be removed’?

And your comments are made some 5 months after the thread was created & after Conte & the players have completely turned our fortunes around.

It seems to me that your comments could only have currency if you had predicted at one & the same time – ie. at the closure of the summer window – that we would be in the position we now find ourselves in – ie. top of the table. But I don’t recall having read a post of yours of that ilk & made at that time. Perhaps I’m wrong – perhaps you did predict that – in which case I apologize in advance but I’d still like you to reproduce that post (if it exists) herein.

Secondly, and more seriously, and given all of the above, you state that ‘you didn’t need hindsight’. I have to say that that comment is ridiculous. It’s the sort of comment that Donald Trump would make & in fact does all the time. You would do well to read up on ‘hindsight bias’. The simple fact is that hindsight bias affects all of us & each one of us has to factor that in when making statements as far as our recollections are concerned. Brit started this thread with good intentions & his concerns were felt by many of us at the time. What is the point of having a go at him & others, as you do, now? Does it make you feel somehow superior?

 

39 minutes ago, youlots said:

The simple fact is that hindsight bias affects all of us & each one of us has to factor that in when making statements as far as our recollections are concerned.

It might just be me but I knew this all along.

42 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

It might just be me but I knew this all along.

Ha ha....Nice.

6 hours ago, bola said:

not really, when you realize of our quality, a major overhaul is never needed.. some people just can't accept that jose has lost the plot so they needed something to blame for his failure..

 

4 hours ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Just like many other threads. Terrible knee jerking when a scapegoat is  needed. However when things go well, they don't say a word on this "remove the board" campaign 

 

Given that we didn't start playing well this season until Conte changed formation and was did not have the players he needed play said said formation at the time this thread was started I think the concern was more than warranted. 

Bola, you say a major overhaul was not needed. But we've completely changed the system we play. There are four players who are now first choice who were not at the club last season. Terry, Ivanovic, Oscar, Mikel have either left or been dropped. I mean if that's not a major overhaul, what is?

KonaKai, I've seen a few comments regarding scapegoating but I don't think any specific person(s) were targeted?  The original point of the thread was that the way we conducted our transfers for the second summer running in us leaving it late to make key signings was leaving us at a disadvantage. Given we laboured to wins against Watford and West Ham and won none of our September league matches maybe there is definitely an argument to be had to say that had we concluded more of our key transfers sooner Conte would have been better equipped going into the season?

Finally my post regarding sneering in hindsight. I think my point has been missed by some, it was a comment that some people sit on the fence, don't commit to an opinion and then when all is going well (or badly) they jump in and mock those who were arguing their views in a time of uncertainty. 

3 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

 

 

Given that we didn't start playing well this season until Conte changed formation and was did not have the players he needed play said said formation at the time this thread was started I think the concern was more than warranted. 

Bola, you say a major overhaul was not needed. But we've completely changed the system we play. There are four players who are now first choice who were not at the club last season. Terry, Ivanovic, Oscar, Mikel have either left or been dropped. I mean if that's not a major overhaul, what is?

KonaKai, I've seen a few comments regarding scapegoating but I don't think any specific person(s) were targeted?  The original point of the thread was that the way we conducted our transfers for the second summer running in us leaving it late to make key signings was leaving us at a disadvantage. Given we laboured to wins against Watford and West Ham and won none of our September league matches maybe there is definitely an argument to be had to say that had we concluded more of our key transfers sooner Conte would have been better equipped going into the season?

Finally my post regarding sneering in hindsight. I think my point has been missed by some, it was a comment that some people sit on the fence, don't commit to an opinion and then when all is going well (or badly) they jump in and mock those who were arguing their views in a time of uncertainty. 

There is a big difference between concern and outright over the top hysterica too early. This thread was created before a ball was kicked noff? Instantly dismissing the signing of Luiz and the introduction of Moses before we even registered back to back defeats. 

Emanalo is clearly the one  being targetee the moment the club has a bad run. The opinion of him has been very toxic more so among the Jose fan boys who couldn't accept that all he could do was throw money to help fix problems he created.

As many have said plenty of times. This is not a video game. We made good investments this summer, other targets were either not value for the price quoted or just not available. All this we left it to late rubbish was again pitiful moaning, as no one actually knows what goes on behind the scenes. I said back in August that the additions of Luiz, Kante, Moses and Batman to the squad were very good considering the circumstances and that is proving to be exactly the case.

Regarding uncertainty I think it's a lesson to next time have a bit more faith in the club (they did hire Conte after all) and give it time before criticising how the club is run. 

3 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

 

 

Given that we didn't start playing well this season until Conte changed formation and was did not have the players he needed play said said formation at the time this thread was started I think the concern was more than warranted. 

Bola, you say a major overhaul was not needed. But we've completely changed the system we play. There are four players who are now first choice who were not at the club last season. Terry, Ivanovic, Oscar, Mikel have either left or been dropped. I mean if that's not a major overhaul, what is?

KonaKai, I've seen a few comments regarding scapegoating but I don't think any specific person(s) were targeted?  The original point of the thread was that the way we conducted our transfers for the second summer running in us leaving it late to make key signings was leaving us at a disadvantage. Given we laboured to wins against Watford and West Ham and won none of our September league matches maybe there is definitely an argument to be had to say that had we concluded more of our key transfers sooner Conte would have been better equipped going into the season?

Finally my post regarding sneering in hindsight. I think my point has been missed by some, it was a comment that some people sit on the fence, don't commit to an opinion and then when all is going well (or badly) they jump in and mock those who were arguing their views in a time of uncertainty. 

 

3 new players in the starting XI and only 1 of those 3 that is a clear improvement to our first team who we didn't have before and the deal was done pretty early in the window..  Alonso and luiz were late arrivals but the former's ability still leave a lot to be desired while the latter replacing JT the captain which surprisingly has been doing a great job with some consistency..   Dropping ivanovic should have long been done, he was the problem and him along with oscar & mikel are all bench players..

 

What I mean by major overhaul is changing the players that we have with new players that we never have and certainly moses doesn't fall into that category.. Bench players are rather irrelevant when they're almost never used so all in all, it's just 3 new players and that's hardly considered as a major overhaul, isn't it?  if you look back at this thread, it's almost sound like people demanded replacing at least  more than half of the team..

 

Btw, what are we arguing? didn't you blame the board for not making major overhaul in the summer to improve our so called lost quality as if last season performance is some legit barometer but now you're saying we did have major overhaul?

 

 

 

1 hour ago, bola said:

Btw, what are we arguing? didn't you blame the board for not making major overhaul in the summer to improve our so called lost quality as if last season performance is some legit barometer but now you're saying we did have major overhaul?

No my complaint is how late we have left it in transfer windows for the last two seasons to conduct transfers, the reasons against this I've outlined in earlier posts.

Personally I think Moses should be included as an overhaul player. He's been on loan for three years and now converted to a new position. 

4 hours ago, KonaKai Blue said:

There is a big difference between concern and outright over the top hysterica too early. This thread was created before a ball was kicked noff? Instantly dismissing the signing of Luiz and the introduction of Moses before we even registered back to back defeats. 

Emanalo is clearly the one  being targetee the moment the club has a bad run. The opinion of him has been very toxic more so among the Jose fan boys who couldn't accept that all he could do was throw money to help fix problems he created.

As many have said plenty of times. This is not a video game. We made good investments this summer, other targets were either not value for the price quoted or just not available. All this we left it to late rubbish was again pitiful moaning, as no one actually knows what goes on behind the scenes. I said back in August that the additions of Luiz, Kante, Moses and Batman to the squad were very good considering the circumstances and that is proving to be exactly the case.

Regarding uncertainty I think it's a lesson to next time have a bit more faith in the club (they did hire Conte after all) and give it time before criticising how the club is run. 

Whatever thread you can't resist a dig at Jose. Take a bloody break from it.

47 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Whatever thread you can't resist a dig at Jose. Take a bloody break from it.

Although he shouldnt have gone down the fanboy route the basis of what he is saying is spot on, last season was a mess of Jose's making and he had no idea how to rectify it.

12 minutes ago, Argo said:

Although he shouldnt have gone down the fanboy route the basis of what he is saying is spot on, last season was a mess of Jose's making and he had no idea how to rectify it.

What's that to do with the summer transfer window?

10 hours ago, Ernie_blue said:

What's that to do with the summer transfer window?

It has everything to do with your perception of the summer transfer window. You think it is not Jose's fault and the squad is poor therefore blame the board. The others thought that Jose screwed up, the squad is decent and all we need are a few additions therefore do not blame the board.

However, I also agree that some may have had justifiable cause for concern before the season started independent of their views on Jose. Blaming the board though is too large a step into the unknown and I have never seen any evidence that they have conspicuously failed us. Blaming he board (and Emanolo) with limited knowledge makes me think that the 'blamer' is in a bubble completely isolated from the realities of the world.

 

28 minutes ago, ashwin said:

It has everything to do with your perception of the summer transfer window. You think it is not Jose's fault and the squad is poor therefore blame the board. The others thought that Jose screwed up, the squad is decent and all we need are a few additions therefore do not blame the board.

However, I also agree that some may have had justifiable cause for concern before the season started independent of their views on Jose. Blaming the board though is too large a step into the unknown and I have never seen any evidence that they have conspicuously failed us. Blaming he board (and Emanolo) with limited knowledge makes me think that the 'blamer' is in a bubble completely isolated from the realities of the world.

 

The last paragraph is absolutely spot on. Jose aside, the whole outburst against the board is completely farcical. Any rival fan will find such an outburst pathetic and spoilt considering that we have one of the highest wage bills in the league and dip into our pockets every year. 

I've said this in the Emanalo Out thread, can anyone look at the any board from the other top 6 clubs with envy and think "I wish Chelsea were run like this"?.  Do not confuse penny pinching which happens at the likes of Spurs and Arsenal with sensible and clever business sense as we have at our club. 

What really annoys me is when posters moaned saying "the board have left it too late and didn't back the manager. Meanwhile they could never intelligently explain reasons why we should spend well over the odds on unproven CBs for example, we were linked with or who else was available that we missed out on. Stones for 50m?Said it last year and saying it now....NO THANKS.

The board are not perfect but they certainly don't need a thread bashing them or him should I say. 

Edited January 30, 20179 yr by KonaKai Blue

2 hours ago, ashwin said:

It has everything to do with your perception of the summer transfer window. You think it is not Jose's fault and the squad is poor therefore blame the board. The others thought that Jose screwed up, the squad is decent and all we need are a few additions therefore do not blame the board.

However, I also agree that some may have had justifiable cause for concern before the season started independent of their views on Jose. Blaming the board though is too large a step into the unknown and I have never seen any evidence that they have conspicuously failed us. Blaming he board (and Emanolo) with limited knowledge makes me think that the 'blamer' is in a bubble completely isolated from the realities of the world.

 

I'm confused, I'm not even defending Mourinho I am just stating he wasn't even at the club at all in the year 2016 so what does the summer of 2016 have anything to do with Mourinho. To me it just seems another reason for the same old to slag him off.

I thought the argument was about the board leaving transfers to the last minute which was true but it seems to happen the majority of transfer windows for some reason.

42 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

I'm confused, I'm not even defending Mourinho I am just stating he wasn't even at the club at all in the year 2016 so what does the summer of 2016 have anything to do with Mourinho. To me it just seems another reason for the same old to slag him off.

I thought the argument was about the board leaving transfers to the last minute which was true but it seems to happen the majority of transfer windows for some reason.

The argument (let it be noted it is not my argument) is that our squad wasnt as bad as our table position last year would indicate, hence there was no need for a massive spending spree to get back into contention. So the notion that we had a poor window because we didnt strengthen enough is a faulty one as the signings we made were more then good enough to seriously challenge. Make sense?

15 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

I'm confused, I'm not even defending Mourinho I am just stating he wasn't even at the club at all in the year 2016 so what does the summer of 2016 have anything to do with Mourinho. To me it just seems another reason for the same old to slag him off.

I thought the argument was about the board leaving transfers to the last minute which was true but it seems to happen the majority of transfer windows for some reason.

 

This isn't another reason to slag Jose off. What you must realise is that the bashing of our board and Emanalo in particular were inspired by Jose's problems at the club.

Those same fans who were praising our net spend, transfer dealings and overall club structure whilst we romped the 2015 title are the same fans looking to scrapegoat and bash Emanalo because Jose wasn't "backed" and almost forced into meltdown. Why we have an Emanalo Out thread I will never know. The man in power making the ultimate decision is Roman. I'm pretty sure a he's smart enough to see the qualities his board bring to this club, but obviously no one will be stupid enough to criticise him, so the easier option is to lay all accountability on his right hand man.

I find it beyond pathetic as from last August 2015, I could clearly see the bigger problem than a subdued transfer window. That problem was a manager who already was well equipped with enough resources to dimish any excuses of our subsequent downfall, causing unnecessary friction. It was so bizarre that I still feel it was somewhat planned.

As for the board leaving transfers to the last minute. Again, although it's a frustration and yes fans are right to moan, there is no need to take it as far as endorsing some campaign to have Emanalo removed (as if hiring a new person in his role will actually change things). Signings are left late because quite frankly, that is the climate of transfer season. We don't know the ins and out but you just have to look at the lack of activity in this January transfer window to understand.

 

18 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

No my complaint is how late we have left it in transfer windows for the last two seasons to conduct transfers, the reasons against this I've outlined in earlier posts.

Personally I think Moses should be included as an overhaul player. He's been on loan for three years and now converted to a new position. 

 

Last season you blamed the board for not having alternative to john stone and this season when we did have alternative (luiz) to the so called bonucci, koullaby or whoever else we're linked with, you still complain about it.. You know something, negotiation process does not always happen as fast as you would like to think, it just doesn't work that way..

As a club aiming for operating independently from a sugar daddy under financial fair play rule, the financial aspect in the buying/selling players has to make sense for the benefit of the club.. Spending way over the odds for some unproven players is far from achieving that solvent ideal..

The way you portray yourself during this window saga, you give me the feeling that you're acting like a spoilt kid who asks his parent to go all out and fast to get that 1 toy you desire... (to be honest, I did that but that was when I was 5 years old, no shame about it, it's kid's moment)

12 minutes ago, bola said:

Last season you blamed the board for not having alternative to john stone and this season when we did have alternative (luiz) to the so called bonucci, koullaby or whoever else we're linked with, you still complain about it.. 

No, my complaint about John Stones was that we pursued him for the majority of the summer window and then left it too late to sign a decent alternative. Which is why we ended up with Papy who did nothing more than make up the numbers. 

 

15 minutes ago, bola said:

You know something, negotiation process does not always happen as fast as you would like to think, it just doesn't work that way..

No doubt but we've shown in the recent past that we're more than capable of making key signings long before the final day of a transfer window. I feel that the team better benefits from having business concluded as early as possible and it's an area where I would like the club to improve moving forward. Not too sure why this is is something to disagree with. 

2 hours ago, Xfaxtor said:

The argument (let it be noted it is not my argument) is that our squad wasnt as bad as our table position last year would indicate, hence there was no need for a massive spending spree to get back into contention. So the notion that we had a poor window because we didnt strengthen enough is a faulty one as the signings we made were more then good enough to seriously challenge. Make sense?

It's quite obvious the squad is better than the position Chelsea finished last year. Chelsea still spent over 100m and brought in 3 first team players and Batman. So the squad was strengthened quite a lot.

 

1 hour ago, ForeverCarefree said:

No, my complaint about John Stones was that we pursued him for the majority of the summer window and then left it too late to sign a decent alternative. Which is why we ended up with Papy who did nothing more than make up the numbers. 

 

No doubt but we've shown in the recent past that we're more than capable of making key signings long before the final day of a transfer window. I feel that the team better benefits from having business concluded as early as possible and it's an area where I would like the club to improve moving forward. Not too sure why this is is something to disagree with. 

 

You still think signing a player is as easy as walking into the supermarket, grab the stuff, pay in the cashier and it's done..  You underestimate the fact that the seller club playing hard ball forcing us to pay over the odd which clearly we were not prepared to..

 

When it comes to signing, if the price is far from ideal for either party, be that the seller or the buyer, it's going to enter negotiation phase which obviously take time and could still fall through if nothing reached...   You do realize that we're asked to pay over than 50mils for the target mentioned, don't you?  Sure, we've concluded early business but how much again was the fee? all below 40mils.. remember 50mils torres? he came on the last day of the window.. 

 

If the fee for the top target is below 40mils or 40mils top, I believe the club would get it done early but over than 50mils? You just need to understand the board for being sensible.. btw, we ended up not paying over the odd and look where we are, isn't the board's decision vindicated now??  

 

13 minutes ago, bola said:

You still think signing a player is as easy as walking into the supermarket, grab the stuff, pay in the cashier and it's done.

No I don't. 

14 minutes ago, bola said:

You underestimate the fact that the seller club playing hard ball forcing us to pay over the odd which clearly we were not prepared to..

Well that's true of pretty much transfer ever. Doesn't mean that we should content ourselves with concluding our key business after the season has already started hindering the managers plans. 

16 minutes ago, bola said:

You do realize that we're asked to pay over than 50mils for the target mentioned, don't you?  Sure, we've concluded early business but how much again was the fee?

Well Stones was sold to City for £49m. Our opening bid was £22m There's haggling and then there's taking the piss. If we had no intentions of ever meeting Everton's valuation (which they got eventually let's not forget) then we should have walked away from negotiations much earlier. I don't want to go into one specific transfer too much but Stones was clearly poorly managed by us. 

21 minutes ago, bola said:

we ended up not paying over the odd and look where we are, isn't the board's decision vindicated now??  

Depends on how you view the lack of signings impacting last season I suppose. 

 

6 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

No, my complaint about John Stones was that we pursued him for the majority of the summer window and then left it too late to sign a decent alternative. Which is why we ended up with Papy who did nothing more than make up the numbers. 

Maybe just maybe Papy was the only decent alternative available. Maybe Stones took so much headlines that all our other alternatives went under the radar of the media.

Procurement is a tough job, I know it's what I do every day. Just because one deal is sewn up quickly, it doesn't mean the rest will, so don't expect quick transfer business every window.

Edited January 30, 20179 yr by KonaKai Blue

4 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Well Stones was sold to City for £49m. Our opening bid was £22m There's haggling and then there's taking the piss. If we had no intentions of ever meeting Everton's valuation (which they got eventually let's not forget) then we should have walked away from negotiations much earlier. I don't want to go into one specific transfer too much but Stones was clearly poorly managed by us.

22m was not taking the piss. Taking the piss would be meeting their valuation and seeing our defence still get ripped apart.

As I said I work in  procurement. Ok it's not signing players but the principles are the same. You never pay the buyers asking price for a commodity which is clearly over the odds. In our favour we were chasing a player who handed in a transfer request. I'm sure in the end we went to 40m was it? And they still rejected. City were fools enough to pay 50m the following season. 

I think we actually managed the saga well. We tried and tried to get the top defensive target and failed to reach an agreement, rather than making no attempt to feel Everton out and negotiate a deal.