Set pieces. What's the problem?

[54veteran]

Why is it we seem unable to defend set pieces? Why can't we do what most teams further down the table can do? Is it Cech's lack of confidence, Terry's lack of authority, or what? Do we really want Drogba helping out at the back?

[Bridgeboy]

I'm not going to waste my time thiking about, I'm not getting paid 5mil a year to do that.

My guess it is just organisation.

[rahul]

I blame Peter Kenyon....

.....no, I blame Steve Clark! Ever since he left, we've been sh*t at defending set pieces.

or maybe its the age of the players. Since most of them are old, they dont jump high enough or suffer short term memory loss while marking their man.

Let me make up my mind first.

[Bridgeboy]

There all thinking about who has Vanessa tonight.

[CFCCAN]

Ever since Cech got injured he has never been the same goalkeeper, the defenders are waiting for him to come for the ball, as he probably does in training, but he gets frozen at times during the game and before the defenders can react the balls in the net; mind you "if it doubt get it out"......except in JT's case where he left in and got caught.....

[rahul]

Cech cannot come out to catch every ball. Against Hull I saw at least three different occasions when a majority of Hull players were left free inside the box...they scored from one of them. When you're man marking, you are supposed to stick to your man whether or not you expect the keeper to come to catch the ball.

[sals]

Against Hull for every corner he faced he had that fagan guy (a right prick by the way) getting all up in his face and if you watch the goal fagan was actually obstructing Cech from getting to the ball. A lot of the set pieces we have conceded from have been misfortune but i will admit that yes we do have a problem.

Just a sidenote i loved it when Ashley came on in the last ten minutes and gave Fagan a clinic in defending

Edited February 4, 2010 by sals

[High Street Ken]

I think it's wrong to assume that we're really bad at defending set pieces, given our overall defensive record. Obviously the occasional error is going to get highlighted when we're at the top of the table. There's not a team in the league that doesn't suffer occasional lapses.

However, if JT's the amazing man motivator and organiser everyone seems to think he is, then much of the blame should rest squarely on his shoulders (sorry JT, I know it's been a bad week!)

[Bridgeboy]

Against Hull for every corner he faced he had that fagan guy (a right prick by the way) getting all up in his face and if you watch the goal fagan was actually obstructing Cech from getting to the ball. A lot of the set pieces we have conceded from have been misfortune but i will admit that yes we do have a problem.

Just a sidenote i loved it when Ashley came on in the last ten minutes and gave Fagan a clinic in defending

Agreed that Fagan is a lippy little sh*t who probably feels nothing but jealousy for the top players. He seems to have a bit of a chip on his shoulder. Muppet !

Edited February 4, 2010 by Bridgeboy

[54veteran]

Agreed that Fagan is a lippy little sh*t who probably feels nothing but jealousy for the top players. He seems to have a bit of a chip on his shoulder. Muppet !

Maybe it's partly the fact that CA is still trying to do it the Italian way, where they don't rely on big hit men up front. Cultured football just isn't enough in the Premier league, as Scolari discovered. If we hadn't given away so many laughably soft goals, we'd be riding high by now. I'd offer Lee Dixon a job as defense coach.

[dkw]

Maybe it's partly the fact that CA is still trying to do it the Italian way, where they don't rely on big hit men up front. Cultured football just isn't enough in the Premier league, as Scolari discovered. If we hadn't given away so many laughably soft goals, we'd be riding high by now. I'd offer Lee Dixon a job as defense coach.

bloody hell, have you seen him on MOTD? i wouldnt offer him a job serving burgers at the bridge.

[charierre]

We have a tendency to bring all players back at set pieces, maybe if we left 2 up top or box wouldnt get as congested and Cech would be more at ease in coming out to collect the ball?

[Cam]

Petr Cech doesn't command the area as much as he needs to. Sometimes that's down to the defence falling back to much, and not giving him much room to come forward and claim the ball. Other times, Petr Cech seems to get caught in two minds, and half-heartedly comes out, and is caught in no man's land. Other times, we are just unlucky with the a clearance, or else beat by a genuinely good piece of football. However, that's not too common.

I think John Terry needs to absolutely command the defensive line, ensuring without fail that the defensive line is high, and the right players are in the right area of the box, to nullify the danger of the specific situations and specific player threats. Furthermore, Petr Cech needs his confidence back. Excellent stopper in general, but he doesn't seem to handle dangerous crosses or free-kicks at all well at times. He either needs to commit to the ball when he can, and legally nudge players away from the ball so he can catch it, or stay back and try his best to save any touch the opposition get if the ball may not be able to be reached in time. So instead of running the risk and coming out part way and left no-where, just stay in a good position near the line if not confident about being able to catch it.

Now the defensive structures need to be worked on thoroughly by Ancelotti, and the defensive coach, so the whole team can co-operate and defend effectively. It may be worth hiring a short term defensive coach with new ideas and structures to try help solve the problem. Obviously Petr Cech needs to have serious coaching sessions with the GK coach, as well as being involved in the team set piece training. That's the only real short coming of him as a keeper nowadays, and unfortunately it's a rather noticeable one.

However, unless this is acknowledged by Ancelotti and the stuff as a legitimate problem (which I'm not 100% certain it has, because it doesn't seem to have improved), then we will continue to struggle. Cut out ridiculous set piece conceding and Chelsea become almost the perfect team. Draws become hard faught wins, good wins become large wins, narrow losses could be well-earned draws. In short, set piece defending could be the difference between winning the title, or not. Because let's face it, almost all goals we concede are from set pieces.

Anyway, that's my view.

[geezer]

For corners when you have Cech standing at 6' 5 you do not need Drogs defending the edge of the 6 yard box (how many times has Cech punched him in the head so far this season?). They are just getting in each others way or creating hesitancy as to who is actually going to attack the ball which came across loud and clear for Hull's goal the other night when neither of them attacked it.

As for the free kicks where we have been exposed time and again this season with people being given free headers, the first problem is the tendency to drop too deep which doesn't allow Cech to come and claim the ball. As a result of this the defence has tried to consciously stay high to allow Cech to come and claim the cross but because one or two are still dropping too deep he still doesn't come for it.

What I'd like to see us do a couple of times, risky though it may be is for the defence to surge forward as the free kick taker takes his penultimate stride to take the kick, This would leave the attacking team totally offside. This would only need to be done a couple of times in order to create uncertainty in the minds of the attackers. Risky I know but if done in an organised fashion very effective (my village team have used this to great effect this season having only let in 10 goals in 18 games with only one coming from a set piece - they let in over 100 goals last season!).

[Gem]

I'm not going to waste my time thiking about, I'm not getting paid 5mil a year to do that.

Brilliant

[Ruh Buh Juh]

Communication is an issue. Cech doesn't seem to call for anything, so either no one gets to the ball or the opposition team gets it. It's bizarre, I dread every set-piece we have to defend nowadays.

[dkw]

i think the problem stems from us now crowding the box at set pieces. my old manager many years ago had a simple way of dealing with em, he had the best headers of the ball in the box and the keeper. the rest waited on the edge. therefore the 4 and keeper had more space to attack the ball. worked really well too.

[rahul]

What I'd like to see us do a couple of times, risky though it may be is for the defence to surge forward as the free kick taker takes his penultimate stride to take the kick.

I quite like that idea. Wonder why its not used often by managers around the world? Maybe because its way too risky and tough to execute?

[54veteran]

But Drogba is surely the last person you want back in his own penalty area, even for set pieces. It just encourages the opposition to throw central defenders forward, safe in the knowledge that the breakaway isn't likely.

[dkw]

But Drogba is surely the last person you want back in his own penalty area, even for set pieces. It just encourages the opposition to throw central defenders forward, safe in the knowledge that the breakaway isn't likely.

not necessarily, not if we put 2 pacy players on the halfway line, they would need to keep a minimum of 3 players back.

[bluegraham]

CECH

[bluevale2]

For corners when you have Cech standing at 6' 5 you do not need Drogs defending the edge of the 6 yard box (how many times has Cech punched him in the head so far this season?). They are just getting in each others way or creating hesitancy as to who is actually going to attack the ball which came across loud and clear for Hull's goal the other night when neither of them attacked it.

As for the free kicks where we have been exposed time and again this season with people being given free headers, the first problem is the tendency to drop too deep which doesn't allow Cech to come and claim the ball. As a result of this the defence has tried to consciously stay high to allow Cech to come and claim the cross but because one or two are still dropping too deep he still doesn't come for it.

What I'd like to see us do a couple of times, risky though it may be is for the defence to surge forward as the free kick taker takes his penultimate stride to take the kick, This would leave the attacking team totally offside. This would only need to be done a couple of times in order to create uncertainty in the minds of the attackers. Risky I know but if done in an organised fashion very effective (my village team have used this to great effect this season having only let in 10 goals in 18 games with only one coming from a set piece - they let in over 100 goals last season!).

That's definitely worth a try. Also we could employ the same trick on opposition keepers as Hull did against us. I thought it was quite effective.

Edited February 4, 2010 by bluevale2

[SydneyChelsea]

not necessarily, not if we put 2 pacy players on the halfway line, they would need to keep a minimum of 3 players back.

This is Chelsea we're talking about, our paciest players are our f**king left backs.

[Phillip]

When we play with Joe Cole, A. Cole, Franky, Mikel and Bossy, or some combination of them, we have serious problems with their aerial man-marking, since none of them is really good in the air, and a half-decent player can get to a corner and head it on goal. We are kind of like Arsenal in our lack of aerial strength, absent Drogba and perhaps Ballack, and we need to get better in that regard (don't know how, with our current squad).

[SydneyChelsea]

When we play with Joe Cole, A. Cole, Franky, Mikel and Bossy, or some combination of them, we have serious problems with their aerial man-marking, since none of them is really good in the air, and a half-decent player can get to a corner and head it on goal. We are kind of like Arsenal in our lack of aerial strength, absent Drogba and perhaps Ballack, and we need to get better in that regard (don't know how, with our current squad).

As much as people talk about the aerial strength of Drogba and Ballack, it's funny that those two crop up in match threads as the source of error at set-pieces.

You don't have to be fantastic in the air to defend aerially. You need to be able to position the body and track markers and make them unable to get a clean contact with the ball. Ashley Cole may be rubbish in the air but he uses his body to stop his opponent getting clean headers.