This is something that has become a huge concern at the club. For the past 3 seasons we have been watching our players get pulled off game after game with injuries, to the point where we can't seem to go 2 games without at least one of our subs being used on an injured player.

I have also noticed that our players can't seem to play at a high tempo at all. When they try, they either break down with injury or they can't sustain it for long periods. Every other team in the league seems to play with a lot of energy and pace, but we are so slow and look dead on our feet.

Surely this isn't normal. You can be unlucky, it happens to every club now and again, but 3 years on the trot?

Our schedule compared to other teams has been a bit hectic, but we also have a much bigger squad than most, so I am not sure that can be used as an excuse. It feels like the team is ill-prepared for the physical requirements of the game at this level.

Kovacic and Kante were ran into the ground by Tuchel, which has led to them sustaining chronic issues. Fofana and James were a bit unlucky with knee injuries. 
 

I think in terms of tempo, or playing at a high intensity, this has been an issue since Sarri’s reign and he was the first to notoriously question the players mentality publicly. They pick and choose when to play at a high level whereas the players at rival clubs seem to have it drilled in them every match week. 

There is a deep rooted issue within the club that is allowing it. 

 

 

I call it the English disease though it is also British and American.

Think modern civilisation is making us more injury prone think the sides you are referring to probably have more foreign players that are more injury resistant.

Last season we had just two players playing over 30 league matches in 2018 we had six players doing this. 

Just seen this as a percentage we have the most disabled people, for me there is a link.

https://hrnews.co.uk/these-countries-have-the-highest-disability-rates-in-europe/

I agree with Sconnie about Kovacic, and Kante being run into the ground, but I think Kante probably goes beyond Tuchel. I think every manager that has used him has run him into the ground he might not ever be the same. Beyond that I think our fixture schedule and the pandemic really did a number on us.

Thought it was obvious from GP game 1 that the squad is very poorly trained from a fitness perspective. The exact reasons are difficult to nail down without knowing how Tuchel and previous managers approached the issue.

GP works according to Raymond Verheijens model. Back in the old days (and in many countries it still the case) it was believed that just turning players into generally good athletes was the optimal thing to do. Go run in the mountain, lift heavy weights etc. But with data, it became apparent that this was a flawed model - because running mile after mile at the same pace has very little to do with football. It became clear that after a sprint, players would generally perform a lot worse for up to five minutes after the sprint.

Today, GP and other managers wants to condition players into developing footballer bodies rather than athletic bodies. One example is that excersises in training are shorter, but more intense. By doing this, the body adapts to the realities of football: recovery times after a sprint decreases, muscles get used to go in and out of intense actions etc.

Quite possible, Tuchel wanted to work according to these principles as well (because most modern managers do) but over the last years, Covid resulted in very tight schedules - nearly all training will be about rehab & recovery rather than actually developing players. Difficult to really make a change then. The fact that Chelsea has also had a tendency of signing players at ages where they're unlikely to improve or change is obviously not helping either.

Unfortunately, conditioning footballers into having bodies that thrive in intense situations is a bit of a long-term project. It takes time. Marcelo Bielsa struggled at first in Leeds, before his squad adapted and became the fittest team in the league. GPs boys in Brighton struggled a bit in the latter minutes of the games in his first season there, while last year his Brighton was one of the teams that scored the most goals in the final 10 minutes.

The process can be made shorter if you actually sign players that has been trained according to Verheijens model. But Chelsea in recent years got zero idea about what they want to do in the transfer market. Its just a randomly assembled group of players with good reputations or good CVs. 

1 hour ago, Sconnie Blue said:

I think in terms of tempo, or playing at a high intensity, this has been an issue since Sarri’s reign and he was the first to notoriously question the players mentality publicly. They pick and choose when to play at a high level whereas the players at rival clubs seem to have it drilled in them every match week. 

Outside of City and Liverpool (Arsenal need more sample size) I don't think that's the case atall.

United’s intensity or lack off has been terrible for some time and Spurs last had consistent intensity in the Pochettino days.

Give it a couple of years @Scott Harris. Am sure we will have the finest medical department in all the Championship!

2 hours ago, SwedishEntity said:

Thought it was obvious from GP game 1 that the squad is very poorly trained from a fitness perspective. The exact reasons are difficult to nail down without knowing how Tuchel and previous managers approached the issue.

GP works according to Raymond Verheijens model. Back in the old days (and in many countries it still the case) it was believed that just turning players into generally good athletes was the optimal thing to do. Go run in the mountain, lift heavy weights etc. But with data, it became apparent that this was a flawed model - because running mile after mile at the same pace has very little to do with football. It became clear that after a sprint, players would generally perform a lot worse for up to five minutes after the sprint.

Today, GP and other managers wants to condition players into developing footballer bodies rather than athletic bodies. One example is that excersises in training are shorter, but more intense. By doing this, the body adapts to the realities of football: recovery times after a sprint decreases, muscles get used to go in and out of intense actions etc.

Quite possible, Tuchel wanted to work according to these principles as well (because most modern managers do) but over the last years, Covid resulted in very tight schedules - nearly all training will be about rehab & recovery rather than actually developing players. Difficult to really make a change then. The fact that Chelsea has also had a tendency of signing players at ages where they're unlikely to improve or change is obviously not helping either.

Unfortunately, conditioning footballers into having bodies that thrive in intense situations is a bit of a long-term project. It takes time. Marcelo Bielsa struggled at first in Leeds, before his squad adapted and became the fittest team in the league. GPs boys in Brighton struggled a bit in the latter minutes of the games in his first season there, while last year his Brighton was one of the teams that scored the most goals in the final 10 minutes.

The process can be made shorter if you actually sign players that has been trained according to Verheijens model. But Chelsea in recent years got zero idea about what they want to do in the transfer market. Its just a randomly assembled group of players with good reputations or good CVs. 

How much do you know about Raymond Verheijen? 

Verheijen despises data and in the 2010s toured the world arguing that data analysis and evidence-based practice was ruining football S&C. His singular claim to fame, at that point, was apparently getting Craig Bellamy on the pitch for an extended period of time. He loudly proclaimed this was due to identifiying Bellamy as an "explosive" player and giving him an individualised training plan - which despite Verheijen's insistance, was actually common practice in sport for at least half a decade and stems from common sense in any case. Verheijen has created a straw man argument where he believes that football S&C is not football-specific, even though there is no evidence to suggest that actually occurs at the top level. 

My favourite memory of him was his stoush with the Australian S&C community, who having stemmed from successful careers in AFL (one of the best human performance setups in sport), took their knowledge to football including the EPL. Verheijen was apparently incensed that these jobs did not go to "football people" - coded xenophobia, really - and took to criticising prominent Australian football S&C coaches. Their crime? For pointing out that training should be sport-specific as well as person-specific, and that data analysis is the most objective way to ensure those goals. Verheijen's rant about "fitness cowboys and sport-science clowns" comes to mind.

So two things - let's not give Verheijen too much credit for loudly restating the obvious, and secondly let's not pretend that Graham Potter is doing something unique or modern. He is doing the same thing this club has been doing since Jose Mourinho brought in Rui Faria in 2004 and switched out laps of the park for ball-specific drills. Chelsea were one of the first clubs to invest heavily in a LPS system for training and game day for accurate data on player movement and fitness indicators and despite social media opinion, our data gathering and analysis operations have been consistently praised as one of the best in the league even prior to the American Revolution™. If Potter is a Verheijen disciple, then Boehly's American imports will be his worst nightmare.

Edited November 13, 20223 yr by SydneyChelsea

It's always our key players/in form players as well, Kante, James, Kepa when he finally found form, Ziyech everytime he finds form. Pulisic before his injury was so exciting now half this fan base has given up on him. Chilwell everytime he finds form, Kovacic, I'm sure the list goes on and on.

I think it's fair to say objectively (even though it's still pretty subjective people will dispute one or two) our 5 best players in no particular order are Silva, Kante, James, Chilwell and Mount. I say these 5 because they are crucial to the system/way we play especially in a back 3. I could extend it to best 7 and include Kova +Jorginho when on top form. These are all players instrumental to winning the ucl, you need ucl winners fit and available in your squad if you're going to win games.

No doubt though the wingbacks Chilwell and James when fit are probably the best two wingbacks in world football it's why when fit they won the ucl, helped push us to the top of the table last season and when they're injured we can't play football. Mount when on form is a pressing machine, links the attack and midfield well and all around positive influence (could he score more sure but let's not pretend he's an out and out forward). Silva is aging but we all know what he brings and same with Ngolo although an extra note is he's been injury prone since that Europa final which Sarri made him played injured.

James is world class, Silva is world class, Kante is world class. They're the only 3 that it's not really debatable. Ofc we look bad without them. Chilwell when on form is pretty damn close to world class tbf and its hard to judge him coming off a recent serious injury especially now he'll be coming off the back of 2. Mount's number last season suggest he's in a bracket below world class but still defined as good good player with a promising career. The man supplied the assist for a ucl winning goal take nothing away from him he's a baller.

To rely so heavily on your wingbacks and to only have 3 in your squad blows my mind. Same with the midfield pivot you have 3 top midfielders why not sign another who's more in the profile of Kante for when he's unavailable. Poor planning and failure to learn from mistakes or predict crisis has led us to fall victim to injury hit seasons back to back. Whilst unfortunate, someone has to take the blame for the over reliance on a select few players when the workload of carrying the team should be much more evenly spread out.

 

50 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

 

That was Roman's Chelsea. We are not Roman's Chelsea anymore. I think too many just shrug that off like it is a minor detail.

8 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

That was Roman's Chelsea. We are not Roman's Chelsea anymore. I think too many just shrug that off like it is a minor detail.

Roman’s Chelsea has been a cup team since 2018. 

16 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Roman’s Chelsea has been a cup team since 2018. 

Aye that is true. The vid you posted asked about discipline, it was from the CL.

7 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Aye that is true. The vid you posted asked about discipline, it was from the CL.

Hence the topic of discussion. 
 

There is a deep rooted issue why this core of players pick and choose when to perform. 

Just now, Sconnie Blue said:

Hence the topic of discussion. 
 

There is a deep rooted issue why this core of players pick and choose when to perform. 

That goes back a lot further mate. 2012 was won in spite of the manager, Grant almost won it too no thanks to his own abilities.

2 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

That goes back a lot further mate. 2012 was won in spite of the manager, Grant almost won it too no thanks to his own abilities.

I’d say 2017. Through 2017-2019 we sold all of our character in Terry, Costa, Cesc, and Hazard whilst failing to upgrade them. 

 

 

 

 

40 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

I’d say 2017. Through 2017-2019 we sold all of our character in Terry, Costa, Cesc, and Hazard whilst failing to upgrade them. 

 

 

 

 

You don't upgrade on players like that, like we did not with Zola. We could not find better than him because he was the best at what he did.

We needed to make moves to find the same levels of commitment and character, which finding players of ability willing to fight too. We failed as you pointed out.

8 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

How much do you know about Raymond Verheijen? 

Verheijen despises data and in the 2010s toured the world arguing that data analysis and evidence-based practice was ruining football S&C. His singular claim to fame, at that point, was apparently getting Craig Bellamy on the pitch for an extended period of time. He loudly proclaimed this was due to identifiying Bellamy as an "explosive" player and giving him an individualised training plan - which despite Verheijen's insistance, was actually common practice in sport for at least half a decade and stems from common sense in any case. Verheijen has created a straw man argument where he believes that football S&C is not football-specific, even though there is no evidence to suggest that actually occurs at the top level. 

My favourite memory of him was his stoush with the Australian S&C community, who having stemmed from successful careers in AFL (one of the best human performance setups in sport), took their knowledge to football including the EPL. Verheijen was apparently incensed that these jobs did not go to "football people" - coded xenophobia, really - and took to criticising prominent Australian football S&C coaches. Their crime? For pointing out that training should be sport-specific as well as person-specific, and that data analysis is the most objective way to ensure those goals. Verheijen's rant about "fitness cowboys and sport-science clowns" comes to mind.

So two things - let's not give Verheijen too much credit for loudly restating the obvious, and secondly let's not pretend that Graham Potter is doing something unique or modern. He is doing the same thing this club has been doing since Jose Mourinho brought in Rui Faria in 2004 and switched out laps of the park for ball-specific drills. Chelsea were one of the first clubs to invest heavily in a LPS system for training and game day for accurate data on player movement and fitness indicators and despite social media opinion, our data gathering and analysis operations have been consistently praised as one of the best in the league even prior to the American Revolution™. If Potter is a Verheijen disciple, then Boehly's American imports will be his worst nightmare.

He does. Verheijen is a strange fecker, but he has good points in the limited areas he know something about. The reason why I mentioned data was not because of Verheijens attitude towards it, but because data gave legitimacy to Verheijens preferred methods (which aren't unique but he was one of the early and strongest promoters of the 'new' approach).

On 14/11/2022 at 01:53, Sconnie Blue said:

Kovacic and Kante were ran into the ground by Tuchel, which has led to them sustaining chronic issues. Fofana and James were a bit unlucky with knee injuries. 
 

I think in terms of tempo, or playing at a high intensity, this has been an issue since Sarri’s reign and he was the first to notoriously question the players mentality publicly. They pick and choose when to play at a high level whereas the players at rival clubs seem to have it drilled in them every match week. 

There is a deep rooted issue within the club that is allowing it. 

 

 

Both were injury prone prior to TT's arrival so your argument makes no sense.

On 13/11/2022 at 17:08, Scott Harris said:

For the past 3 seasons we have been watching our players get pulled off game after game

Those behind the scenes changing room videos sound like an interesting watch.

7 hours ago, reparto corse said:

Both were injury prone prior to TT's arrival so your argument makes no sense.

Kante maybe, but certainly not Kovacic. He only missed 5 games through injury in 2.5 seasons. Under Tuchel, Kovacic has missed 26 games in 1.5 seasons.  

The signs were always there, which makes Tuchel's decision not to bring in midfield reinforcements over the summer that much more damming. 

 

Kovacic has not managed more than 25 league games since he arrived.