Jump to content

Barcelona, more than just a football club


dkw

Recommended Posts

As the Barcelona fans and staff like to say, they are more than just a football club. Well there right, there a football club massively in the sh*t and seemingly on the verge of bankruptcy. Wonder what messr`s Platini and blatter will have to say about this:-

Barcelona, which added World Cup top scorer David Villa this offseason, is negotiating a 150 million- euro ($188.6 million) bank loan after falling behind with salary payments to players. The soccer club denied it’s bankrupt.

The 2009 European champion hopes to secure the loan in a few days, Barcelona President Sandro Rosell said, according to the team Web site. Rosell, who replaced Joan Laporta last week, didn’t identify the banks the club is negotiating with or name players affected by the wage delay.

“We have to finance†our short-term obligations such as wages, Rosell said, adding the team also plans to trade defender Dmytro Chygrynskiy back to Shakhtar Donetsk for 15 million euros, 10 million less than it paid for him in August 2009. Club members “can relax,†Rosell added. “The club isn’t bankrupt.â€

Last week, Barcelona said it became the world’s biggest sports team by sales, overtaking Real Madrid. Revenue rose 16 percent to 445.5 million euros for the year through June 30 following its 2009 Champions League title. Net income was 9 million euros.

Spanish soccer clubs are under pressure from spiraling payroll costs, two years of recession and a credit crunch, according to a study last month by Barcelona University professor Jose Maria Gay. On June 16, Mediaproduccion SL, owner of the broadcast rights for the domestic league, said it sought bankruptcy protection.

TV Deal

Barcelona’s seven-year, 1 billion-euro contract with Mediapro through 2013 isn’t secured by a bank guarantee, unlike Real Madrid’s accord, Rosell said. While Barcelona has had assurances from Mediapro, concern over the contract remains, Rosell said, according to the website.

The team’s costs soared the last year as it paid out 40 million euros in bonuses to players and coaches after winning several trophies, the team said last week.

Barcelona, which is owned by its members, acquired Villa from Valencia for 40 million euros in May. He has scored five World Cup goals in five games.

Rosell played down speculation that the club is poised to sign Arsenal captain Cesc Fabregas, even though he said “everyone knows he wants to come here.â€

He “denied adamantly†that there was any possibility of Barcelona paying 50 to 60 million euros for the midfielder. Publicity about the possible deal was “the worst thing that could have happened,†he said.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


This kind of thing may be exactly the reason why Sandro Rosell was elected President. He claimed there was a debt albatross around the club's neck, when Laporta was denying any such thing.

DKW, my prediction will be that they will have absolutely no comment on the issue. Its a sad fact that financial doping is classed as wealth beneficiaries, whereas sweetheart deals with banks are just ignored. And in Barca's case, thats obviously much more dangerous, because nobody seems to know the truth.

But I guess the logic is that certain clubs are "too big" to fail. La Liga seems to be totally out of touch with financial reality, and I think a major crisis is unavoidable in the next year. They are far worse off, right now, than the Premier League, and yet their amassing of expensive talent shows no signs of stopping.

Meanwhile, the rest of the league made a loss for the financial year, their fourth place club declared bankruptcy, and their third place club is over 400 million in debt. Something has got to give soon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Personally I can never understand how this happens.

Surely football clubs employ legitimate financial teams whose job it is, is to ensure that these level of debts never occur!!??? I know we have watched the banking industry bailed out by the government during the recession, but, on the face of it the maths look a lot simpler in this case and the club is continuing to massively over spend even through a recession.

Or is that just crazy talk?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This kind of thing may be exactly the reason why Sandro Rosell was elected President. He claimed there was a debt albatross around the club's neck, when Laporta was denying any such thing.

DKW, my prediction will be that they will have absolutely no comment on the issue. Its a sad fact that financial doping is classed as wealth beneficiaries, whereas sweetheart deals with banks are just ignored. And in Barca's case, thats obviously much more dangerous, because nobody seems to know the truth.

But I guess the logic is that certain clubs are "too big" to fail. La Liga seems to be totally out of touch with financial reality, and I think a major crisis is unavoidable in the next year. They are far worse off, right now, than the Premier League, and yet their amassing of expensive talent shows no signs of stopping.

Meanwhile, the rest of the league made a loss for the financial year, their fourth place club declared bankruptcy, and their third place club is over 400 million in debt. Something has got to give soon.

I read somewhere that only 3 clubs in spain didnt make a loss and it was Real, Barcelona and relegated Numancia. Barelona only actually made £8 million, and that was with the ridiculous tv money they get. The 2 buffoons go on about the prem but La Liga is a disgrace the way 2 teams get their massive tv deals and the rest scrabble about for a few quid here and there. But as you say nothing will be done or said about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Hmm, well it's clever accounting that means a club can make an 8m profit and then need a 150m credit line to pay it's players. Strange.

Plantini and co. would probably bail them out if need be, such is their hard on for them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think I've already posted it n the past but here's the Wall Street Journal take on the state of affairs in La Liga.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704026204575266652470897136.html?mod=WSJ_latestheadlines

Spanish football teams are shooting for a new goal: To break even.

In an effort to tackle reckless spending and rising debts among the 20 La Liga clubs, the country's top teams will be subjected to financial regulation by a new independent body established by the Spanish government to ensure that teams are living within their means.

Clubs won't be allowed to spend more than 70% or 75% of their income on player wages or transfer fees under new proposals from Jaime Lissavetzky, the country's secretary of state for sport, which are expected to come into force for the 2011-12 season and will include powers to exclude offenders from competition.

"We have to learn from the subprime [mortgage crisis]," Mr. Lissavetzky said. "There will be an independent body that will allow clubs to take part in competitions according to the state of their accounts."

The new controls come as the combined debts of Spain's top-flight clubs leapt to €3.53 billion ($4.37 billion), according to an academic study by José María Gay de Liébena, a professor at the University of Barcelona and an adviser to UEFA. Barcelona and Real Madrid, the country's two biggest clubs, and lowly Numancia were the only teams to post an operating profit for the 2008-09 season—the latest for which accounts are available.

The salaries of star players such as Barcelona's Lionel Messi and Real Madrid's Cristiano Ronaldo helped drive up labor costs for La Liga clubs to 85% of total operating income in that period.

At several clubs, including perennial challengers Sevilla, Atlético Madrid and Valencia, spending on wages was significantly higher than the clubs' respective operating incomes. The combined La Liga debt for the previous season was €3.49 billion, Mr. Gay de Liébena's research showed.

The findings raise serious questions over whether Spanish clubs can satisfy the "financial fair play" rules that UEFA is expected to implement at the start of the 2012-13 season which require all teams to be operating within their income in order to participate in European tournaments.

"The situation in Spain is especially bad," said José-María Cruz, the vice-president of Sevilla. "There are six or seven of the 20 clubs in La Liga who are in bankruptcy or administration [a form of bankruptcy protection] through difficulties with social security and the tax authorities."

The scale of economic instability in La Liga was underscored last week when Real Mallorca, which finished fifth in the league this season and only narrowly missed out on a berth in next year's UEFA Champions League, filed for voluntary administration in an attempt to regain control of its finances. Mallorca had an operating income of €28.1 million for the 2008-09 season, according to Mr. Gay de Liébena's study . The team had labor costs of €34.6 million, contributing to a pretax loss of €5.2 million.

"Spanish football is in a very difficult situation, like our economy," Mr. Gay de Liébena said. "You can't spend more than you earn: This is the fundamental rule for economic survival."

Against this unsteady backdrop, many of Spain's top-flight teams are clamoring for a change to the way television revenue is distributed. Leading football clubs rely heavily on the cash from broadcast companies to finance player acquisitions and pay the huge salaries of the sport's leading players, with television income accounting for 39% of top-division football teams' total revenue across Europe.

But unlike the top leagues in England, France and Germany, where collective bargaining means television income is divided fairly evenly between each team, Spanish football allows its clubs to conduct their own negotiations.

That means La Liga is running on the most uneven playing field of Europe's major leagues: In Germany, France and England, the richest clubs make between two and three times as much television income as the lowest-paid teams, according to sports-marketing research company Sport+Markt. In Spain, Barcelona and Real Madrid—the world's wealthiest professional clubs—rake in more than double the broadcast revenue of Valencia, the country's third-placed team, and almost 19 times as much as minnows such as Xerez.

Cash-strapped rival clubs are now pushing for a change to this system and earlier this month issued a request to the government to introduce legislation forcing La Liga teams to adopt collective bargaining for broadcast rights.

But Mr. Lissavetzky says the government won't force teams to strike joint TV deals. "I don't think they want to see an interventionist government," he said. "There must be self-regulation, the clubs have to sit at a table and find the best model."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Much as I understand many Chelsea fans dislike of Barcelona because of recent on and off pitch antics I don't think we should let this cloud our judgement. Nor do I think we should laugh at the ridiculous financial state of many football clubs because of our relatively comfortable position at the moment. Regardless of how much money Barca currently owe or how unfair their TV deals may be I think the principle of the fans jointly owning their club as members is fantastic. What other options are there for a club to be successful? Being bankrolled by a rich sugar-daddy; fun whilst it lasts but not realistic in the long term and bound to end in tears at some stage. Being owned by shareholders who aren't necessarily fans? Can work if shareholders are in it for long term and looking for relatively modest returns but remember profits is what investors are really after and clubs are at risk of being used to make big bucks by business men with no real interest in the club's long term success. Think how great the whole Chelsea Pitch Owners thing was, think about Wimbledon FC, MK Dons and AFC Wimbledon and then decide which side of the fence you would rather be on. As a fan knowing that the club truly belongs to you and that every £ you spend on tickets or whatever goes directly towards financing the club must feel good and is a truly rare thing in the modern world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Much as I understand many Chelsea fans dislike of Barcelona because of recent on and off pitch antics I don't think we should let this cloud our judgement. Nor do I think we should laugh at the ridiculous financial state of many football clubs because of our relatively comfortable position at the moment. Regardless of how much money Barca currently owe or how unfair their TV deals may be I think the principle of the fans jointly owning their club as members is fantastic. What other options are there for a club to be successful? Being bankrolled by a rich sugar-daddy; fun whilst it lasts but not realistic in the long term and bound to end in tears at some stage. Being owned by shareholders who aren't necessarily fans? Can work if shareholders are in it for long term and looking for relatively modest returns but remember profits is what investors are really after and clubs are at risk of being used to make big bucks by business men with no real interest in the club's long term success. Think how great the whole Chelsea Pitch Owners thing was, think about Wimbledon FC, MK Dons and AFC Wimbledon and then decide which side of the fence you would rather be on. As a fan knowing that the club truly belongs to you and that every £ you spend on tickets or whatever goes directly towards financing the club must feel good and is a truly rare thing in the modern world.

What a load of tosh !

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Being an icon of Catalonia?

From Martin Samuel / Daily mail:

Arrogant Barca teach us nothingBarcelona are once again proving to be more than a club. Right now, for instance, they are more a giant financial black hole and in such trouble they need to sell players to ease what Sandro Rosell, the new president, called a short-term liquidity problem.

Translation: they're skint. No wonder Barcelona's directors are so opposed to the collective agreement Premier League clubs in England reach on broadcast rights. If Barcelona were required to share their individually negotiated bounty with the other clubs in La Liga they would have fallen into the sea long ago.

Targeted: Cesc Fabregas is wanted by the Barcelona president

Rosell was forced to make his announcement concerning the parlous state of the finances on radio, admitting that Dmytro Chygrynskiy had been sold back to Shakhtar Donetsk in Ukraine at a £10million loss just to ease the crisis. This from a club who have already cashed in on Yaya Toure to Manchester City for £24m (and doesn't that look another shrewd bit of business at Eastlands in the light of these revelations).

It would appear the previous administration overspent and now Rosell's administration is stuck with the bill. We know the feeling.

Things are so desperate that Rosell can barely afford the first-class fare to tap up Cesc Fabregas in the hope of forcing Arsenal to sell an unhappy player on the cheap.

'The Cesc situation is public knowledge so I'll try to talk to him when I go to South Africa,' said Rosell. 'Everyone knows he wants to come here and we want him back, but there are some things you cannot say until a deal is closed or you pay a premium. We will not pay £40m or £50m for Cesc.'

That should be no deal then. The arrogance of Barcelona is such, however, that, even without the money and a good £20m short of Arsenal's asking price, the president is still angling to open negotiations with a contracted player.

And this from a club whose much-vaunted morality is used to beat up our Premier League on an almost weekly basis? This is the business model to which we should aspire? These are the people who presume to lecture on ethics?

Welcome to the Potless Millionaires Club, Barcelona. Now shut up.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-1292630/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Twenty20-cricket-passing-fad--like-Pixie-Geldof-Lib-Dems.html#ixzz0sygzOPtw

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Much as I understand many Chelsea fans dislike of Barcelona because of recent on and off pitch antics I don't think we should let this cloud our judgement. Nor do I think we should laugh at the ridiculous financial state of many football clubs because of our relatively comfortable position at the moment. Regardless of how much money Barca currently owe or how unfair their TV deals may be I think the principle of the fans jointly owning their club as members is fantastic. What other options are there for a club to be successful? Being bankrolled by a rich sugar-daddy; fun whilst it lasts but not realistic in the long term and bound to end in tears at some stage. Being owned by shareholders who aren't necessarily fans? Can work if shareholders are in it for long term and looking for relatively modest returns but remember profits is what investors are really after and clubs are at risk of being used to make big bucks by business men with no real interest in the club's long term success. Think how great the whole Chelsea Pitch Owners thing was, think about Wimbledon FC, MK Dons and AFC Wimbledon and then decide which side of the fence you would rather be on. As a fan knowing that the club truly belongs to you and that every £ you spend on tickets or whatever goes directly towards financing the club must feel good and is a truly rare thing in the modern world.

Wow, youve been sucked into the "more than a club" thing havent you. The fans joint own it in name only, the club still answers to shareholders, banks and financiers the same as most other clubs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, youve been sucked into the "more than a club" thing havent you. The fans joint own it in name only, the club still answers to shareholders, banks and financiers the same as most other clubs.

I don't know the ins and outs of how things work at Barcelona, was merely pointing out that I like the idea of the fans being the owners and shareholders of their club. Maybe in reality that's not how it works at Barcelona and maybe in the modern world a big business is not capable of being run like that. I am no financial expert and have no desire to be but it does seem to me that so many football clubs these days including most of the ones at the very top are extremely vulnerable. Maybe I'm a bit idealistic and naive about such things, who knows.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know the ins and outs of how things work at Barcelona, was merely pointing out that I like the idea of the fans being the owners and shareholders of their club. Maybe in reality that's not how it works at Barcelona and maybe in the modern world a big business is not capable of being run like that. I am no financial expert and have no desire to be but it does seem to me that so many football clubs these days including most of the ones at the very top are extremely vulnerable. Maybe I'm a bit idealistic and naive about such things, who knows.

i think you're being very naive. it's a similar story with the way Barcelona take the moral high ground over sponsorship. truth is, they've never needed the kind of sponsorship sought by most clubs because of the way TV finances are weighted in their favour.

similarly with the "beautiful game" myth propagated by the likes of Barcelona and Arsenal, and even Brazil. i think it was Pele who first coined the phrase. . football isn't a beautiful game, never has been. it's a sport. with elements of attack and defence, creativity has it's place, but so do negative tactics, backs against the wall defending and so on.

Barcelona fans, management and players have an obnoxious air of superiority about them - to listen to them, they are the guardians of this mythical beautiful game. only they play football the way it should be played. and it's crap. sure the passing game is pleasing on the eye. but look at the petulance common to Barcelona players - Barcelona, the team that taught the world to dive. Barcelona, the biggest bunch of steaming hypocrites on the footballing planet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


i think you're being very naive. it's a similar story with the way Barcelona take the moral high ground over sponsorship. truth is, they've never needed the kind of sponsorship sought by most clubs because of the way TV finances are weighted in their favour.

similarly with the "beautiful game" myth propagated by the likes of Barcelona and Arsenal, and even Brazil. i think it was Pele who first coined the phrase. . football isn't a beautiful game, never has been. it's a sport. with elements of attack and defence, creativity has it's place, but so do negative tactics, backs against the wall defending and so on.

Barcelona fans, management and players have an obnoxious air of superiority about them - to listen to them, they are the guardians of this mythical beautiful game. only they play football the way it should be played. and it's crap. sure the passing game is pleasing on the eye. but look at the petulance common to Barcelona players - Barcelona, the team that taught the world to dive. Barcelona, the biggest bunch of steaming hypocrites on the footballing planet.

They don't like it when you don't let them pass to each other!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i think you're being very naive. it's a similar story with the way Barcelona take the moral high ground over sponsorship. truth is, they've never needed the kind of sponsorship sought by most clubs because of the way TV finances are weighted in their favour.

similarly with the "beautiful game" myth propagated by the likes of Barcelona and Arsenal, and even Brazil. i think it was Pele who first coined the phrase. . football isn't a beautiful game, never has been. it's a sport. with elements of attack and defence, creativity has it's place, but so do negative tactics, backs against the wall defending and so on.

Barcelona fans, management and players have an obnoxious air of superiority about them - to listen to them, they are the guardians of this mythical beautiful game. only they play football the way it should be played. and it's crap. sure the passing game is pleasing on the eye. but look at the petulance common to Barcelona players - Barcelona, the team that taught the world to dive. Barcelona, the biggest bunch of steaming hypocrites on the footballing planet.

::clap2:: Saved me typing exactly the same thing. They love to point out they have no sponsor but ignore the way they basically ride roughshod over every other team bar Madrid when it comes to tv rights.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rosell played down speculation that the club is poised to sign Arsenal captain Cesc Fabregas, even though he said “everyone knows he wants to come here.â€

He “denied adamantly†that there was any possibility of Barcelona paying 50 to 60 million euros for the midfielder. Publicity about the possible deal was “the worst thing that could have happened,†he said.

What the F***!

If Barca fans takes pride in their football its OK. Thats what football fans are.

But for a nuetral - rational football lover, outside the pitch, and occasionally on the pitch, barca are as bad as any. Whether it is on transfers, fans behaviour, and financial management.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just had lunch with a bloke from Barca and a proud Barca fan. He's not like those described in this thread, he accepts that everything is weighted in their favour (along with Real) in terms of the finance available to them in Spain - although he rightly states that any club in the world would make the most of oportunities that are open to them, each time we sign a new shirt sponsor it's the biggest ever! He has just said to me that the only way of making things fair would be to level everything from the size and value of the squad to the earnings of the tea lady - even then it won't be level because players will go to the club with the history. He's got a point.

The difficulty now is to make sure the gap between the haves and the have nots does not continue to grow the way it has done recently, I hope Barca and a few other massive clubs do hit some serious financial trouble just because it might make people realise that football is currently living in a bubble and it needs to be bought back down to earth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brillian writer and pretty much only reason I ever check out the Daily Mail

They don't like it when you don't let them pass to each other!

Did you not know? Playing good defence is antifootball!!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Brillian writer and pretty much only reason I ever check out the Daily Mail

Did you not know? Playing good defence is antifootball!!!!!

Even the mention of the word "Defence" anywhere near the temple on Nou makes Barce fans cross themselves and whisper "El football Diablo".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry if this has been posted, but it appears the player's haven't been paid their wages...!

Click

"We found a club in debt, with liquidity problems," he said. "At this point we have to take a loan to pay the wages of the players.

"The squad were supposed to be paid at the end of last month and still haven't been.

He does go on to say there's no need to panic however....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Extent of Barcelona's debt revealed by fresh audit

A new audit into Barcelona's finances have revealed the club's debt is 442m euros (£369.5m) after a loss of more than 77m euros (£64.36m) last season.

The previous board, led by Joan Laporta, had announced the club was 11m euros in the black at the end of June.

But a new audit carried out by Deloitte for new president Sandro Rosell's team reveals a far less healthy scenario.

The news comes as Barca spokesman Toni Freixa said Arsenal are still refusing to negotiate the sale of Cesc Fabregas.

Fabregas has been the subject of a transfer saga which has run all summer, with departed Barca president Laporta and Rosell both left frustrated by Arsenal's tough stance.

Since having a 35m euro (£29m) bid turned down earlier this summer, Barca have made several attempts to speak to Arsenal, but Freixa says the Londoners are unwilling to budge.

"Arsenal don't want to sit down and negotiate with us. It's not a problem with the wishes of Cesc or of Barca - they simply don't want to negotiate," he said.

Fabregas, who still has five years to run on his Arsenal contract, has stated he would like to play for Barcelona, while Barca players such as Andres Iniesta, Xavi and David Villa have all publicly urged the 23-year-old to leave London for the Catalan giants this summer.

Still, along with Arsenal's unwillingness to enter negotiations, it remains uncertain whether Barcelona could afford what would almost certainly be a weighty fee for the Gunners playmaker.

The audit shows that Barca's costs in the 2009-10 season rose to £400m, with their income at £341.7m.

Barca also had to recently take out a loan of around £125m after falling behind with the payment of player wages at the end of June, while central defender Dymtro Chygrynskiy was hastily sold to Shakhtar Donetsk to raise much-needed funds for the club.

Nevertheless, Barca have already signed striker Villa this summer for £33.4m and are willing to spend as much or even more to bring Arsenal midfielder Fabregas to the Nou Camp, Rossell said earlier this month.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/8859257.stm

64m loss eh? I bet Platini is scrambling to scrap his financial fair play laws as we speak.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Well, this is awkward!

awkward the office GIF

The Shed End Forum relies on revenue to pay for hosting and upgrades. While we try to keep adverts as unobtrusive as possible without pop ups, we need to run ad's to make sure we can stay online and continue to keep the forum up, as over the years costs have become very high.

Could you please allow adverts on this domain by switching it off. Some of the advert banners can actually be closed to avoid interferance of your experience on The Shed End.

Cheers now!

emma watson yes GIF

Alright already, It's off!