As frustrating as it is, it takes time to build a squad that truly reflects the manager and the way he wants to play. Sadly I cant see Sarii being a bit flexiable till then.....and I dont see the board getting the players needed nor the quantity. Conte knew the limits of this squad and shouted it, now we have a better team but the limits well visible. He knew our fullback dont have the legs, thats why he played the likes of Alonso further ahead.

6 minutes ago, atomis said:

 As frustrating as it is, it takes time to build a squad that truly reflects the manager and the way he wants to play. Sadly I cant see Sarii being a bit flexiable till then.....and I dont see the board getting the players needed nor the quantity. 

Given we signed "his" player and broke the keeper record for him i would say it's so far so good on that score.

Maybe the problem all along is that they just didn't really trust Jose and Conte in the market.

Edited December 23, 20187 yr by Argo

The slow and ponderous football we play stems all the way from our backline to our attack. For all of Luiz' great, great long passing ability, he rarely if ever uses less than 4-5 touches on the ball. Rudiger is the same. Using one or two touches only in defence can be risky, but footballers are way to fit and organized in the modern game that you can dwell as much as our two centre backs. Azpilicueta and Alonso aren't particularly speedy on the ball either, perhaps especially the latter. This sets the tone for slow and tedious passing throughout our team.

Jorginho, for all his weaknesses and criticism, never uses more than two touches, mostly playing one touch before running to the next available position. He is however, due to his lack of mobility, dependent on movement around him, more on that in the next paragraph. For the other two midfield positions, Kante tries, but is still finding his feet. The Frenchman also tries to move the ball quickly, sometimes to quick for his technical ability (but that's better than not trying, especially in this system). Kovacic has good touch-and-go movement, but isn't particularly effective, which means he doesn't draw enough attention from the opposition. The third midfield spot, currently occupied by Kovacic, should be challenged by Loftus-Cheek, but he has had the same problems as the rest of the team; a lack of off the ball movement.

Our attack is about as stale as it gets, regardless of our composition. Giroud can't move, Morata moves but can't do anything with his movement, and Willian and Hazard either won't move or don't understand how to move without the ball. Hazard is one of our most gifted players, imo only behind Drogba in our history, but he really slows the tempo of the game down, allowing opponents to settle and swarm him. I understand his position, he's been a one man team for both club and country all his life, but for the free flowing passing style Sarri tries to implement to work, then he has to adapt his ways, giving away the ball much quicker. I don't really want to spend more time on Willian, he is what he is, and the club dropped the ball when we didn't sell him this summer. Pedro is actually a pretty good fit for this system, he's just not good enough to be a consistent starter. Morata is not good enough to start in a top side either, and I think Giroud as a starter is just geniunely pretty awful in the modern game.

I wrote after the Wolves game that Sarri is about to make the same mistakes as his predecessors, Conte and Mourinho, sticking to the experienced and trusted guard too long. We won the City game shortly after, which kind of killed my argument, but this is normal for these players. They have always been able to mobilize to these games, go full siege mode and all that. However, for us to consistently play a dominating style of football, which Sarri is trying to implement at the club, I believe we need to do something to the starting eleven.

Sarri points to the lack of mentality to stick to our plan, even if he fields a team with experienced players. Well, the players he fields are experienced in playing counter attacking football. It's therefore normal that they revert back to type when they don't find success with a pass-possession-oriented style. In my opinion, from my armchair, some of these players have about the same chance of playing and immersing themselves in Sarri-ball as I have the chance of becoming a professional football player (and I quit trying a looong time ago). Why not take a punt at some of the younger guys, who Sarri truly can form into his own players, rather than sticking with the usual, underperforming suspects?

 

For what it is worth, I am fully supportive of Sarri trying to implement a more dominant way of playing, but it is getting to the point where both he and the club needs to make a decision whether to try and change something or not. Our club has changed for the last 15 years, and so has modern football. We are not the underdogs anymore, we should go out on the pitch with the desire of dominating games. Liverpool and City trusted their managers to do the same to their clubs, and they are miles ahead of every other club in the Premiership only three years later (and will stay there). It's the same for Juventus, Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern, the consistent grand teams in Europe for the last 10 years.

24 minutes ago, opinionsarelike said:

For what it is worth, I am fully supportive of Sarri trying to implement a more dominant way of playing, but it is getting to the point where both he and the club needs to make a decision whether to try and change something or not. Our club has changed for the last 15 years, and so has modern football. We are not the underdogs anymore, we should go out on the pitch with the desire of dominating games. Liverpool and City trusted their managers to do the same to their clubs, and they are miles ahead of every other club in the Premiership only three years later (and will stay there). It's the same for Juventus, Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern, the consistent grand teams in Europe for the last 10 years.

I think you have made good points above and especially considering the short tenure of managers whether the board will sanction more purchases for Sarri's methods or just look at sticking plasters.

This season with the resurgence of Arsenal and Tottenham keeping their form it is looking a real challenge to make the top four without reinforcements. 

1 hour ago, Argo said:

Given we signed "his" player and broke the keeper record for him i would say it's so far so good on that score.

Maybe the problem all along is that they just didn't really trust Jose and Conte in the market.

The keeper we had to or a laughing stock we would become. Jorgo had to be bought but ok I give that. But why not sell Willy when an amazing offer came? Why could they not see that we will get nowhere with our striker force? We all knew our forwards are sh*t yet the board could not see it. Some say why mention it so often, it beacause it will prove to be our death sentence rregarding top 4.......our board hase zero vision or planning atm. Our ambition aint half the same........and if its somewhat there we waste it on absolute tosh. You go nowhere like that and we are paying for it now. You take Eden and KAnte away and we have nothing......especially the way we play.

Will we stick with him if we miss out on top 4? 

16 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Will we stick with him if we miss out on top 4? 

Great question, im still confident we can get top 4 ahead of Arsenal and Utd. We have a great chance of winning the Europa League too. But if we did sack him i have no idea who we would replace him with, the Chelsea job isn't as attractive as it once was plus we have had every manager in europe now.

21 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Will we stick with him if we miss out on top 4? 

It would take 7th or worse to even consider it. 

34 minutes ago, atomis said:

The keeper we had to or a laughing stock we would become. Jorgo had to be bought but ok I give that. But why not sell Willy when an amazing offer came? Why could they not see that we will get nowhere with our striker force? We all knew our forwards are sh*t yet the board could not see it. Some say why mention it so often, it beacause it will prove to be our death sentence rregarding top 4.......our board hase zero vision or planning atm. Our ambition aint half the same........and if its somewhat there we waste it on absolute tosh. You go nowhere like that and we are paying for it now. You take Eden and KAnte away and we have nothing......especially the way we play.

We had to get a keeper but we didn't have to break the record on Sarri's choice (he wanted Kepa for Napoli) when decent keepers like Leno, Areola and Butland could have been had for half the price. 

4 minutes ago, Skinnedy said:

It would take 7th or worse to even consider it. 

I'd disagree with that. Top four this season is incredibly important and the effects of missing out for the second season in a row would be terrible.

Edited December 23, 20187 yr by Sindre

3 minutes ago, Sindre said:

I'd disagree with that. Top four this season is incredibly important and the effects of missing out for the second season in a row would be terrible.

It’s incredibly important every year, but unless there’s a collapse of biblical proportions, Sarri will get another run next season. 

Firing him for finishing 5th without fixing the glaring holes in this squad would be madness. 

Edited December 23, 20187 yr by Skinnedy

8 minutes ago, Skinnedy said:

It’s incredibly important every year, but unless there’s a collapse of biblical proportions, Sarri will get another run next season. 

Firing him for finishing 5th without fixing the glaring holes in this squad would be madness. 

Yes. But it's extra, extra important this season as we are already without CL for this season.

You can't "establish" yourself as a non-CL football club if you want to compete. Hazard would almost certainly leave and we are left with a poor squad without a chance of attracting real top-class players.

1 minute ago, Sindre said:

Yes. But it's extra, extra important this season as we are already without CL for this season.

You can't "establish" yourself as a non-CL football club if you want to compete. Hazard would almost certainly leave and we are left with a poor squad without a chance of attracting real top-class players.

No one is arguing the importance of Top 4. 

But Chelsea falling one one spot in the standings before a full summer transfer window, a new coach and a new system...

I'd argue that Conte wasn't fired for finishing 5th so much as his actions off the field. 

The goal coming into the season was Top 4. Not a floor. 

no way Sarri would be fired for on the field performance for finishing 5th this year. 

No way....

 

The January transfer window will shed some light on where we are going, with the entire spotlight being on the Board and Sarri in the Summer.  As fans, as hard as it is, we will have to try and accept that between now and then it's going to be a roller coaster of wins and losses and we may well be outside the top 5 by mid January. Like many, I'm not happy either with the thought of Arsenal and Man U overtaking us  

20 minutes ago, Skinnedy said:

No one is arguing the importance of Top 4. 

But Chelsea falling one one spot in the standings before a full summer transfer window, a new coach and a new system...

I'd argue that Conte wasn't fired for finishing 5th so much as his actions off the field. 

The goal coming into the season was Top 4. Not a floor. 

no way Sarri would be fired for on the field performance for finishing 5th this year. 

No way....

 

Yes it would be harsh on Sarri. For me it would mostly be the clubs fault but if we start falling behind in the race for fourth i think we need to have a hard look at our options.

We can't lose out on CL, lose Hazard and expect to challenge for the major titles again anytime soon. Especially since we are not among the biggest spenders anymore.
We have fallen far behind already and this could be another hard blow.

We had the chance to establish ourselves as the top club in this league after Conte won the title, if we would have supported him with the likes of Van Dijk and Alex Sandro and such.

Now i think we are in a precarcious postion.

27 minutes ago, Argo said:

We had to get a keeper but we didn't have to break the record on Sarri's choice (he wanted Kepa for Napoli) when decent keepers like Leno, Areola and Butland could have been had for half the price. 

Butland aint quality imo.....we got what 30 for the so called snake and paid 40 on top. You cant cheap shot a keeper if you want to go Places.

24 minutes ago, Sindre said:

I'd disagree with that. Top four this season is incredibly important and the effects of missing out for the second season in a row would be terrible.

Its crucial imo.......players want CL, its a big highlight. On top of that you lose alot of revenue not being in CL. The further you are away from CL the lower your stock will get. Eden is def a goner if we dont that 4th place.

I dont see us making top 4. We lack cutting edge. Wolves and the foxes there for the taking. We waste our chances they dont and we are down 6 points.

33 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

I dont see us making top 4. We lack cutting edge. Wolves and the foxes there for the taking. We waste our chances they dont and we are down 6 points.

Me neither.....its not about having faith. I just cannot see it the way we are consistently playing and cut through like butter. Not when spurs and arsenal are getting better and now utd will probably come in too.

5 minutes ago, atomis said:

Me neither.....its not about having faith. I just cannot see it the way we are consistently playing and cut through like butter. Not when spurs and arsenal are getting better and now utd will probably come in too.

Will require heavy investment in quality. Jorginho and kepa were not enough. We need a new left back, another centerback, an attacking midfielder, better wide forwards than Willian and pedro and not 1 but 2 quality strikers.

 

Not happening and the youth are not getting enough of a go so yeah. 5th or 6th for me. Our best hope is we show up in the Europa.

Edited December 23, 20187 yr by axman2526

17 minutes ago, atomis said:

Me neither.....its not about having faith. I just cannot see it the way we are consistently playing and cut through like butter. Not when spurs and arsenal are getting better and now utd will probably come in too.

Spurs fair enough, but i would love to see what you are seeing in Arsenal to suggest they are getting better.

9 minutes ago, Argo said:

Spurs fair enough, but i would love to see what you are seeing in Arsenal to suggest they are getting better.

Various goalscoring options. If Hazard is off it we are less than average.

 

Hazard in top form we are top team. Hazard off form we are not even a top half of the table team.

35 minutes ago, Argo said:

Spurs fair enough, but i would love to see what you are seeing in Arsenal to suggest they are getting better.

Cuz they have a good manager.....he has already adapted and used multiple formations before and during a game. They are running for him and giving their all........they have a strike force we cant even dream about atm. They were off at first, but clearly getting better. We were what 12 pts ahead? Now same pts......they will finish above us if this goes on. And play good footy, very direct and pacy. Its not even a good arsenal team. But they have belief and the desire under him.

Edited December 23, 20187 yr by atomis

31 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Various goalscoring options. If Hazard is off it we are less than average.

Hazard in top form we are top team. Hazard off form we are not even a top half of the table team.

 

6 minutes ago, atomis said:

Cuz they have a good manager.....he has already adapted and used multiple formations before and during a game. They are running for him and giving their all........they have a strike force we cant even dream about atm. They were off at first, but clearly getting better. We were what 12 pts ahead? Now same pts......they will finish above us if this goes on. And play good footy, very direct and pacy. Its not even a good arsenal team. But they have belief and the desire under him.

Emery's being overrated because he's not Wenger. They are reliant on Auba scoring just as much as we are Hazard playing well, if not more so, and their defense is absolutely terrible, even more than it ever was under Wenger. 

And we were never 12 points ahead, the most it's been is 6.

1 minute ago, Argo said:

 

Emery's being overrated because he's not Wenger. They are reliant on Auba scoring just as much as we are Hazard playing well, if not more so, and their defense is absolutely terrible, even more than it ever was under Wenger. 

And we were never 12 points ahead, the most it's been is 6.

Theyhave alot of injruies in that defence.........they are playing better than us, no doubt there. If we hadnt buildt a lead in the beginning we would be below them. They are improving, we are not. They play much faster and more direct. emery aint an elite manager but nonetheless he has done a very good job so far imo.

13 minutes ago, atomis said:

Theyhave alot of injruies in that defence.........they are playing better than us, no doubt there. If we hadnt buildt a lead in the beginning we would be below them. They are improving, we are not. They play much faster and more direct. emery aint an elite manager but nonetheless he has done a very good job so far imo.

Wenger had worse, Emery's defences have always been weak, it's the one reason i never wanted him here when we were looking for a new manager. 

Doesn't matter how we built the lead, the fact is we have and you are really over estimating how well they are playing they have been scraping home bar a few games.

Edited December 23, 20187 yr by Argo