Most people on the site have their own thoughts on whats not right so far during the second coming of Jose so I thought I'd
give people the chance to let us all know what their theory is.

I'll list some of the often used reasons for starters as well

I've heard all sorts but I'll put a few options out and if anyone replies maybe they can add thier own or embellish one of these.


1: Never come back

A manager should never go back and manage the same team for a second time, he will never have the same degree of success.

He will always feel pressure to out do his first stint in charge

He is not a long term manager by nature and shouldn't try to be as he is not a team builder

He has lost some of his swagger and is not the same manager as he was.

2: Play Juan Mata.

He wants Mata to defend, Mata is far too good going forward to be expected to change his game.

He doesn't rate Mata.

He rates Oscar as his number ten and Mata is not as good on the right or left as our other options.

He won't play Mata because the rotund one did.

He doesn't like Mata because he is too handsome. (I've heard this, honestly)

He wanted to do a deal with UTD but Abramovic wouldn't sanction Mata the other way so he won't play him.

3: know your best eleven

Jose doesn't know his best eleven.

He has no idea how good some of the players are even with an eye on Chelsea from afar since he left and the preseason.

He has issues with some of the young players, why not play Bertrand.

De Bruyne played well at Hull and has hardley had a sniff since.

4: The defence needs sorting.

 Ivan at RB?

Cahill preferred to Luiz.

Terry should play less.

Cole not good enough anymore.

5: Too many favourites

Untouchables like Oscar Terry, Lampard and Cole...I think we can leave Cole out of this one now.

6: Tactics

Slow build up play and too reliant on the out ball to Ivanovic

Asking skilled players to defend from the front and track back too much is blunting our attack.

Too much sideways passing and not enough penetration.

Players unsuited to the double pivot

playing unsuited players to a system instead of playing a system to suit the players.

 

Jose is at odds with himself between the Football hes agreed with Roman that he will have us play and the style he knows best.

7: Strikers

He let Lukaku out on loan.

He let Moses out on loan.

Shouldn't have brought in Eto'o.

Shouldn't be alienating Ba.

Should have got rid of Torres.

Should have got rid of Ba.

 

 

8: Not right? I think sitting where we are and still in all competitions is pretty decent with November almost out the way, ok the

Football has been a bit hit and miss but I'd expect nothing less with the agenda Jose's been given...I don't agree with everything but I'm confident he'll work it out.



If anyone looks through these reasons or has some they want to add, it would be good if you could give an opinion as to why
Jose would be doing whatever it is that you feel is the problem, i.e why would he prefer Ivan to Azpi?

 

Obviously I'm confused about some of the decisions but I'm with number eight.

Edited November 27, 201312 yr by Chippy

It's saddening that Oscar is having such a brilliant season and people just want to talk about Mata. Listing him as one of the too many favourites when he and Terry are the two who have shown they deserve their spots in the first 11.

 

The guy needs more credit. He is also only 22.

 

Anyway I like number 8 ofc. Mostly winning whilst still finding our feet is pretty acceptable.

 

A little patience that so many people preach about is required. Could be worse, we could have the chosen one.

Edited November 27, 201312 yr by Stim

No no no and no.

This isnt Jose's team. The only Jose player brought in was Eto'o the rest were board bought or here before.

The first time around Jose had a massive impact on the team, bringing in a number of players who he wanted and could count on.

This time is different, he doesnt have the final say on players anymore. This team has been built over a couple of seasons while constantly changing managers and systems and styles. The team as a whole is unbalanced. Strikers arent good enough, AM are over loaded, CM/DM are players that have been put there just to slot them into the team somewhere. Not the right players for that role. Defense is ok imo.

How can Jose be blamed for that?

As for not knowing the best 11, well its quite tough when a player like Oscar plays well one week and then doesnt offer anything the next game.

I dont blame Jose for the few bad results this season. Also people are forgetting that we arent that bad. We are joint 2nd on points in the league and we have already played most of the big teams. We are into the next round of all the cups. Correct me if im wrong but there isnt much more you could ask for.

 Correct me if im wrong but there isnt much more you could ask for.

 

I agree with a lot of your post but as you asked I will correct you on that last bit!

 

Supporters (and club owners) are always demanding so rarely will things be "good enough". On the whole I'm happy but as I said in the other thread - you can't bury your head in the sand and make out all is rosey after a diabolical display like last night. Sure we are still well placed in the league and in all the cups but that performance last night and the poor display against Newcastle and the lucky draw against WBA, does make me concerned.

 

The silver cloud is that we are not alone. No team is looking consistent enough to run away with the league and even in the CL, there have been some unexpected results.

 

The trouble Mourinho has is that expectations are high but knowing him (not personally!) he should be relishing that. Don't want to hear that this isn't his team or his players - he is recognised as one of the best coaches in the world and although our squad isn't well balanced, he is expected to get the quality he has at his disposal performing well and getting results. Hopefully, given time and learning from mistakes like last night, he will.

Edited November 27, 201312 yr by Nibs

I am worried for the team and Jose. We don't seem to have any style, directness, cohesion, ideas.

Our most creative player is on the bench and hasn't had a look in as of yet. I can't understand leaving Mata out so long, it seems like an egotistical issue with Jose.

He is supposed to be older, wiser, more of an all rounder.. yet he cant seem to adapt his coaching creatively to suit our players... we all know he's never played the most exciting football, but last night was simply criminal. No football fan should be subjected to that with the talent we have. As I said before I honestly wouldn't mind if we lost more games where we are fighting like warriors, at least its entertaining and something we can be proud of.

Chelsea fans everywhere love Jose, but this stubbornness will test loyalties soon if it keeps up.

I am worried for the team and Jose. We don't seem to have any style, directness, cohesion, ideas.

Our most creative player is on the bench and hasn't had a look in as of yet. I can't understand leaving Mata out so long, it seems like an egotistical issue with Jose.

He is supposed to be older, wiser, more of an all rounder.. yet he cant seem to adapt his coaching creatively to suit our players... we all know he's never played the most exciting football, but last night was simply criminal. No football fan should be subjected to that with the talent we have. As I said before I honestly wouldn't mind if we lost more games where we are fighting like warriors, at least its entertaining and something we can be proud of.

Chelsea fans everywhere love Jose, but this stubbornness will test loyalties soon if it keeps up.

 

I don't mean to highlight your post as if to argue it Zola, more really to try to get some idea of what you mean? You picked up loosely on one of my possible explanations that have been bandied about and I find it one of the more odd ones.

 

Why would Jose's ego mean he wouldn't play Mata? hopefully as its you and not some WUM I'll rule out Juans good looks so why else? if its because you feel that Jose won't play him because the Interim did, surely that would rule out everyone bar Eto'o and Willian

 

Jose wants to be a winner, hes always been a winner, what sort of ego would he have to not play a player through any reasons other than purely Football ones?

 

Cheers.

Edited November 27, 201312 yr by Chippy

The team as a whole is unbalanced. 

 

this. 

 

the team (& the squad) is unbalanced. the squad was put together by a guy who plays football manager rather than being one. 

 

can't keep on blaming the managers when they all have the same problems. 

 

jose has made mistakes, but he's also kept us within touching distance of the league leaders and kept us in the champions league and league cup. that's good enough. 

Absolutely mate

I think the '3 amigos' was coined so fondly by the press and it worked brilliantly in an attacking sense. Yes we leaked goals with it, but that hasn't really changed this year with them being effectively disbanded! I think Jose has come in and feels the need to change it for the sake of changing something, so that its not seen to be merely continuing on something that previous coaches have done, and he is going to do it 'his way'. Whilst I love the guy, he does have an element of narcissism about him.

Of course he sees Mata every day in training and should be trusted to make the right call. I just cant fathom how he can be shut out so emphatically. I think its gone on for too long now...so much so that he could worried that if he brings in Mata and we instantly improve that he'll be slated for being stubborn, naive, slow to catch on etc.

To me it just screams personal pride.

this. 

 

the team (& the squad) is unbalanced. the squad was put together by a guy who plays football manager rather than being one. 

 

can't keep on blaming the managers when they all have the same problems. 

 

jose has made mistakes, but he's also kept us within touching distance of the league leaders and kept us in the champions league and league cup. that's good enough. 

 

 

I'd agree with that, the team looks unbalanced and its easy to sit one the sofa manager settee and think about the largely talented group of players and imagine there are a few options within the squad to help balance it.

 

The one that springs to mind for a bit more balance is for me playing Oscar where Frank usually starts and Mata in Oscars place, then Azpi to give us an attacking threat on the right side, I'd then either have Shuurle or Hazard stay wide a bit more.

 

I'm not sure that would give more balance but still wonder if Jose has tried something like it in training and its not been good or just is so sure Oscar is in his rightful place that he'll keep him there.

Of course he sees Mata every day in training and should be trusted to make the right call. I just cant fathom how he can be shut out so emphatically. I think its gone on for too long now...so much so that he could worried that if he brings in Mata and we instantly improve that he'll be slated for being stubborn, naive, slow to catch on etc.

To me it just screams personal pride.

 

tbh when he has started mata, he has been crap. 

 

mata's only genuinely good performance was the second half against spurs. he then started the next 3 games and was crap in 2 of them...so he got dropped again. 

 

oscar has shown more...although his form has tailed off a bit. wrong thread...but why should he keep playing mata when his direct competition is doing better than him? imo the mata story is an excuse to play into a media narrative..."has jose lost it? is it his ego?" no. he's not playing mata cos he's been crap.  

 I'd then either have Shuurle or Hazard stay wide a bit more.

 

i'd have schurrle in the team the whole time. not cos he's especially good...but because he's physical and he wins one on one duels...and he is literally our only player who attacks the ball in the box (apart from ba...who also never plays). imo that is one of jose's mistakes. 

tbh when he has started mata, he has been crap.

mata's only genuinely good performance was the second half against spurs. he then started the next 3 games and was crap in 2 of them...so he got dropped again.

oscar has shown more...although his form has tailed off a bit. wrong thread...but why should he keep playing mata when his direct competition is doing better than him? imo the mata story is an excuse to play into a media narrative..."has jose lost it? is it his ego?" no. he's not playing mata cos he's been crap.

Yes Mata hasn't been the same because Jose has taken his confidence and smashed it into pieces. He said from the get go 'Oscar is my number 10' and then effectively banished Mata.

No players are going to be on top of their game right away if they are sitting on the bench 95% of the time. He needs played to become good again and he needs played in the next game.

Edited November 27, 201312 yr by Zola

Absolutely mate

I think the '3 amigos' was coined so fondly by the press and it worked brilliantly in an attacking sense. Yes we leaked goals with it, but that hasn't really changed this year with them being effectively disbanded! I think Jose has come in and feels the need to change it for the sake of changing something, so that its not seen to be merely continuing on something that previous coaches have done, and he is going to do it 'his way'. Whilst I love the guy, he does have an element of narcissism about him.

Of course he sees Mata every day in training and should be trusted to make the right call. I just cant fathom how he can be shut out so emphatically. I think its gone on for too long now...so much so that he could worried that if he brings in Mata and we instantly improve that he'll be slated for being stubborn, naive, slow to catch on etc.

To me it just screams personal pride.

 

 

That would be strange for me as Jose could bring him in at pretty much any stage and if he performed well and the result went our way, once the told you so brigade had said we had started winning purely because of his inclusion it would soon come about that to be in the team he must have added something to his game and made the Manager happy, I think thats what he needs to do as Oscar if very consistent and although looks less a threat than we remember Mata being, he is adapting to the way the manager wants him to play.

 

I see where you're coming from but for me you're thinking too much into it and the fact that Jose has always said he is in his plans would make it very easy for him to pick him and say he feels hes ready now.

 

I don't think we have looked a better team with Juan in it when hes had chances although as I said, last night with a tired Oscar, I wanted to see him get a chance.

The balance of the squad is off, not necessarily in terms of numbers but (in my opinion) where the club have felt the need to invest the transfer kitty. 

 

This summer we spent roughly £50m on two attacking midfielders and recalled another from their loan, the area of the pitch it was widely accepted was one of our strengths.

 

We were lacking that cutting edge up front last year for the most part with the exception of a couple of glimmers from Torres and our answer was to ship out the free scoring youngster who showed he could handle the Premier League and instead pick up a 32 year old clearly lacking match fitness on a free.

 

Then with the central midfield we invest just £8m on an under 21 player and recall from loan Essien who before leaving on loan last season didn't look like he had the legs for the Premier League anymore.

 

So the point I am making is, was the signing of Willian a necessity when a strong case could be made that the £25-30m he cost could have been invested in either a midfielder who is capable of playing every week (which Essien and Lampard clearly aren't) or investing in a striker who wouldn't be a stop gap which Eto'o and Ba are feeling like.  

As for not knowing the best 11, well its quite tough when a player like Oscar plays well one week and then doesnt offer anything the next game.

 

That's where a manager should know when to play someone and when not, we have Mata and De Bruyne waiting for a chance yet Jose keeps stubbornly playing Oscar week in week out.

Yes Mata hasn't been the same because Jose has taken his confidence and smashed it into pieces. He said from the get go 'Oscar is my number 10' and then effectively banished Mata.

No players are going to be on top of their game right away if they are sitting on the bench 95% of the time. He needs played to become good again and he needs played in the next game.

 

meh...he started the villa game...our second game of the season...he was so crap he deserved to be benched. 

 

our next 2 games were utd and bayern...jose really couldn't risk a passenger in those games. he started the everton game...and again, he was so crap he deserved to be benched. he's given him chances...like after his goal in the arsenal game he put him straight into the team for newcastle...& he was crap. after he did well off the bench against spurs, he started 3 games on the spin...& was crap. 

 

i'm a big fan of juan as a footballer and a person, but he doesn't deserve to be in the team based on what he's shown on the pitch this season...especially when his direct competition has been in better form.  

He hasn't been granted the same freedoms as last year, that has to play a huge factor.

It's time Oscar had a rest week and Mata is given the full 90. If given a full game I believe he will rise to the challenge and will be a most positive influence.

That's where a manager should know when to play someone and when not, we have Mata and De Bruyne waiting for a chance yet Jose keeps stubbornly playing Oscar week in week out.

 

Except Oscar has been brilliant this season, and is one of the few who have a strong claim for the starting spot.

I prefer to look at it as we're joint second in the league, top of our CL group and we're largely playing like a shadow of our potential. When the pieces click into place and we start finding our natural rhythm we're going to be unstoppable.

Jose has to make do with the players bought and sold via the board, saying that he does have an impact in who he plays and more important HOW they play, (position, tactics etc)....  Far too often the ball is simply passed from one side of the pitch to the other till it is lost, I have seen it get as far as the opposite goal only to come all the way back, I don't know if the plan is to make them chase the ball and get exhausted but frankly this type of play is boring, this may also be the reason why certain sections of the crowd can be so quiet.

 

Even when were behind they seem lack urgency or the hunger to destroy the opponents, get 3 goals in the first half and watch the opponents heads go down and then you can get 8 like we did against Villa last season ...

 

At the Emirates for the Capital One cup we showed what was possible (and that was with a B team), the squad is big enough, the quality of the players is fantastic so what’s going wrong?

 

I for one would rather see a match of attack rather than just possession, it doesn’t matter if more goals are conceded as an exciting 3-3 match (i.e. Everton-Liverpool) is better than scraping a draw after a dodgy penalty.. End to end football is exciting; the crowd feel they get their moneys worth and it is better to watch than what sometimes looks like a lethargic kick around in the park.  As the saying goes 'the best form of defence is attack'

 

His latest excuse that they were tired is a joke, hasn't he heard of rotation??  or is that a word used to keep brilliant players out of the team.

 

Oh well, at least he didn't blame the supporters for not cheering enough this time!!!

Edited November 27, 201312 yr by Les666

I for one would rather see a match of attack rather than just possession, it doesn’t matter if more goals are conceded as an exciting 3-3 match (i.e. Everton-Liverpool) is better than scraping a draw after a dodgy penalty.. End to end football is exciting; the crowd feel they get their moneys worth and it is better to watch than what sometimes looks like a lethargic kick around in the park.  As the saying goes 'the best form of defence is attack'

 

You will never see Jose follow that approach because it's the kind of thinking that doesn't lead to titles. Great teams are built from the back, otherwise the first time you hit any kind of goal drought you just get rolled by every team that comes along.

Except Oscar has been brilliant this season, and is one of the few who have a strong claim for the starting spot.

 

I agree 100%, as to where we stand now Oscar deserves the starting spot the most but that's because he's the only one who's been given a chance,

You will never see Jose follow that approach because it's the kind of thinking that doesn't lead to titles. Great teams are built from the back, otherwise the first time you hit any kind of goal drought you just get rolled by every team that comes along.

 

That is the battle cry of the chronic counter-attacking team fan.

 

Look at the players we have, we should be solid as a brick and sambaing up front week in week out

 

*overstatement stop making dumb counterarguments.

I agree 100%, as to where we stand now Oscar deserves the starting spot the most but that's because he's the only one who's been given a chance,

 

The thing is Soulo you need to give the manager a bit of credit here, Mata has had chances and even if you feel on those occasions he's played well, you still don't know what Jose has asked him to do...you don't know if hes looked good to you but done little to follow the managers instructions and you don't know if he impresses in training, same wih Oscar, when you feel hes had a bad game, (last night was his only real bad one for me) you don't know if he has done everything Jose has asked of him in a defensive sense, the West Brom game people said he played badly but he was everywhere...did he choose to track back and defend to the detriment of his forward play or was it instructions?

 

I can easily see why Oscar gets picked time and again, the odd thing so far was last night when he Mata for me would have been the obvious choice to replace him in a rare bad game and the fact that Mata doesn't get to start where Willian did although again Wilian does the defensive work better.

firstly. the first jose tenancy was a sort of wonderland generally....secondly, most thought hed just walk in , and hey presto, wonderland part two....now it may be at some stage. the thing is its not just about jose, and our team......most other clubs have evolved too..arsenal have evolved the belief in themselves.....they go with the positive mindset and generally do well....were not perfect but not too crap either...3rd place isnt too bad....no one will  run away with the premiereship as so many teams are good...we still have a mishmash of players and positions..once he has gone to the jan sales and let people go aswell as join the jigsaw should be complete and then we ll see if jose and the boys can take the heat of a very tough premiereship, and an extreme european cup.....