Are we 10 players short ?

[coco]

On radio 5 atm they are discussing squad strengths, basically they all agree that Le Arse and Spuds have the best squads of 25 players, but Chelsea have the best 15 player squad (team+ subs), so when we loose a player from that 15 we are in trouble as the quality is not there to replace them.

Whilst I dont totally agree, (especially during this baron spell), I do think there is some truth in it.

Thoughts ?

[Tim W]

Yes our squad is extremely thin on the ground especially if the likes of Sturridge, Bruma, Mceachran, Kakuta, are not considered good enough for more than 10 minutes.

[dkw]

The shift in the clubs player policy needs to be taken into consideration though. I dont know who decided it but its obvious that we are now trying to promote from within, bring youth through and the only way to do it is if their is space in the squad to do that. Getting rid of high earning elder players in the summer has allowed players like Kakuta, McEachran etc to get game time they wouldnt have gotten in the last few years at Chelsea. If it carries on then I for one will be happy to see us have a season without trophies, though ive a feeling I might be a little lonely in thinking that.

[Tim W]

Not at all I couldn't careless about winning silverware. A football club should have a youth policy and support the community, obviously being a major club we also have to look further a field. However, they also need to play for more more than just a few minutes towards the end of the game. Let's hope Tuesday night is an occasion when a few get a starting berth.

[TheWestwayWonder]

16 outfield players, excluding Sturridge. To me that is not enough when the average age of these players is about 28. We lost Deco, Belletti, Carvalho, Ballack and Joe during the summer, and picked up Benayoun.

I have been all for promoting youth, too, especially in recent seasons. But to me, their exception from the 25 man rule allows them to be brought in and out. We have taken an all or nothing approach to blooding youth in. We have gone from nothing, to all. IMO its not by design, but injuries have meant we have been left short. We are now down to 13 experienced outfield players, and Essien is still out for another game. To me, it just seems shortsighted from the club that they never thought this could possibly happen. I didnt want to see players like David Luiz (expensive, "world class" types) because it wasnt in a position where we were weak.

If we had've gone with 18-19 experienced players, we would still have plenty of windows for the youngsters to come through, especially in games we are dominating. To me, it was was never a matter of having too many players in the squad preventing youth from coming through, it was just not using them in games. Carlo is just the man to put that right, and IMO the approach to the Carling Cup was just right, even if we did go out.

I know this sounds hypocritical coming from me. But because of the injuries, the youth who we were all excited about have been thrown in at the deepend. Yes, its good they are getting their chance. But I hope the pressure of HAVING to step up at a rough patch for Chelsea could very well break some of them. Now that I have had a whinge I feel better.

[coco]

Totally agree ww, I think were 3-4 players short of having a squad that can cope with 3-4 injuries.

[cfckeane]

I think that we may be a few players short, but the main reason for our sudden reliance on youth may not be solely because of Ancelotti. These new UEFA rules that are being brought in regarding financial limitation could be behind it. Abramovich hasn't made it a secret that he doesn't want to invest in any more big name marquee signings, and this is probably a mixture of the economy, and UEFA.

At a vague estimate, we can safely say that Ballack, Deco and Carvalho were all on around £100,000 a week. Joe and Belletti probably £60,000. Using our youngsters who are probably on around £5,000 each (minus Sturridge) definately would look good on paper, and would allow them the chance to develop.

I just think that nobody expected our squad to be down to it's bare bones as early as the Christmas period, especially when you look at Lampard's fitness record. Also some of the form of our players towards the end of last season probably didn't help the argument that we may have needed strengthening.

I agree with dkw, in that I'd be quite happy to have a season without trophies if it meant we saw some real positive growth from our youngsters.

In a team playing poorly and with no real leader (no offence to Drogba, but he isn't the same as a Terry), brining in youngsters would be a baptism of fire, and would get way too many people on their back. We've seen first hand what can happen if a youngster comes on at the right time and does well (McEachran), who is playing with confidence when he come's in, as he know he has the support of the masses.

Basically, our injury ravaged squad doesn't look as good on paper as perhaps the others, but we do have quality in our midsts, and I think everyone jumping on the band wagon because the squad is under pressure.

A couple of losses picked up is not the end of the world, but the players are now playing with a lot of pressure on their backs, and with a combination of some better luck and similar performances as of Birmingham at the weekend we'll be ok this season.

[TheWestwayWonder]

Keane, you are certainly right about big earners and the UEFA rules, but going forward that needs to be a watchword for any future signings by the club. The club are now getting successful enough that the lure of trophies can entice players more than money, like the advantage the historically great teams around the world enjoy.

But I highly doubt its just down to wages alone. Look at the size and pay of man city's squad. Look at the size of Tottenham's or Man Utds. We have a very large wage bill, but for sheer numbers they must be very close to us.

Totally agree ww, I think were 3-4 players short of having a squad that can cope with 3-4 injuries.

At first I had to reread to make sure you werent taking the mickey out of me, but I agree

Losing 5 experienced players and replacing them with one is a pretty large shift in squad size. This raft of injuries couldnt quite be foreseen, but it now means we are gonna have to throw the youngsters into the fire, at a time when the squad are not playing well and the fans are restless. There are better ways to bring them in.

I am afraid now and in future seasons, 3-4 big injuries are going to be a lot more common among our core players.

[abramovich]

I was thinking about it a lot lately, especially in light of our current struggles.

Truth is, if we want to continue to remain competitive and one of the dominating forces both in England and Europe, at some point in the near future Roman will have to open up his wallet and spend a significant amount on improving our squad.

In 2003-2005 period we've spent a huge amount of money assembling one of the best squads in the world and proceeded to win a bunch of domestic trophies and came very close to win the CL on a few occasions. We're still living off of the same investment and our recent double is is a testament to that. But it's no secret that our best players are in their 30s and the signs of wear and tear have been showing for some time now.

Our squad of five years ago was in its top condition, with majority of the players either in their prime or several years before their peak. We've had an assortment of individual talent and depth in every position which allowed the club to compete on all fronts and keep winning.

What we've got now is very different. Roman has spent quite modestly for some time now, trying to switch focus to developing youth. In general, it's the right way of going forward but the trouble with concentrating on bringing through your own young talent is that there are no guarantees when this investment will pay off in terms of making an impact in your main squad.

I watched England vs Germany Under 21 friendly last week and was pleasantly surprised to see how many of our youngsters represent the country at this age category. Yet it was also once again apparent that none of those kids would have a realistic chance of ever making it at Chelsea, they're just not that great, let's be honest about it. Their German peers were on another level, it was men against boys.

There aren't that many players out there that can improve what we have and in the right age,let alone available but if money's there we can, and should make it happen. I think Schweinsteiger would have been a brilliant acquisition and would solve a lot of our problems in the middle, especially with Frank getting on in years and starting to struggle with injuries. A quality backup for Cech is a must, why are we still relying on the likes of Turnbull is puzzling. A young "power forward"in the Drogba mould would be a nice addition, Lukaku or someone similar may fit the bill. Neymar is still a possibility and his style would complement the big man upfront.

We have been missing a true playmaker type of a player since Zola times and it would have been nice if we could lure someone like Ganso or Pastore. Josh is obviously another option and if he continues to improve we may not need to spend to fill that area.

[icecoolguy22]

Reading the other thread, apparently Essien is injured as well, so even he wasn't suspended, he would be side lined anyway. The rate our players going down this season, we definitely need another 3-5 players there. I'm not sure is a Chelsea thing or not, but our players are getting injured way too often, maybe they do kick boxing to each other in training?

[Ziggy Springsteen]

The shift in the clubs player policy needs to be taken into consideration though. I dont know who decided it but its obvious that we are now trying to promote from within, bring youth through and the only way to do it is if their is space in the squad to do that. Getting rid of high earning elder players in the summer has allowed players like Kakuta, McEachran etc to get game time they wouldnt have gotten in the last few years at Chelsea. If it carries on then I for one will be happy to see us have a season without trophies, though ive a feeling I might be a little lonely in thinking that.

Honestly I agree, we won the double last year while I would love to again we have to acknowledge that our squad is probably cresting the hill. In this regards tommorow's performance will be a good test of the youngsters and good experience, if they get used to playing good football at the bridge I'd say we have a very good chance of not needing to rely on big name signings year on year out to maintain our position at the top of English football. Mind you we are still top of the Table so if we get through this spell I'd say our title chances are as good as Man Ure's or the Arse's for that matter, hell Arsenal have been losing without as big injury probelms as us and Man Ure without an on form Roone are decidedly underwhelming (they still haven't been beet yet that being said).

[Planet Drogba]

^ Man U still has yet to face a challenge other than Man City away. And no, Liverpool at home doesn't count. Just look at their dismal away record.

[BigIzz]

Interesting question. Assuming everyone is healthy Chelsea 16-25 is probably Ramires, Ferreira, Sturridge, Bruma, Kakuta, McEachran, van Aanholt and then either backup keepers or youth players.

Spurs 16-25 would include guys like David Bentley, Keane, Gallas, dos Santos, Corluka, O'Hara, Sandro

Arsenal have Vela, Ramsey, Bendtner, Gibbs, Djourou, Eboue, Denilson and either Koscienly or Squallici (not sure which is the preferred choice)

[TheWestwayWonder]

Interesting question. Assuming everyone is healthy Chelsea 16-25 is probably Ramires, Ferreira, Sturridge, Bruma, Kakuta, McEachran, van Aanholt and then either backup keepers or youth players.

Spurs 16-25 would include guys like David Bentley, Keane, Gallas, dos Santos, Corluka, O'Hara, Sandro

Arsenal have Vela, Ramsey, Bendtner, Gibbs, Djourou, Eboue, Denilson and either Koscienly or Squallici (not sure which is the preferred choice)

That is a much better way of comparing things.

Some of them read like a list of flops and rejects but they are all players with some kind of experience to call upon in the Premiership.

Even with 2-4 more on the squad, chances would still fall to the youngsters. If the wage bill is the major concern, then the club needs to be more conservative with the salaries they hand out in future.

[ozboy]

I agree with Abramovitch's post 100%. Chelsea have been underinvesting for years. It was only a question of when and not if it was going to catch up.

Although the timing of the injuries couldn't be predicted, the fact that the first team would go through an injury crisis at some point was very predictable. Estpecially as it ages.

Everyone's in favour of the youth policy. Nothing is more exciting than seeing some home grown, or even imported young player turn int an instant star. The reality is that most of them don't. And even the ones that do, even the Ronaldo's of this world take a few years to get there.

So there has always been a choice of winning comps by spending lots of money every season, in a sensible way, and blooding say one youngster, or taking the longer and less certain road of playing a mix of fading stars with not quite ready yet youngsters and going through a 3 year rebuilding pattern. We might win something that way but its less likely.

Of course maybe this is just pessimism considering recent results, but I've thought for years that we have underspent in transfer season and was actually surprised at how well we did last year. I was hoping Ramires would be instantly at a higher level, but like everyone else I guess he's having to to find his feet.

[MHL_blue]

The shift in the clubs player policy needs to be taken into consideration though. I dont know who decided it but its obvious that we are now trying to promote from within, bring youth through and the only way to do it is if their is space in the squad to do that. Getting rid of high earning elder players in the summer has allowed players like Kakuta, McEachran etc to get game time they wouldnt have gotten in the last few years at Chelsea. If it carries on then I for one will be happy to see us have a season without trophies, though ive a feeling I might be a little lonely in thinking that.

You're not alone dkw. Though a season without trophies will cause all the plastics to come out and call for Carlo's head, I would much rather have a couple of seasons without trophies and a healthy economy than spending silly money like Real Madrid. I know the recent years sucsess has made us Chelsea supporters somewhat spoilt and that spur very unrealistic expectations amongst some. Don't get me wrong, I suffer just as much as everyone else when we loose or see the mancs lift a trophy, but I'm very happy with our policy at the moment bringing youth through the ranks.

Edited November 23, 2010 by MHL_blue

[sdsdsdsd]

You're not alone dkw. Though a season without trophies will cause all the plastics to come out and call for Carlo's head, I would much rather have a couple of seasons without trophies and a healthy economy than spending silly money like Real Madrid. I know the recent years sucsess has made us Chelsea supporters somewhat spoilt and that spur very unrealistic expectations amongst some. Don't get me wrong, I suffer just as much as everyone else when we loose or see the mancs lift a trophy, but I'm very happy with our policy at the moment bringing youth through the ranks.

I get the youth optimism, however lets face it, our club is not Barcalona or Ajax. Apart from Terry our youth academy has not produced much other world class footballers. Not that im against the youth movement, its just I don't think we should solely focus on youth and neglect good transfer opportunities, such as VDV who was apparently offered to us first and who we could have gotten for 10mil

[dkw]

I get the youth optimism, however lets face it, our club is not Barcalona or Ajax. Apart from Terry our youth academy has not produced much other world class footballers. Not that im against the youth movement, its just I don't think we should solely focus on youth and neglect good transfer opportunities, such as VDV who was apparently offered to us first and who we could have gotten for 10mil

Mainly because for many years our academy was grossly ignored, we arent them clubs yet because we have had to start all over again. Roman has spent a hell of a lot of money building an academy and bringing in coaches to make our youth set up as good as any out their, and we are only now beginning to see the players come through. I have no doubt in the next 4 or 5 years we will see more and more young players with the chance to make it come through.

[MHL_blue]

I get the youth optimism, however lets face it, our club is not Barcalona or Ajax. Apart from Terry our youth academy has not produced much other world class footballers. Not that im against the youth movement, its just I don't think we should solely focus on youth and neglect good transfer opportunities, such as VDV who was apparently offered to us first and who we could have gotten for 10mil

I see you point on VDV, I think even Arsene would agree on that.. I agree that we're not Barcelona or Ajax either, and it's no secret we've not been able to get the best out of our yount in the past. I don't think we'll be reaping the benefits this season, although McEchran is probably one of the most exciting talents I've seen for quite a while. However I think we need to have a long term vision about developing our own players. We also need a good ballance between youth and good transfer opportunities as you say, but I'm glad to see the back of crazy spending days and flogging £300 million on the table for a big name.

[coco]

Mainly because for many years our academy was grossly ignored, we arent them clubs yet because we have had to start all over again. Roman has spent a hell of a lot of money building an academy and bringing in coaches to make our youth set up as good as any out their, and we are only now beginning to see the players come through. I have no doubt in the next 4 or 5 years we will see more and more young players with the chance to make it come through.

Your right, he has, and we all agreed it was the right way to go forward, but only if the right players are selected for the academy, so far not one player has come through with a regular chance of making the first team, every weekend the team sheets come out, and suprise suprise, no starting places for the youth.

Bruma should of played ahead of Ferreira on Saturday, thats just the latest example that our youth are either not good enough, or Carlo is scared to use them.

[Chippy]

Strange they never compared Man Citys squad against the other three, I'd have said they were right up there on depth.

Its alll going to be down to keeping players fit once we get the majority back and using them inteligently to help do so, I think easing the Young Midfielders in beside a Lampard or Essien or players like Bruma beside Terry will be a lot less risky than when we are forced to do it in makeshift Mids/Defences.

I hope Carlo starts to rest players to ease them in on days when the spine of the team is fit or at least give them longer on the field as Subs.

Hopefully that would benefit us in keeping players like JT Alex and Essien sharp while bringing the likes of Bruma, Mceachran and Van Aanholt along nicely...I'd like to see the same up front when we have a fully fit Drogba and can afford to rest Anelka or Kalou for Sturridge Borini or Kakuta.

It will be hard to challenge in the three competitions if we constantly play our best and most experienced first eleven I would think.

[sdsdsdsd]

Mainly because for many years our academy was grossly ignored, we arent them clubs yet because we have had to start all over again. Roman has spent a hell of a lot of money building an academy and bringing in coaches to make our youth set up as good as any out their, and we are only now beginning to see the players come through. I have no doubt in the next 4 or 5 years we will see more and more young players with the chance to make it come through.

Fair point, the way I see it, its a win - lose kinda situation. Its kind of hard developing a professional, high quality academy and at the same time bringing in new transfers. If we want to have our youth succeeding, then in my opinion they need to start or at worse get 1/2 of football on a regular basis. Maybe not McEachran yet cause he is 17, but if we are serious about guys such as Sturridge/Kakuta/Bruma/PVA they need to start getting a regular game over the likes of Ferreira/Kalou/Zhirkov. However in doing this, we have to expect more losses or maybe 1 or 2 trophyless seasons.

However if we spend of transfers, those transfers will require regular playing time, meaning our youth will be pushed further back. IMO, this is what is happening now, you can "develop" youth all you want, however if they don't receive REGULAR playing time, they wont succeed. At the moment we play mceachran/kakuta for a few cameo 10-15 spells, which IMO does nothing to stem their development.

[sizzler85]

I totally agree that we are short of 3-4 first team back up players . At the start of the season , never did this thought come across my mind because I was very happy about our younger players getting their chance with the first team . But sadly that has not happened for us to discuss about lack of depth in the squad .

I would rather see our team lose with the younger players . We have certainly not done enough justice to the young players like kakuta , sturridge , Bruma etc ., As we all agreed , 10-15 mins of playing time will not help . We have to be bold to start with them . The peak of the frustration is starting with Ferreira and Bruma being benched for the Sunderland game .. I would never have felt so disappointed ,if say Bruma had made a mistake .

I know some of our folks will be angry to see this example . But Alex Ferguson in their home games is willing to put in a right mix of young and senior players . Agreed that he has been there for so many years and his control over the club is something that can never be matched . But still Carlo can effectively do that and still win games .. Lets not play our full first XI for every game . We must start to shuffle players . We can use senior players as impact subs . We cannot achieve bigger things without taking risks . Someone say me , Is there a rationale behind playing ferreira ahead of Bosingwa in a crucial away game ?

We know that Kakuta is a real prodigy . Again what we can do is play him in a position to suit his strength and ask the other senior players to adjust their play . If we are 3-0 up after 60 mins , Carlo can very well play Kakuta behind the strikers to allow him more freedom or we can give him a free role . These young players need games to live up to their potential . I can't see our club losing them only for them to go on to become big players with another club .

Personally , I would like to see chelsea target a CB , Target man striker , attacking midfielder , right sided player/winger , good back up GK in the next 1 or 2 transfer windows .

[yorkleyblue]

I'm sorry, but I NEVER want to see my team lose.

EVER

kev

[54veteran]

I'm sorry, but I NEVER want to see my team lose.

EVER

kev

Most of our players are now either too old, or too young. Did somebody forget that you need 25 year olds as well?