23 hours ago, Strider6003 said:

Xmas fixture comparison between top five from BBC:

Very kind fixture list for Liverpool as always. Two home games in the toughest period and plenty of recovery time between the away games.

We have got the ball retention bit right for the most part, the way we hold the ball under pressure at times is delightful very little of the panic hoofing under Conte and Jose. I don't even think we are that bad defensively given the circumstances, usually at this stage of an attacking managers tenure the defense looks really bad whereas i think we have been allright with a few bad times, we are light years ahead of Klopp and Pep's defences at the same stage put it that way.g speed up at the TV/inside the stadium, there's almost been a 10/11 esque lack of urgency chasing results at times and chances goes without saying, we just simply aren't creating enough and that's down to poor decision making and to tie in with my last point lack of speed of play..

Sarri in my opinion deserves a chance to sort the second paragraph out because in my opinion he's done very well with what i mentioned in the first. When you are struggling for results in the first season under a manager the one question you need to ask is "can i see his plan and what he's trying to do?" and the answer with Sarri is yes.

8 minutes ago, Argo said:

We have got the ball retention bit right for the most part, the way we hold the ball under pressure at times is delightful very little of the panic hoofing under Conte and Jose. I don't even think we are that bad defensively given the circumstances, usually at this stage of an attacking managers tenure the defense looks really bad whereas i think we have been allright with a few bad times, we are light years ahead of Klopp and Pep's defences at the same stage put it that way.g speed up at the TV/inside the stadium, there's almost been a 10/11 esque lack of urgency chasing results at times and chances goes without saying, we just simply aren't creating enough and that's down to poor decision making and to tie in with my last point lack of speed of play..

Sarri in my opinion deserves a chance to sort the second paragraph out because in my opinion he's done very well with what i mentioned in the first. When you are struggling for results in the first season under a manager the one question you need to ask is "can i see his plan and what he's trying to do?" and the answer with Sarri is yes.

That is a good analysis. I think the system would look far better right now if we had a reliable striker at the helm. Costa in his prime would have thrived in this team

1 minute ago, forbzy said:

That is a good analysis. I think the system would look far better right now if we had a reliable striker at the helm. Costa in his prime would have thrived in this team

I actually don't think Costa would have, i mean yes he would get his share of the goals but his technique is too awkward to work long term in a system like Sarri's. 

4 minutes ago, Argo said:

I actually don't think Costa would have, i mean yes he would get his share of the goals but his technique is too awkward to work long term in a system like Sarri's. 

Well he is certainly a troublesome personality in the dressing room but apart from his goals he was great at holding up the ball as center forward. Anyway that ship has sailed either way. I am not sure what options we have in short term. Maybe Bats if he returns from loan but not sure that Sarri rates him. Higuain seems like a possibility but he is well past his best. Martial would be decent but United are always a pain to deal with

We're just not good enough to steam roller opponents playing with the same tactics week in week out, it might work at Real Madrid but not in the Premier League. There's a common denominator with Liverpool, City, Spurs and Arsenal - they don't play with the same formation every week. I haven't given up on Sarri quite yet but at this stage I'd have no qualms if we hired Eddie Howe.

11 minutes ago, the special one said:

There's a common denominator with Liverpool, City, Spurs and Arsenal - they don't play with the same formation every week. 

Yes they do, I honestly have no idea how you could even think that. 

25 minutes ago, the special one said:

We're just not good enough to steam roller opponents playing with the same tactics week in week out, it might work at Real Madrid but not in the Premier League. There's a common denominator with Liverpool, City, Spurs and Arsenal - they don't play with the same formation every week. I haven't given up on Sarri quite yet but at this stage I'd have no qualms if we hired Eddie Howe.

Wait, what? I'm generally interested to know where you think we should be in the league at the moment or where we should finish?.

1 hour ago, Argo said:

We have got the ball retention bit right for the most part, the way we hold the ball under pressure at times is delightful very little of the panic hoofing under Conte and Jose. I don't even think we are that bad defensively given the circumstances, usually at this stage of an attacking managers tenure the defense looks really bad whereas i think we have been allright with a few bad times, we are light years ahead of Klopp and Pep's defences at the same stage put it that way.g speed up at the TV/inside the stadium, there's almost been a 10/11 esque lack of urgency chasing results at times and chances goes without saying, we just simply aren't creating enough and that's down to poor decision making and to tie in with my last point lack of speed of play..

Sarri in my opinion deserves a chance to sort the second paragraph out because in my opinion he's done very well with what i mentioned in the first. When you are struggling for results in the first season under a manager the one question you need to ask is "can i see his plan and what he's trying to do?" and the answer with Sarri is yes.

You're very right in what you're saying, the biggest issues for me are when we are without the ball, final 3rd and lack of finishers. 

We aren't creating enough in the important moments, ball retention is spot on but it's not enough. 

32 minutes ago, dkw said:

Yes they do, I honestly have no idea how you could even think that. 

Maybe not City so you have a point but Arsenal were 4-3-1-2 today... at Bournemouth a few weeks ago 3-4-2-1 - they've also played variations of 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 this season. Liverpool 4-3-3/4-2-3-1, Spurs 4-2-3-1/4-3-3/3-4-2-1 - the point is their patterns of play are not set in stone so they have the advantage of unpredictability. Eddie Howe changes things tactically when something isn't working, other than give the false 9 a go I'm yet to see Sarri try something different - it's too predictable.

Edited December 22, 20187 yr by the special one

I dont think theres any doubt we are too predictable. Its the same formation everytime, the same players every time, same plan etc. No element of surprise or flexibility. The game has evolved in such a way that not doing so will expose you and the team, unless you have 500M of course and even then its needed now and then.

Feeling a bit Emperor’s new clothes to me at the moment.

Not played well for a while now, making the same mistakes every game.

Feel like teams have figured us out. They’re happy to let us have 70% upwards of possession because we’re not effective with it.

We’re pressed on the half way line because we’ll play passes around the centre circle, sideways and backwards allowing teams to get back and get organised.

I’m not seeing an improvement from the start of the season to now. We’re not improving, if anything we’re regressing and we’re setting up every game with the same players in the same system.

Bemused by Sarri at the moment.

I thought it was obvious that the system would be found out. Teams had time to figure out City in the first season on occasions, but eventually it came good. At the moment, I think the players' mentality is at a strange place. A striker would be beneficial, very beneficial as it seems the players have little confidence in our strikers or the false 9. I do agree that Alonso should be replaced and maybe Loftus-Cheek to start. Not sure how much more those couple changes would improve the team though, especially without a potent striker which we are in dire need of. 

Edited December 22, 20187 yr by enigma

Sarri did say that we're a year off Liverpool and City. He's not wrong, never was wrong. He was honest in his assessment so it should come as no surprise. We are currently sitting in 4th place and this is where we deserve to be right now. The board need to pull their finger out in January though. We are going to go through very rough patches along with poor performances. Tottenham under Poch, Liverpool under Klopp, and City under Pep all went through tough periods with bad results, it's going to happen.

We aren't guaranteed anything in football, in this league, and we certainly don't have a divine right to be challenging for the title every season. These things go in ebbs and flows, and if it means going through a period of disappointment to finally get to where we want to be, then so be it. I just hope the board maintain the vision and goal rather than veer off it as they have done many times previously. We desperately need a long period of calm and composure under the right coach. 

49 minutes ago, the special one said:

Maybe not City so you have a point but Arsenal were 4-3-1-2 today... at Bournemouth a few weeks ago 3-4-2-1 - they've also played variations of 4-3-3 and 4-2-3-1 this season. Liverpool 4-3-3/4-2-3-1, Spurs 4-2-3-1/4-3-3/3-4-2-1 - the point is their patterns of play are not set in stone so they have the advantage of unpredictability. Eddie Howe changes things tactically when something isn't working, other than give the false 9 a go I'm yet to see Sarri try something different - it's too predictable.

Thats because it wouldn't be Sarri's style if we kept chopping and changing formation. The players need to learn and adapt to the tactics. I don't really think a formation change is the answer. Conte kept the same formation in the first season he came, but nobody could figure it out. Towards the end of the season, into the second season they did. It happens, you can't always expect success no matter what formation you choose. At the end of the day, football is about fine margins, hitting the post and the ball sliding millimetres past the bar are fine margins and the luck of the draw. Liverpool were crap the other week against everton, but the fine margin was the absolute fortune they had with that fluke goal. It happens, you can't always predict how a game will go. No game is simple. 

Has less points than Conte did at the same stage of the season last season.

Sarri has a better squad too.

I was sceptical of Sarri’s appointment at the start of the season and he’s not done much to convince me otherwise so far. 

5 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Has less points than Conte did at the same stage of the season last season.

Sarri has a better squad too.

I was sceptical of Sarri’s appointment at the start of the season and he’s not done much to convince me otherwise so far. 

Conte effectively left in spirit in January though, which Sarri is most unlikely to do.

Sort of some unforeseen meltdown we should surely finish with more than 70 points. 

He’s building something new, and it’s going to take time. We’re not nearly as good as his Napoli team was, and we have better quality players. Give him a few windows to build what he wants to build. We’ve seen it works when the pieces fall into place, it just requires patience on our part. Given how utterly fecked we looked at the start of pre-season with Conte still in the role and half the team wanting out, where we are now feels pretty good to me. 

What worries me the most is the midfield. It's very, very dysfunctional and the manager haven't shown any signs of doing anything about it.

Surely when you get to a club you want to try to get the best out of your top players. And Sarri has turned Kante into a complete average where he's played for half the season now.

Meanwhile his best pal Jorginho is looking worse and worse in his role as well. Hardly gives the backline an ounce of protection and gets overran by literally anyone who has a go at him. Weak physically, slow, poor tackler and to me he looks more and more like a player thats unsuited to this league. At least in his current position.

For me Sarri needs to do something about both these issues ASAP. 

Sack him get someone else im ....it's not working no such thing as Sarri Ball ..all rubbish

1 less point, 1 less goal conceded and the same number scored in the league at this stage last season. 

Sarri does not seem to know how to fix our problems. He better figure it out fast as Arsenal have, without a doubt, improved quickly under their new manager.

4 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Has less points than Conte did at the same stage of the season last season.

Sarri has a better squad too.

I was sceptical of Sarri’s appointment at the start of the season and he’s not done much to convince me otherwise so far. 

Who did you want to replace Conte?.

7 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

Who did you want to replace Conte?.

If the purpose of the appointment was to overhaul the club culture and playing style rather than a results first approach then I would have liked Howe. 

I think he’s done a great job at Bournemouth and shown he’s capable of building a good side whilst playing decent football. That’s essentially what Sarri did in Italy and Napoli took a punt on him. Sarri knew the Italian football culture from basically grassroots upwards, Howe the same.

If it were based on previous successes, I would have preferred Jardim. I think he showed a lot of talent to win the title with Monaco and helped to develop a lot of young players into extremely good footballers. 

4 hours ago, DaRick said:

Conte effectively left in spirit in January though, which Sarri is most unlikely to do.

Sort of some unforeseen meltdown we should surely finish with more than 70 points. 

Up until this point last season Conte had done well despite all the rumours of a fallout with the board etc. It was January where things really started to fall apart in terms of results. If Sarri has a similarly bad run of form in the next month he will no doubt start feeling the pressure.

I am also not convinced our squad is so much improved this season either. Morata was actually looking good this time last year. Kante was playing in his most comfortable position. Alonso and Azpi were playing in a defensive system that they were more comfortable with etc.

50 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

1 less point, 1 less goal conceded and the same number scored in the league at this stage last season. 

Sarri does not seem to know how to fix our problems. He better figure it out fast as Arsenal have, without a doubt, improved quickly under their new manager.

If Arsenal have figured it all out why are they still below us?

4 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Has less points than Conte did at the same stage of the season last season.

Sarri has a better squad too.

I was sceptical of Sarri’s appointment at the start of the season and he’s not done much to convince me otherwise so far. 

Unfair because we are not looking to fix things from this time last year, we were doing well at the halfway stage last season and if Conte kept that form up (or even close too) he would still be in a job, it was the mess he created after that we are now trying to fix.