I think the only form of "pressure" that has been put on a manager to play Torres has been a lack of alternative options made available.

 

I doubt there's ever been a discussion between Abrahmovic or the board and any manager regarding Torres' selection, personally think it's daft to consider it, but the media love a good conspiracy.

 

Torres has been selected (rightly or wrongly) when our managers have felt he's the best man available for the job. Jose will be no different.

Why would the manager feel that he would be the right man for the job when he was often selected over Drogba? (not in big games though)

Or when Sturridge sat on the bench for most of the time? (AVB aside)

When you have two strikers is that the Manager's problem or the board who handled the transfers?

Sure the Manager selects the players who play but it's a bit of a joke to say there is no pressure to play him when you have virtually zero other alternatives(specially November and October of last year).

Like I have said no manager in their right mind would be happy with such a situation even if their first choice striker was banging goals in - specially when we are talking large clubs like our own which play in a variety of competitions.

we had sturridge and torres as are only options for all of 4 months at the beginning of last season, the rest of the time he's been here he's had competition. I agree we shouldn't have gone into the season like that but we did spend big in the summer, and had rdm played sturridge more often it wouldnt have been a problem.

At the end of the day roman paid 50m for him, he would be a fool to not try to and make that investment work. Lukaku and sturridge didnt have systems designed for them and neither has torres. Theres probably special instructions given to try and get the best out of him, but that happens for most strikers.

I haven't once said that there is no pressure to play torres, im just not buying into the suggestion every manager has been subject to a play torres or else ultimatum, and jose will be no different.

For me its just total bs made up from the media to paint the russian as the bond villian. I think its telling when you hear someone like ray wilkins, who was sacked by abramovich, dispel a couple of myths saying roman had no influence on first team tactics including selection, and that torres was ancelotti's first choice signings.

Why would the manager feel that he would be the right man for the job when he was often selected over Drogba? (not in big games though)

Or when Sturridge sat on the bench for most of the time? (AVB aside)

 

 

Drogba wasn't fit to start the majority of matches in that season, and towards the end he was being rested for European matches.

Sturridge was a bit of a loose cannon, didn't contribute to the team nearly as much as Torres and his fitness played a part too.

Personally I would've selected Torres for the majority of those games too, there wasn't a better alternative in my opinion (nor the managers' apparently).

 

Yep our top scorer in the League was a loose cannon and didn't contribute to the team, I've read it all 

Isn't this thread about Lukaku, not whether Torres forces our manager to play him. 

 

Personally Lukaku showed at West Brom and in pre season he is our outstanding number one. By outstanding i mean he is way ahead of Ba and Torres. 

 

Mourinho, however much i dont believe it, said we might very well not win the league this year. But if we fail to acquire Rooney, Lukaku should start against Hull.

I'd have them in the order:

 

LUkaku

Torres

Ba

Yep our top scorer in the League was a loose cannon and didn't contribute to the team, I've read it all 

 

Definitely a loose cannon, you surely can't deny that...

 

Never said he didn't contribute to the team either, just that Torres did considerably more. That's arguably down to personal opinion, but that's how I saw it anyway.

Yep our top scorer in the League was a loose cannon and didn't contribute to the team, I've read it all 

Ironically, no manager wanted to play our top scorer in the league as central striker. We all know that we do not sell our best players, an argument used commonly in the Luiz section. Yet, Sturridge was sold. It's odd, one of these paradoxes like why Mikel is played by everyone. Make of this what you will but I feel that Sturridge seriously lacked in qualities managers like to see. Maybe his attitude or selfishness or anything else.

Jose won't repeat the same mistakes previous managers made with when dealing with Lukaku

 

Considering none of the managers managed to get Torres scoring and Sturridge has managed to score constantly with Bolton and now Liverpool it's obvious their fault for trusting a busted flash instead of a younger player who could have done a far more capable job. If you feel Torres contributed more than we can agree to disagree. When Sturridge has played he has contributed and even managed more goals in big matches than Torres

I dont think any manager has been forced to play torres.

Rafa played ba when he was available at nearly every opportunity.

rdm played drogba in all big games, and then had no option to play torres, when sturridge was injured at the start of last season.

Avb rotated between torres and drogba neither of which perfomed him, with the exception of drogba' performance against valencia.

Carlo rotated between the 2 aswell, but to be fair torres stock was sky high, we had only just signed him and we were chasing united after another poor November. At that point very few would have predicted the next 2 years.

Obviously there is a sub conscious pressure to play torres because of his price tag, the media bullsh*t about romans demands, and also the hope of return to top form, which would have improved the team so much it could have kept a couple of these managers in a job.

If torres had have hit the ground running and we won the title, carlo would have kept his job.

If torres rediscoved his form under avb, we would have at least put pressure on the 2 Manchester clubs and its likely avb would have been given time to continue his rebuilding.

Rdm was never romans choice but if sn on form torres was worth an extra 3 points in the champions league last season then he would have lasted longer.

Rafa was doomed regardless.

Mourinho is better than all of these managers and has shown he can be ruthless, just ask casillas! Torres will not play if he isnt performing.

 

 

Spot on!  All this talk about managers being forced to play Torres is a load of horse manure.

 

Mourinho will play the striker who performs best in training sessions.

 

Hopefully, he'll land Rooney who is head and shoulders above the current three.

If my memory serves me correctly, Sturridge wasn't injured for THAT much of the start of last season under RDM, I know he was injured when Robbie finally lost his patience with Torres and had to play Hazard against Juventus, but for much of the season before that I think Sturridge was available.

If my memory serves me correctly, Sturridge wasn't injured for THAT much of the start of last season under RDM, I know he was injured when Robbie finally lost his patience with Torres and had to play Hazard against Juventus, but for much of the season before that I think Sturridge was available.

 

               When RDM took over from AVB he relegated Sturridge to the bench.

 

               Apparently he did not regard him a team player nor a guy who would track back and help out in defence. 

 

               When RDM took over from AVB he relegated Sturridge to the bench.

 

               Apparently he did not regard him a team player nor a guy who would track back and help out in defence. 

 

 

I don't see why we'd want our striker to track back and defend anyway.

I guarantee if sturridge was still here he would be expected to defend from the front under Jose, and I also think he would have struggled to get starts because of that.

Jose prefers a player who can keep the ball and draw a foul instead of a player who constantly looses it, what good is all the tracking back and defending if our striker gets dispossessed constantly and never draws fouls. Ozil; Higuaín Ronaldo; Di Maria; Benzema aren't renown for their tracking back either. 

Edited August 13, 201312 yr by Las7

I understand if he wants Hazard and Mata to track back because you don't want the full back to get double teamed by the opposition winger and full back, but the striker is supposed to rarely venture far beyond half way, or what the hell are you going to do when you win the ball?

Jose won't make the same mistake on Lukaku which RdM made with Sturridge and wif Lukaku continues his development and plays constantly in the side he has all the attributes to be a consistent 20+ goals striker in the Premier League. Even now his presence leads to problems for opposition defenders,  he is not only imposing in terms of size and power but he is also pretty damn quick. He just needs to work on his technique; first touch; passing and awareness, take those attributes up a notch and he will become undefendable. 

Right now he is the best striker we've got so he should get plenty of games at the start of the season and he will need to take those chances and make himself first choice at the club. 

I understand if he wants Hazard and Mata to track back because you don't want the full back to get double teamed by the opposition winger and full back, but the striker is supposed to rarely venture far beyond half way, or what the hell are you going to do when you win the ball?

Its not so much tracking back, more defending from the front and pressuring the defenders, something drogba did fantastically but sturridge just allowed them to stroll past him.

Yep our top scorer in the League was a loose cannon and didn't contribute to the team, I've read it all 

 

Oh he contributed; I think the problem was always how much more he could have contributed had he been more of a team player and showed better decision making.

Jose prefers a player who can keep the ball and draw a foul instead of a player who constantly looses it, what good is all the tracking back and defending if our striker gets dispossessed constantly and never draws fouls. Ozil; Higuaín Ronaldo; Di Maria; Benzema aren't renown for their tracking back either. 

Di Maria works extremely hard at tracking back and defending in general actually, probably Madrid hardest worker to be honest seeing as he's covering a poor RB.

Edited August 13, 201312 yr by Remodez

Its not so much tracking back, more defending from the front and pressuring the defenders, something drogba did fantastically but sturridge just allowed them to stroll past him.

 

During AVB it was obvious that he was instructed to be the furthest forward player in case of a counter attack, the amount of times he was up top and the fact that he was not yelled that from AVB about tracking back leads me to believe this was the case. At Bolton and Liverpool he does his fair bit of pressuring and hustling - his problem has always been tracking back but that's not a problem when playing in his natural position.  

 

 

Oh he contributed; I think the problem was always how much more he could have contributed had he been more of a team player and showed better decision making.

 

He contributed far more when played than you give him credit for, you can't expect better decision making from a striker being played out on the wing. Stick Ba or Lukaku on the wing and decision making and contribution will suffer. He scored double digits in the League in limited amount of time at Pool, he has always scored a goal in under 170 minutes on the field - even when played out of position. As a striker he averages a goal at 110 minutes - tell me if that type of contribution is not enough and what exactly you are looking for.  

I don't want to comment on how he was used, but being played out of position with a naturally stronger left foot and an eye for goal he did the job - I fully expected him to do a lot better when played up top. This did not materialize at CFC but as expected and as I noted when he was sold he easily outscored Ba and Torres's combined tally in the next 6 months despite a few injury setbacks. 

 

 

 

He contributed far more when played than you give him credit for, you can't expect better decision making from a striker being played out on the wing. Stick Ba or Lukaku on the wing and decision making and contribution will suffer. He scored double digits in the League in limited amount of time at Pool, he has always scored a goal in under 170 minutes on the field - even when played out of position. As a striker he averages a goal at 110 minutes - tell me if that type of contribution is not enough and what exactly you are looking for.  

I don't want to comment on how he was used, but being played out of position with a naturally stronger left foot and an eye for goal he did the job - I fully expected him to do a lot better when played up top. This did not materialize at CFC but as expected and as I noted when he was sold he easily outscored Ba and Torres's combined tally in the next 6 months despite a few injury setbacks. 

 

My point was how much better he could have been and that point remains for me, no matter how many minutes/goal statistics you throw at me it doesn't change what i saw with my own eyes.

 

He deserves credit, don't get me wrong, when he was good he was very good and his goal scoring record can't be argued with but that doens't mean he was faultless and I personally thought his faults were very clear to see.

 

His decision making was terrible at times, I know you won't have it as you clearly rate him very, very highly but I can remember watching him slam the ball into the side netting from ridiculous angles on numerous occasions within the same game when there was an oppertunity for a square ball and an almsot certian goal for a team mate. The look of bemusement on the face of his team mates at times said it all and this was the same reason that the 10,000 in the Matthew Harding collectively groaned at his repeated attempts on goal- he became very predictable and very frustrating to watch.

My point was how much better he could have been and that point remains for me, no matter how many minutes/goal statistics you throw at me it doesn't change what i saw with my own eyes.

 

He deserves credit, don't get me wrong, when he was good he was very good and his goal scoring record can't be argued with but that doens't mean he was faultless and I personally thought his faults were very clear to see.

 

His decision making was terrible at times, I know you won't have it as you clearly rate him very, very highly but I can remember watching him slam the ball into the side netting from ridiculous angles on numerous occasions within the same game when there was an oppertunity for a square ball and an almsot certian goal for a team mate. The look of bemusement on the face of his team mates at times said it all and this was the same reason that the 10,000 in the Matthew Harding collectively groaned at his repeated attempts on goal- he became very predictable and very frustrating to watch.

 

How much better could he have been as a wide player - track back? defend? square balls? 

He did a good job when he played on the wing let me throw a parallel to you - Welbeck, played a similar amount of matches on the wing for United last season managed 2 goals and 1 assist. Welbeck tracked back; defended; squared the ball but simply put he was ineffectual there and he regressed as opposed to actually improving. Now this stint might prove beneficial to Welbeck in the future but I highly doubt if he has another season on the wing and doesn't improve he will remain at United for too long. When he is signed by a lesser club I expect him to play in his natural position. 

The thing that bugged me is that Sturridge was our best option last season yet RdM did not opt to use him at all with the exception of one match for which Torres was banned. 

 

When we were under AVB we were very static, created very few chances, Kalou and Malouda weren't very effective when played and our strikers had forgotten how to score - some how all the negatives were directed to Sturridge because he didn't square it to the strikers a fair few times but there were obviously far more ingrained issues with the squad which were addressed slowly with the arrival of Hazard and Oscar. It's not his fault that our strikers weren't able to create their own chances at the time and the midfield was slow and unimaginative. Also not his fault we didn't have a natural wide player at the time to play in that wide position. 

 

I'm amused how many games he got up top for us(I think 5 at most), considering his record and attributes - Sturridge will be a 20 goal striker in the League as long as he keeps himself injury free. I was looking forward to Lukaku and Sturridge becoming a deadly duo for the next decade but I guess we will have to settle for "just" the Kraken

Obviously you rate Sturridge very highly, and I don't deny he's a good player, but I really don't think he was ever a great option for us as our striker.

Torres may not have been scoring, but he was certainly working harder for the team, looking to link up with our midfield, dragging defenders out of position to open up space for our midfield.

Last season we adapted our attacking to suit that style of play from Torres, with our midfielders being the 'end point' to an attack, and it worked. We didn't have a problem finding the net last season. Ideally Torres would've taken more of the chances that fell to him, and his general hold up play is far from perfect (let's face it, we were spoilt rotten with Drogba), but he did offer far more than I ever see Sturridge offering in that same role.

Sturridge will score more at Liverpool, simply because their attacking play is catered more towards strikers finishing the move off.

 

Also note I'm not sitting here singing Torres' praises either, I'm just as excited to see Lukaku in that role, as I feel he's got the work-rate and attitude to offer what Torres already does, and that physical presence and composure in front of goal to offer more.

Obviously you rate Sturridge very highly, and I don't deny he's a good player, but I really don't think he was ever a great option for us as our striker.

Torres may not have been scoring, but he was certainly working harder for the team, looking to link up with our midfield, dragging defenders out of position to open up space for our midfield.

Last season we adapted our attacking to suit that style of play from Torres, with our midfielders being the 'end point' to an attack, and it worked. We didn't have a problem finding the net last season. Ideally Torres would've taken more of the chances that fell to him, and his general hold up play is far from perfect (let's face it, we were spoilt rotten with Drogba), but he did offer far more than I ever see Sturridge offering in that same role.

Sturridge will score more at Liverpool, simply because their attacking play is catered more towards strikers finishing the move off.

 

Also note I'm not sitting here singing Torres' praises either, I'm just as excited to see Lukaku in that role, as I feel he's got the work-rate and attitude to offer what Torres already does, and that physical presence and composure in front of goal to offer more.

 

Sturridge has a higher pass success rate and his hold up play and movement is superior to Torres, Torres looses possession around 5 times per match on average and his passing success is around 70%. No offense but as far as holding the ball up is concerned Torres is average at best; working harder would depend on the occasion he can be arsed to work hard certain games others he goes into invisible mode and the second option is far more prevalent.

 

We did have problems finding the net last season, there were plenty of games where Torres taking his chances would have meant we were ran away victories instead of draws or close games which were nerve racking. He played 22 FULL 90 Minute games a total of 2572 minutes in the Premier League alone and scored 8 goals - a goal every 321 minutes he was on the field for us, that's THREE AND A HALF full matches.

We had 25 matches that we either Won; Drew or Lost with a ONE GOAL MARGIN a striker that actually takes a shot or finishes one of the chances he creates for himself might have not only put us in contention for the title last season but it might have made us Champions. Because even games that were won by a ONE GOAL MARGIN are usually down the the wire and players like Mata; Hazard can not be subbed off for some rest for future matches. If he had done the job for which he was signed - putting the ball in the back of the net we would not have had to battle for the last spot in the CL but instead would have been in our rightful spot over the last decade as challengers - the rest of the squad was more than capable. 

 

Please watch Sturridge against US or Manchester City and tell me when, WHEN HAS TORRES PRODUCED PERFORMANCES LIKE THOSE?

 

 

Lukaku's time and thread anyway, sorry for derailing this thread, we've wasted enough time on the biggest flop of the English Premier League and his awesome hold up play and work ethic

Edited August 13, 201312 yr by Las7