52 minutes ago, Valerie said:

Toldya

Your hours poring over the Moldovan league over a pint and a Marlboro had to pay off.

Tuchel believes its the DNA of English players and they should share the blame.

from sky news..

It wasn't his formation that was wrong in Atlanta, the problem instead is a weakness in the English football DNA which means the players struggle to keep possession when under pressure.

"In this moment my feeling was no structure in the world could have helped us," Tuchel says, "because actually we were too passive and we were not physical enough, we didn't stop runners arriving in our box and the deliveries were wrong too.

"I haven't seen the data yet, but I think just right after the goal the momentum swings completely and ball possession drops dramatically. 

"We couldn't find any duels anymore, that's why we dropped deeper and deeper, it was never the plan, but it happened.

"(We) couldn't stop the runners from second line, the midfielders, through our gaps, and the deliveries were on the highest level. You need to get back on the ball, otherwise you cannot break the pressure and you cannot get the momentum back.

"I think ball possession plays then a crucial role, it's maybe not in our DNA like it is in our Spanish DNA or in our Argentinian-Brazilian DNA, to take the ball and control the game with the ball."

Edited 3 hours ago3 hr by OTL

24 minutes ago, GarnachoCheese said:

The players have all come out and said they wanted to keep playing, Tuchel got them to drop and sit deep. He’s done it with teams his entire career.

Tuchel made a point of ciriticising Southgate when he got the job, saying how he knows what were missing and how to get us playing to win. He then did everything Southgate used to do multiplied by 10, I would love to see Southgate come out and just say "Hey Tuchel, f**k you"....

5 minutes ago, dkw said:

Tuchel made a point of ciriticising Southgate when he got the job, saying how he knows what were missing and how to get us playing to win. He then did everything Southgate used to do multiplied by 10, I would love to see Southgate come out and just say "Hey Tuchel, f**k you"....

100%. Tuchel was brought in to get us over the line. If we were happy with cowardice and a Semi final we should have just kept Southgate. What Tuchel did with the reputation that follows him is unforgiveable. For me there's no way back from this, he needs to walk or be sacked.

8 minutes ago, OTL said:

Tuchel believes its the DNA of English players and they should share the blame.

It wasn't his formation that was wrong in Atlanta, the problem instead is a weakness in the English football DNA which means the players struggle to keep possession when under pressure.

"In this moment my feeling was no structure in the world could have helped us," Tuchel says, "because actually we were too passive and we were not physical enough, we didn't stop runners arriving in our box and the deliveries were wrong too.

"I haven't seen the data yet, but I think just right after the goal the momentum swings completely and ball possession drops dramatically. 

"We couldn't find any duels anymore, that's why we dropped deeper and deeper, it was never the plan, but it happened.

"(We) couldn't stop the runners from second line, the midfielders, through our gaps, and the deliveries were on the highest level. You need to get back on the ball, otherwise you cannot break the pressure and you cannot get the momentum back.

"I think ball possession plays then a crucial role, it's maybe not in our DNA like it is in our Spanish DNA or in our Argentinian-Brazilian DNA, to take the ball and control the game with the ball."

Absolute bo**ocks, these players seem to manage it when playing for some of the best teams in Europe, all the team on the weekend play for teams that get to the final few in the CL, theres nothing wrong with their mentality.

What we saw was Tuchel do what he has done with his teams for years, score and shut up shop, get deeper and more compact, pull wide attackers back and in. It worked against Mexico and Norway, just, the difference is Argentina are better and if you just concede all the pitch and ball to a team like them then they will score.

Tuchel said he was brought in to "fix" all that, and yet didnt, he was as bad if not worse than all our other coaches. Not even surprised hes blaming players again, its his go to when things fail.

This is a brilliant video explaining how it went right, then the changes he made that went so badly wrong. Argentina had all the momentum, so Tuchel does nothing to change that, in fact he just completely plays into it and concedes everything taking Gordon of for Konsa. Awful management.

Our track record in both the World Cup and the Euros is not winning the competitions, regardless of who the manager is. The players could be part of the reason. Tuchels tactics were poor v Argentina late on given the outcome, but we have hardly been in sparkling form throughout the competition, and indeed in other competitions. Clearly there's something missing. The players are probably as a group not top level. And our expectation is probably too high - mine certainly increases as a competition progresses, right up until reality cuts in.

We had the World Champions in trouble at 1-0 and should have crushed any hope they had of a comeback, a top level team would have done that. Not one player, well maybe Pickford, stood firm in the closing stages they were all overwhelmed.

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by OTL

On 16/07/2026 at 07:15, dermott said:

And @SydneyChelsea who was adamant England couldn’t lose against Spain.

I own it. I didn't count on England to be so miserably bad against Argentina they wouldn't get to meet them in the first place.

Arguably the first time since 1986 that England came in as favourites and again England underestimated an irrepressible genius. Only Messi makes a perfectly flat square cutback just begging to be hit, followed up by a perfectly aimed cross that somehow evades 3 6ft+ English defenders to land on the forehead of the second smallest guy on the pitch. Maybe Olise or Yamal pull that off on a good day too.

Tuchel built a team for the counter-press and the counter-attack and then decided to do neither. Two underwhelming teams but whereas Argentina rose to the level of its opponent, England descended to theirs.

Tuchel deserves most of the blame, of course. Less for leaving out Palmer/Foden and far more for leaving out Adam Wharton who would have been a great complement or substitute to Rice or Anderson. His comments about 'DNA' are unfounded, given that he had three of the most recent PL winners, three CL winners (one of whom could legitimately be called his protege), a Treble winner, the current European Golden Shoe holder, and the form player of the tournament in Jude Bellingham.

It was Tuchel's decision to play more defensively in the second half. The one thing in the world that Messi cannot do at age 39 is run, and yet, they never once required him to do it. They spent ~75 minutes denying him space only to give him the freedom of Atlanta from there on in. Firstly the wind went out of England's sails when Anderson, who pocketed both Paredes and Fernandez with ease, got a yellow card. Then it was Tuchel who ceded momentum the moment Gordon was taken off for Ezri Konsa when he could have easily switched in Rashford or Madueke or even Ollie Watkins to keep the pressure on.

If Pickford hadnt made two very good saves late on and the woodwork hadnt saved us a couple of times the scoreline could have looked grotesque. As it was a possession stat of 12% late on is the sort of figure you might see when Chelsea play in the early rounds of the FA or league Cup was ugly enough.

We can blame the manager and the next one but it's not gonna get us any closer to actually winning a competition.

4 minutes ago, SydneyChelsea said:

I own it. I didn't count on England to be so miserably bad against Argentina they wouldn't get to meet them in the first place.

Arguably the first time since 1986 that England came in as favourites and again England underestimated an irrepressible genius. Only Messi makes a perfectly flat square cutback just begging to be hit, followed up by a perfectly aimed cross that somehow evades 3 6ft+ English defenders to land on the forehead of the second smallest guy on the pitch. Maybe Olise or Yamal pull that off on a good day too.

Tuchel built a team for the counter-press and the counter-attack and then decided to do neither. Two underwhelming teams but whereas Argentina rose to the level of its opponent, England descended to theirs.

Tuchel deserves most of the blame, of course. Less for leaving out Palmer/Foden and far more for leaving out Adam Wharton who would have been a great complement or substitute to Rice or Anderson. His comments about 'DNA' are unfounded, given that he had three of the most recent PL winners, three CL winners (one of whom could legitimately be called his protege), a Treble winner, the current European Golden Shoe holder, and the form player of the tournament in Jude Bellingham.

It was Tuchel's decision to play more defensively in the second half. The one thing in the world that Messi cannot do at age 39 is run, and yet, they never once required him to do it. They spent ~75 minutes denying him space only to give him the freedom of Atlanta from there on in. Firstly the wind went out of England's sails when Anderson, who pocketed both Paredes and Fernandez with ease, got a yellow card. Then it was Tuchel who ceded momentum the moment Gordon was taken off for Ezri Konsa when he could have easily switched in Rashford or Madueke or even Ollie Watkins to keep the pressure on.

I would only disagree on England being favourites. Their issues ran deep as you say. They constantly struggled to put away weaker teams; probably Croatia, a team of pensioners, their only true success. I always felt the SF would be the end of the road. That's where the top quality teams await.

43 minutes ago, OTL said:

Our track record in both the World Cup and the Euros is not winning the competitions, regardless of who the manager is. The players could be part of the reason. Tuchels tactics were poor v Argentina late on given the outcome, but we have hardly been in sparkling form throughout the competition, and indeed in other competitions. Clearly there's something missing. The players are probably as a group not top level. And our expectation is probably too high - mine certainly increases as a competition progresses, right up until reality cuts in.

We had the World Champions in trouble at 1-0 and should have crushed any hope they had of a comeback, a top level team would have done that. Not one player, well maybe Pickford, stood firm in the closing stages they were all overwhelmed.

So no fault of Tuchel then, who said he knew the problem, knew how to fix it unlike other coaches?

1 hour ago, GarnachoCheese said:

The players have all come out and said they wanted to keep playing, Tuchel got them to drop and sit deep. He’s done it with teams his entire career.

Where did you see that?

Interview I saw from Guehi seems to suggest that the players retreated straight after scoring and was a mental thing, long before Tuchel even made any changes.

5 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Both time messi created the goals, he had two players on him.

Well not the second one, no. Spence had a slight injury so couldn't get out to him and I think it was Rodgers who didn't even attempt to press as he was tired.

Just now, Remodez said:

Well not the second one, no. Spence had a slight injury so couldn't get out to him and I think it was Rodgers who didn't even attempt to press as he was tired.

Anderson also at fault for trying to dive in instead of marshalling.

Cave Verde had a better crack at Argentina than we did. The Argentinians looked bewildered at certain points in that game, almost in disbelief that the Verdians (?) would'nt lie down. Not like our brave souls withering & dithering. Even Egypt tried to give themselves a head start before the inevitable response from the World Champions.

Our performance was poor. The players must be thanking their lucky stars that Tuchel is taking all the blame. Laughing their cocks off no less.

I think Tuchel is defintely taking far more of the blame than he should be. Literally the second we scored, the players all dropped back and stopped doing anything but defend. I can't imagine this was the plan. Tuchel has said it wasn't the plan, that they should have been going for the 2nd, but whether due to mentality, or fitness, they just couldn't do anything but defend. So he tried see it out. But, that being said, the subs were not great, we could have tried to force the issue by bringing on more attackers or more pace to stretch them, we also sacrificed the middle of the pitch.

In hindisight you can look at some of the players left at home and wonder if they could have helped.

I think the blame is pretty 50-50 between the manager and the players, they all got it wrong, for various reasons. Let's not pretend that it's 100% Tuchel and the players are blameless. The simple fact is they weren't good enough on the pitch and were out played, out run and out fought for the majority of the game.

Don't think I'll bother with the 3rd/4th play off for two reasons

1 The real France will turn up and make us look like a pub team

2 Tuchel and the players will get it spot on and play the best game ever which will make us all miserable about the way we fu**ed up when it mattered

Either way it's a lose-lose

Anyway no one cares about the bronze medal

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by BewareoftheDrog

1 hour ago, Remodez said:

Where did you see that?

Interview I saw from Guehi seems to suggest that the players retreated straight after scoring and was a mental thing, long before Tuchel even made any changes.

You’re right, Tuchel’s substitutions really confirmed that he wanted his players to keep pushing and play on the front foot.

15 minutes ago, GarnachoCheese said:

You’re right, Tuchel’s substitutions really confirmed that he wanted his players to keep pushing and play on the front foot.

Tuchel reacted to what was already happening with his subs. He basically said "Alright, if you are going to sit back and defend against my wishes then let's get on some extra defenders to help"

You can argue he should have tried and forced a response from the team with more attacking subs but ultimately everyone in midfield was dead on their feet and Kane was like playing with 10 men. You would have to replace pretty much everyone to stand a chance at changing the defend first mentality.

Edited 34 minutes ago34 min by Remodez

1 hour ago, Zeta said:

I think Tuchel is defintely taking far more of the blame than he should be. Literally the second we scored, the players all dropped back and stopped doing anything but defend. I can't imagine this was the plan. Tuchel has said it wasn't the plan, that they should have been going for the 2nd, but whether due to mentality, or fitness, they just couldn't do anything but defend. So he tried see it out. But, that being said, the subs were not great, we could have tried to force the issue by bringing on more attackers or more pace to stretch them, we also sacrificed the middle of the pitch.

In hindisight you can look at some of the players left at home and wonder if they could have helped.

I think the blame is pretty 50-50 between the manager and the players, they all got it wrong, for various reasons. Let's not pretend that it's 100% Tuchel and the players are blameless. The simple fact is they weren't good enough on the pitch and were out played, out run and out fought for the majority of the game.

I think the only mistake he made was keeping Kane on. He could have done the same exact subs but with Watkins on to replace Kane and we would have looked much better with an outlet.