dustbin719

Seeing Zola in that old school Coors top really brings back memories. My first every football jersey and he was the reason I became a Chelsea supporter. Love the man!

Kepa. 2 big, big saves against Mitrovic. I thought the first one was a goal for sure. 

They can shove it

Should insist that either Sarri agrees to play him or he gets sacked.
If CHO leaves that will forever be Sarris legacy here.

I'm more concerned about losing him than Hazard too. No doubt Hazard is in a different league in terms of ability right now, but Hudson-Odoi should be our future and I have already accepted that Hazard is gone now. Losing the pair of them would awful for the club.

It's not a sh*t squad.  A win vs Wolves & Everton and we'd be third.  Stubborn tactics, substitutions, and an inability to find a system that works both for his style and the players he currently has is what has kept is from being better this season.
We all acknowledge (well, most of us anyway) that Sarri does not have enough of the players he wants to play his style of football.  Should the Transfer Ban not get postponed or overturned, that isn't going to change until the summer of 2020.  Is he going to spend the next 16 months still trying to get these players to play a style that doesn't seem to suit them?  Is he going to be more willing to play Hudson-Odoi next season simply because he's 19 years old instead of 18?  Is Ampadu going to get any sort of chance to play?  Is he going to be willing to use returning loan players such as James, Tomori, Abraham, Batshuyi, or Mount?  
Have we seen enough in Sarri to believe that he is the man to get an extension beyond his current deal to help change and mold the squad, to be the guy we buy players to fit his style for?
I'm not someone who watches Napoli on a regular basis, but they don't seem to have missed Sarri this season, so is totally revolutionizing our squad for him a task worth the effort?

I'll agree that the current squad isn't as strong as what we have been used to in previous seasons. BUT Sarri still has to shoulder a fair proportion of the blame. By being so stubborn and continually picking players out of form and not trying other options. And what happened to the claims that Sarri doesn't need a huge transfer budget - he prefers to work with the players he is given and improve them? Clearly a myth.
 

just I've been trying to find words to capture how I feel about the situation and you've already done it:
If we look at our criteria:
- Wins trophies
- Plays attractive football 
- Promotes Youth. 
He ticks none of those boxes. I'm sick of us sacking managers, but if we wanted a horse to back he left last year.

The players don't have to be the constant. That is down to the coach. There are options both in terms of players, formation and tactical changes. 
I don't disagree with the concept of backing the manager. It is long overdue at our club. But I worry we would be backing the weakest manager we have had for a considerable period of time. 
 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6830279/The-future-lively-Giroud-casts-doubt-Chelsea-future.html
https://www.rtl.fr/sport/football/olivier-giroud-sur-rtl-je-pourrais-finir-ma-carriere-en-france-7797246855
The Mail reporting on an interview GIroud gave to French media. I'm assuming the Mail will pick and choose their words and translations, but this is what Giroud supposedly said:
If true, just points to some horrible man management on Sarri's part. I'm sure that Giroud is not the only player to feel this way (most importantly, Christensen and CHO)
Also, with the transfer ban, we actually might want to keep Giroud for another season. Unless the club plans to start next season with Morata, Batshuayi and Tammy?

Completely agree. With the transfer ban, we need to be focusing on building for 2020 and beyond. I think it would be a miracle to make Top 4 next season. Giving minutes to ageing and/or underperforming players like Luiz, Willian, Pedro and Alonso (if in a back 4), is just taking away precious developmental opportunities from players that are much younger, hungrier, and not that far off ability wise. Dare I say it, Azpi could find himself in that category too if he keeps up his current form. 
If we genuinely test our youngsters next season and end up finishing 10th or 11th, I would be 100% be ok with it. In fact, I would be really encouraged by a 10th place finish if we could properly bed in Christensen, CHO, RLC, while also confirming that Ampadu, Tammy, James and Mount belong in the squad with potential to improve.  The doubters here can hold me to that. We are at a crossroads and we need to be thinking about the future now. 
 

I am hoping Giroud was quoted out of context or misunderstood. Certainly seems risky for Sarri to alienate one of only 2 striker options that we have, especially if we get the transfer ban and Higuain cannot come back next season. In that situation I imagine the club would want to keep Giroud around for another year or we would really be short on options.

How would the fans handle finishing mid table to integrate the youth?
 
Probably a lot better than the seasons we finished mid table without trying to integrate youth.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6830279/The-future-lively-Giroud-casts-doubt-Chelsea-future.html
https://www.rtl.fr/sport/football/olivier-giroud-sur-rtl-je-pourrais-finir-ma-carriere-en-france-7797246855
The Mail reporting on an interview GIroud gave to French media. I'm assuming the Mail will pick and choose their words and translations, but this is what Giroud supposedly said:
If true, just points to some horrible man management on Sarri's part. I'm sure that Giroud is not the only player to feel this way (most importantly, Christensen and CHO)
Also, with the transfer ban, we actually might want to keep Giroud for another season. Unless the club plans to start next season with Morata, Batshuayi and Tammy?

Completely agree. With the transfer ban, we need to be focusing on building for 2020 and beyond. I think it would be a miracle to make Top 4 next season. Giving minutes to ageing and/or underperforming players like Luiz, Willian, Pedro and Alonso (if in a back 4), is just taking away precious developmental opportunities from players that are much younger, hungrier, and not that far off ability wise. Dare I say it, Azpi could find himself in that category too if he keeps up his current form. 
If we genuinely test our youngsters next season and end up finishing 10th or 11th, I would be 100% be ok with it. In fact, I would be really encouraged by a 10th place finish if we could properly bed in Christensen, CHO, RLC, while also confirming that Ampadu, Tammy, James and Mount belong in the squad with potential to improve.  The doubters here can hold me to that. We are at a crossroads and we need to be thinking about the future now. 
 

Agreed. Compared with our current situation it would be much more enjoyable watching a handful of young players come through the ranks, even if it means finishing outside top 6 for a bit. 

I wouldn't mind a top 8th finish where CHO,RLC,Ampadu and now Pulisic would establish themselves and start a new dynasty. Now we are 6th with no hope for the future.

I have made my mind up, I think he needs to go. It's very rare I ever say that about any coach, but I think all things considered (which I will explain below) he has to go.
For me, the transfer ban and Hazard very likely leaving changes everything. It would mean we would have to trust Sarri to lead us through a transitional period, one where we shouldn't expect much success when it comes to winning trophies or even competing for top 4 next season. For somebody like Sarri, that shouldn't be a problem, he's done that throughout his career as a manager. The problem I have with him is building a team to be ready to compete with the big teams again once we get through this period.
What Sarri has shown this season is that he is stubborn, I worry that that stubborn attitude will slow down our transition rather than improve it. I don't think Sarri will bring through youngsters, or adapt his tactics on a game by game basis to help the team actually gain any kind of momentum. I think he will continue to stick by the same senior players, the players that will most likely need to be replaced by 2020, and I don't think he will give the young players or some of the other squad players a chance to gain enough experience next season to be properly prepared and adjusted for the 2020-21 season. I think with Sarri in charge, we will lose Hudson-Odoi for free, because I have no confidence that Sarri will actually play him ahead of more experienced players like Willian and Pedro often enough or at all in the league and especially in the big games. 
In my opinion, if we stick with Sarri though this period, we will be in a position where we need a massive overhaul in the 2020 summer transfer window. I just don't believe he will be able to create a squad that you have confidence in going forward, and I don't believe we will be able to get him the players he will inevitably need by the time the 2020-21 season arrives. 
We need a coach that will adapt his tactics depending on the situation, we need a coach that will be able to get us looking like a team that is ready to take on the 2020-21 season with confidence and without needing to replace half of the team. I don't see this being possible with Sarri. I actually think with Sarri, we will gain no confidence out of next season and we will end up going backwards.
I'm all for backing the manager, but it's got to be the right manager, and I don't think Sarri is the right man to lead the squad through this period at the club.

Far too sensible to happen. 
Realistically we need at least 5 quality players adding to the team to push us back into contention at the top of the league. 
Theres is only 3 ways to get these players.
1) Buy them.
2) Improve ones we have.
3) Develop a young player. 
Sarri hasn't shown any signs of options 2 and 3, and if option 1 is off the table, we are going to be even worse next season. 
If the ban does get delayed, then I would be happy to give sarri another season if we brought in some real quality in the summer. But I have very little faith in that being the case.

If we've got a transfer ban going into the summer then I wouldn't appose the idea of new managerial team coming in with the brief of "we've got all these youngsters, let's see what they can do for a year". 
Arguments sake it's Steve Holland with JT as his assistant, both really familiar with club and know a lot about the youth players already. 
They come in and they're there to bring out the best in CHO, Ampadu, Christensen, Abraham, RLC and we move on some of the more senior players like Willian, Luiz for example and maybe bring through a couple of others in place of the likes of Zappacosta who are fringe players anyway.
If that happened, as unlikely as it is, I think fans would show a lot more patience than they have with the team this season. 

I disagree with this argument solely because, if a player is not developed accordingly by one club and they don't use him and shift him on, he then is in a whole new surroundings. There is no coincidence that our youth teams excel every season but majority of them don't end up in our first team and thus, they gradually are shifted out on loan, albeit because we have not given them a chance. I remember watching Chelsea U19 against Ajax U19 in next gen series this time three years ago. We won the game 1-0, in a really hard thought battle. Ajax fielded the likes of De Lijt who is coveted by almost all the big teams around Europe and considered one of the best CB around, already at his young age. They also had Van den de Beek playing who I think will be a top club too in the not doo distant future. Kluivert was a sub that game, can you believe it or not, however couple seasons after that he was a regular in Ajax team and got a move to Roma, because he was too good for the Eredivisie. Barca and United also were heavily linked with him. Frankie de Jong was not even around the first team or the U19 at that point but has got a chance in the first team and now is moving to Barca.
Jake Clarke-Salter was standout player for us in that game and competition but because we fail to give him the chance, he won't get the chance to prove himself at another major team because they won't take the gamble, but for instance had he played for Ajax, he may be getting the recognition. If you were watching the next gen series that season, no way would anyone would have concretely say Kluivert is better than Kasey Palmer, who was on another level that season, however we instantly loan Palmer to a Championship club and we don't have enough faith to give him a chance in the first team but say he had been at Ajax, he may have got the opportunity Kluivert had and found himself with a platform to a bigger club like Kluivert found by moving from Ajax to Roma.
Colkett too. Another classy player too who had he been integrated in the first team, would look a better player but sending him out on loan, some players struggle to make that impact as the level around you is not good. Put Colkett in Ajax and circumstances might be different because he is playing in a possession based team and probably would get chances.
If you fail to give your youngsters opportunities, it can have a detriment on the player in the long term in terms of the level they are playing at. I remember a few seasons ago our u19 battered Schalke U19. Both Sane and Kehrer were playing that game. They both eventually got in the first team for Schalke and now both are playing in the first team of two major teams in Europe. Our youngsters battered them. However, lack of opportunity means our players in long run will decline and not reach same level as other players who during the youth years probably were around a similar level. Just imagine if Kehrer was at our club. Do you reckon he would be at PSG now? Doubt it.

How many players developed by our academy over the past two decades have had one of the biggest clubs in Europe and offer 35million for them before they'd even played an hour of top flight league football?
Honestly if we are attacking cliched arguments then the biggest cliche is the one you put forward, that "among the best in the world in their position" players are keeping youth from getting chances..... name me the last time Chelsea had two world class wingers, because it sure don't describe the situation Callum Hudson-Odoi is currently facing.
There is an ocean of difference between home grown youth players with potential and truly world class players, I 100% agree...... but are you really advocating that's how we should describe Willian and Pedro? As among the best in the world for attacking wide players?  Because if they were deserving to be described as such I don't think the bleating for CHO would be as loud as it is.  
Perhaps in training these youth are not showing they are good enough to replace or challenge the senior players, but we see on a weekly basis those senior players aren't exactly showing they are good enough either it so why no give more minutes to the player who actually has an upward trajectory?
We can cite the hypothetical of what is being seen in training, but why not look at hard facts? Like the fact that CHO has as many Europa League goals (4) in 8 appearances ( 4 starts) as Willian and Pedro have combined in a combined 17 appearances (15 starts between them )?  I mean I'd compare BPL stats but CHO has to actually play a significant amount of minutes for that to work and he's only gotten 2 hours across something like 6 games....
Cliches can also be correct and based on facts.  Just because something is cliche doesn't make it wrong ...well maybe if you're some edgy/trendy hipster (not that I throwthis allegation, but it's the only demographic I can envisage condemning a cliche even when the cliche is the best advice/course available).
 
PS, Real Madrid.  We do have a fickle fan base, but if you can't think of a club with more fickle fans than either you're being disingenuous to prove a point or you're not thinking....... but why this even matters I don't know, because decisions at CFC have never been made based on the mood of the fans and Sarri has gone on the record numerous times saying directly or inferring that he simply does not care about the opinion of the fans.....so a bit of a red herring in my view.

There is a sense of inevitability about our games at the moment, particularly away from home. We will dominate for half hour, have 2 or 3 decent chances, not score and then the other team will go up the other end and score with their first real attack. Then our heads go and we are beaten and we don't react.
What is disappointing is the amount of points we've won from losing positions this year. Off the top of my head i can think of Cardiff 4-1, Wolves 1-1 and United 2-2 and Liverpool in the cup game. There might be others but I can't think of any right now. It seems like we don't ever prepare for the possibility that we could concede first in a game and as a result we are beaten as soon as we are a goal down. 
Sarri's changes are always reactionary and until recently have always been like for like. 
I liked the way we started the season but as soon as teams begun to suss us out which was around October/ November time, Sarri has done absolutely nothing to tweak his system to put us one step ahead of our opponents. All of the top coaches are constantly tweaking things on a match by match basis in order to get the best result. Sarri hasn't done that, and keeps making it far too easy for other teams to prepare for us and know how to beat us.
I also think if we are struggling to break teams down who are defending with 10 men behind the ball, that we should utilise Giroud more than we do. Rather than trying to break defences down with every single attack, surely it wouldn't hurt to go direct every now and then and work off the flick-ons from Giroud. 
 

I think that's one of my main gripes about Sarri. We just don't seem prepared when it comes to the little details. Nor are we prepared to react to different situations. 
Quite surprising given reports about him (in Italy) using drone videos in practice, different throw in routines (according to Chalobah), 33 deadball situations etc.
Perhaps there really isn't enough time in between games, and all or practice time is being spent on getting the "basics" of Sarriball right
Unfortunately, I'm just not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

I thought one of the best quotes I read was when Conte was appointed and he said that the coach was a tailor and had to stitch together the parts he had.  The first 3 or 4 games were underwhelming, he changed, and we took off from there.  Jose was also a master of adapting and changing things when things weren't working.  What I think frustrates us is that Sarri is not the one to adapt and change.  He's looking for the players to do it. He's being stubborn and when things aren't working, he digs his heels in and continues to do the same things, but for some reason, expects a different result (the definition of insanity).  
A manager is supposed to figure out how to get the best out of his employees.  When you manage people, you tell them what your expectations are for them, and you create an environment that helps them meet (or exceed) those expectations.  If they don't, you figure out why, and correct it.  If that still doesn't work, you find others who will.  The other issue is that Sarri continues with the same players he accuses of being mentally weak, or those that don't move the ball as he wants.  There's no consequence for not doing what he's asking.