get on with having an opinion that you can understand is not necessarily fact?

 

ah, football. 

 

what opinion have i shared that i have stated is fact? 

 

now, if you wish to say that i have tried to prove why i believe my opinion to be correct, then that is fine. but no opinion is fact fait accompli (although it can be fun debating them anyway).  

ah, football. 

 

what opinion have i shared that i have stated is fact? 

 

now, if you wish to say that i have tried to prove why i believe my opinion to be correct, then that is fine. but no opinion is fact fait accompli (although it can be fun debating them anyway).  

 

 

For instance the backing up of Ferreiras lack of crossing ability with his stats for assists, yes you can say you were backing up your argument which is fine but the opposite argument for me would be just as strong if it said " Paulo was a great crosser but for some reason the strikers just never got in the right positions" or "the manager told him not to get forward" or "his boots were too big" its all opinions and statistics although you feel might back up your argument can not be expected to change the way people perceive things.

 

The last part of your post is how it should be but the fun can be taken out of these debates as we have seen.

For instance the backing up of Ferreiras lack of crossing ability with his stats for assists, yes you can say you were backing up your argument which is fine but the opposite argument for me would be just as strong if it said " Paulo was a great crosser but for some reason the strikers just never got in the right positions" or "the manager told him not to get forward" or "his boots were too big" its all opinions and statistics although you feel might back up your argument can not be expected to change the way people perceive things.

 

The last part of your post is how it should be but the fun can be taken out of these debates as we have seen.

I couldnt be bothered to show my reasoning behind the crossing thing, but the stats are meaningless. He played full back in a very defensive side that didnt allow them to barely cross the halfway line. The fact he didnt make many crosses doesnt mean he wasnt good at them, just didnt do as many as others. For instance, the best free kick and corner taker I ever played with was a goalkeeper, his dead balls were unbelievable in training and when he was let loose once every so often in a game. Now his stats compared to everyone else would be piss poor, because of lack of attempts. But he was easily the best one I ever saw.

For instance the backing up of Ferreiras lack of crossing ability with his stats for assists,

 

i did not say that he had a "lack of crossing ability". probably best not to misrepresent my opinion if you are attacking it. 

 

he was a pretty good crosser of the ball from deeper positions. 

 

however, if your opinion is that he was "consistently the best crosser of the ball at the club during his time here" then it seems fair to bring up the other players who were good crossers of the ball (that there were others who could cross the ball well is a fact), the fact that he didn't get many assists despite playing with the best header of the ball in world football (another fact). 

 

tbh if he was such an amazing crosser of the ball, i find it unlikely that his managers would put him in a situation where he could never show it, that would be poor management. 

 

dkw is the one who refused to provide any reasoning behind his opinion in that instance. again, just look at the posts. 

I couldnt be bothered to show my reasoning behind the crossing thing, but the stats are meaningless. He played full back in a very defensive side that didnt allow them to barely cross the halfway line. The fact he didnt make many crosses doesnt mean he wasnt good at them, just didnt do as many as others. For instance, the best free kick and corner taker I ever played with was a goalkeeper, his dead balls were unbelievable in training and when he was let loose once every so often in a game. Now his stats compared to everyone else would be piss poor, because of lack of attempts. But he was easily the best one I ever saw.

 

I agree with what you're saying re. Ferreira, but I'd hardly call that an accurate assertion of our team back in 2005. Rather we focused on getting our full-backs forward to support the attacking players. Our wide men became very good at drawing opposing full-backs infield which allowed our own full-backs to pick out a cross. 

i did not say that he had a "lack of crossing ability". probably best not to misrepresent my opinion if you are attacking it. 

 

he was a pretty good crosser of the ball from deeper positions. 

 

however, if your opinion is that he was "consistently the best crosser of the ball at the club during his time here" then it seems fair to bring up the other players who were good crossers of the ball (that there were others who could cross the ball well is a fact), the fact that he didn't get many assists despite playing with the best header of the ball in world football (another fact). 

 

tbh if he was such an amazing crosser of the ball, i find it unlikely that his managers would put him in a situation where he could never show it, that would be poor management. 

 

dkw is the one who refused to provide any reasoning behind his opinion in that instance. again, just look at the posts. 

 

 

Have you got some sort of persecution complex?

 

I didn't attack your opinion and wasn't aware that I had misrepresented it...you just can't calm down can you? I used the Ferriera crossing thing as a rough pointer as to why the argument can't be black and white, why there can be no difinitive outcome and why stats or lists of who you think was a better crosser are meaningless and why if people feel Paulo was a good crosser, people who watched him many times then they are as entitled to that opinion as you are to yours...I never even made gave an opinion either way let alone attacked yours.

 

Settle down a bit there really is no need to be so argumentative.

 

 

Just to add (and again this isn't to say I think or don't think Paulo was the Beckham of the RB position), why is it unlikely to have a good crosser of the ball at RB but put him in a position where he couldn't show it when you compare it to Ivan who is not in my opinion a great crosser of the ball but Jose gives him plenty of opportunity to do just that...not bad management surely?

Edited January 10, 201412 yr by Chippy

Have you got some sort of persecution complex?

 

I didn't attack your opinion and wasn't aware that I had misrepresented it...

 

no. 

 

and: well, you did. learn to read. 

 

 

I used the Ferriera crossing thing as a rough pointer as to why the argument can't be black and white,

 

i did not say the argument has to be black and white. 

 

however, as an example of "opinions stated as facts" as opposed to "trying to prove why i believe my opinion to be correct" then you are criticising the wrong poster...i did actually present arguments (whether you agree with them or not) whereas as dkw was the one who refused to engage and simply repeated his opinion over and over again. 

no. 

 

and: well, you did. learn to read. 

 

 

i did not say the argument has to be black and white. 

 

however, as an example of "opinions stated as facts" as opposed to "trying to prove why i believe my opinion to be correct" then you are criticising the wrong poster...i did actually present arguments (whether you agree with them or not) whereas as dkw was the one who refused to engage and simply repeated his opinion over and over again. 

 

 

I am not critiicsing your opinion, couldn't care less about it...all I'm doing is criticising your attitude.

 

I fully understand the reasons behind anyone refusing to engage with you because they don't want to be involved in a constant rehash of posts when if fact there can be no answer and both parties opinions will stay the same throughout and likely ever after.

 

I learned to read by the way but that didn't make me want to read through all the arguing on this thread, I came in purely because it frustrates me to see this forum going downhill and petty arguments springing up all over the place.

 

It would be nice if you could just offer an opinion without the prissyness and insults, maybe a friendly debate would have the legs that you obviously want instead of people just repeating their opinion and watching you quote and re quote.

 

I'm not trying to come in and give an opinion on who is right or wrong as there is no answer, just think you should wind your neck in a little bit and get on with people.

 

 

If you said to DKW "I don't agree mate, I think Paulo was an average crosser, your point would have been made in the one sentence.

 

My opinion on Paulo although nothing to do with why I commented is a mix of both, I'd agree with you that he was a consistent 7 out of 10 and I'd take a 7 out of 10 performance from a RB across a season gladly, about what we get out of Ivan or Dave I'd say. crossing wise I'd say Paulo maybe the best of the three.

What is all these?

I am not critiicsing your opinion, couldn't care less about it...all I'm doing is criticising your attitude.

 

and misrepresenting my opinion. which was what i criticised you for. more proof, if proof was needed, that you aren't actually reading my posts, just coming on here to slag me off cos you are still burthurt about a months old argument that i can barely remember. 

 

 

I fully understand the reasons behind anyone refusing to engage with you

 

well, don't criticise me for it when the other guy is the one doing it. 

 

 

If you said to DKW "I don't agree mate, I think Paulo was an average crosser, your point would have been made in the one sentence.

 

how about if his responses to me amounted to more than "absolute bollocks" and "more "absolute bollocks". do you think this thread would be in a better state without his attitude? because everything you are criticising me for is what others have done, not me. 

 

 

My opinion on Paulo although nothing to do with why I commented is a mix of both, I'd agree with you that he was a consistent 7 out of 10 and I'd take a 7 out of 10 performance from a RB across a season gladly, about what we get out of Ivan or Dave I'd say. 

 

well, seeing as how my opinion, which you agree with, resulted in a massive amount of personal abuse and posts like "absolute bollocks" and "more absolute bollocks" (feel free to go back and check who turned this thread into a childish off-topic slanging match or endlessly repeated their opinions over and over again while dishing out abuse), maybe, in this instance i wasn't the problem; no matter how much you would like that to have been the case (given how much of a bee in your bonnet you clearly still have about that months old argument that i still barely remember). 

You really are beyond bothering with, as I said its not about opinions or who agrees with who, for me its about your lack of any basic  interactive charm.

 

Yes people have come out and mentioned you talk bollox but that's as much down to your attitude as opinions, everyone knows what a long drawn out drama ensues when trying to debate with you.

 

I purely tried to explain my own view on your overly patronising (for want of a better word) style of posting and hoped you might take a step back and try to fit in like everyone else, obviously thats too much to ask and although I'm not worried about previous disagreements we've had, you like to bring them up and if that helps you feel good about yourself then that's your choice.

 

I remember it being another argument with no chance of a difinitive outcome and to be honest would have much preferred if you were right on that occasion.

 

Keep going the way you are and I'll leave my honest attempt to try to get you to lighten up a bit here, you can quote me and tell me I don't really mean that I just wanted you to be a bit more respectful to other posters and spend some more time feeling like your point is proved, I'll just do what most do on here and skip over your attempts to get under peoples skin.

Hes a sad idiot chippy and really not worth the key strokes. Hes showing himself up daily. <br /><br />Hopefully he gets banned soon or else takes the hint that noone likes him and f**ks off

You really are beyond bothering with, as I said its not about opinions or who agrees with who, for me its about your lack of any basic  interactive charm.

 

 

what's funny is that you even know that everything you are criticising me for is something others have done and not me. 

 

chippy: "you did this, and that's why i don't like you"

 

me: "actually...the other guy did that"

 

chippy: "well, that's ok, cos i don't like you, perfectly understandable, cos remember, i don't like you. i don't like you."

 

you have come into a football thread with no intention of talking about football, slagging me off for things i haven't done; this is the second, or maybe even third time you have done it; and why? cos you are still bothered about a petty argument that happened months ago in the immediate aftermath of a contentious match when passions were high, and i can barely remember it. you need to grow up. i don't have to pay rent just because you can't get me out of your head. seriously; grow up. 

i think we may have drifted off topic slightly...

i think we may have drifted off topic slightly...

 

It's the mikel thread so not surprising :P

Edited January 10, 201412 yr by Stim

what's funny is that you even know that everything you are criticising me for is something others have done and not me. 

 

chippy: "you did this, and that's why i don't like you"

 

me: "actually...the other guy did that"

 

chippy: "well, that's ok, cos i don't like you, perfectly understandable, cos remember, i don't like you. i don't like you."

 

you have come into a football thread with no intention of talking about football, slagging me off for things i haven't done; this is the second, or maybe even third time you have done it; and why? cos you are still bothered about a petty argument that happened months ago in the immediate aftermath of a contentious match when passions were high, and i can barely remember it. you need to grow up. i don't have to pay rent just because you can't get me out of your head. seriously; grow up. 

 

 

 

If thats what you want people to believe then good luck with it, I think most will know that a petty argument with no possible winner doesn't mean a thing to me, as you know we've debated since and the only other time we interacted was when you done the same thing to another member on here that you you've done this time and I asked you what you got oUt of it (don't quote me as I 'd hate for you to have to go and find the thread for a nice rehash) it was words to that effect.

 

I have nothing more to say really, I don't want to be the winner of any argument that has no possible outcome, my objective here was just to get you to be a bit more respectful, I know you can point to posts that make you look the innocent party but we both know you like to get under peoples skin and thats the reason you get the reactions you do.

 

I'm done here you carry on winding people up and be proud, come back and say its my faut because of an old argument, DKWs fault as hes a troll or Yorkleys fault for any number of reasons and everyone will think your being hard done by.

i think we may have drifted off topic slightly...

 

i apologise, but tbf a guy did come on to this thread with no intention of talking about football, just to slag me off. and now he will likely slag me off for not talking about football in his next post. 

I have nothing more to say really, 

 

you've had nothing to say at all. 

you've had nothing to say at all. 

Shame that's never your problem.

Shame that's never your problem.

Ha ha, you go girlfriend...oh no you di'nt...etc.

Chippy, put the prick on ignore - you're just wasting your time, he's a repetitive pedant who will just keep repeating the same crap ad nauseam!

Shame that's never your problem.

 

still desperate for the last word, huh? 

 

it must be pathological. 

 

meanwhile, more reasoned responses from the innocent parties who clearly had nothing to do with any issues on this thread. yes. "you go". "ignore the prick". etc. woo. 

Chippy, put the prick on ignore - you're just wasting your time, he's a repetitive pedant who will just keep repeating the same crap ad nauseam!

I have done mate, never even knew how to do that on all these years on the forum.

Chippy, put the prick on ignore - you're just wasting your time, he's a repetitive pedant who will just keep repeating the same crap ad nauseam!

 

 

Dicky, didn't your mother ever tell you not to enter into a battle of wits with an unarmed man?  If you argue with an idiot, they try to bring you down to their level, where they have much much more experience.

 

The bloke's a troll and a prick - just look at the username FFS!

 

 

I've had that townsend prick on ignore for ages - now you clowns start quoting his inane ranting all over the place - fair made me throw up my afternoon biscuits it has.

 

 

pop that one down as the very definition of unintentional irony. 

 

I have done mate, never even knew how to do that on all these years on the forum.

 

 

thank christ for that. you keep seeking me out to slag me off and won't shut up until you get the last word. hopefully that's done cos it's really boring. 

talkoftownsend I think you are being annoying and need to have a hard look at yourself.

C'mon mate, take a walk down the street, head to the pub and take a pint. Cool your nerves and stop these arguments.

And am being respectful, you can reply me with all ridiculous words but am out. Ciao. Au revoir!