Nibs

There again, maybe stick with the original 12!!!

It's all pretty bloody depressing really. It's gonna be bad enough going to work tomorrow. If we hadn't got that equalizer I think I'd have had to throw my first sickie in years

I just think no matter what team we put out at the moment - the balance just isn't there. Even when Drogba and Lamps have played, we still seem unbalanced. Too many new players in the squad? I don't know. At times tonight we knocked the ball about well. Despite what Loz says, there was some good inter play between Belletti and Joe and Essien and Sheva. But we look a bit toothless and for me, Kalou looks way off being a first team regular. At present, he is no more thatn a sub to throw on who has a bit of pace, but rarely looks like being a real threat.

Loz, I know you had a wedding at the weekend, but it's time to stop drinking. You really must have missed a lot of the game tonight (I think you admitted that already?). I will repeat that Joe wasn't great but to say he was worth a 1 or 2 is churlish. Both Sheva and Ballack have had far worst games than that in a blue shirt and constantly - that's why they have been slated. Was that Joe's second start of the season for us tonight? Yeah, he was far from great but still nowhere near as bad as you are making out. Still, if you want to jump on the bandwagon of slating a player after one iffy performance......................

Loz mate, I can only assume your TV is seriously on the blink. Joe 1???? He wasn't great - I wont pretend that he was. But he put in 3 or 4 GOOD crosses. Into the box where, you know, attackers should be attacking the ball. If Joe was invisible what was Kalou??? And SWP did more in 10 minutes than Joe in the whole game? Sorry Loz, nowhere near it.

Yet another tough call. On a night of a very disappointing result some of the performances were not bad, although at times the defence looked all over the place. Sheva did a lot better tonight - glad he got the goal, but still can't see a MOTM performance in what he did. Malouda was a lot better in the second half and must come close but I've gone for Belletti. He showed a great deal of urgency when needed second half and had many great touches. I like him.

I really do admire the loyalty some of the people on this forum are showing to poor old Sheva. I can totally understand it. If you've seen a player at their very best and know what they are capable of, it is often hard to accept when things go bad, even when it is painfully clear to the rest of us. I think there are numerous reasons why it just isn't working with Sheva - most of them have been covered in this thread by the fors and againsts. Some of it may well come down to our style of play and our very stubborn coach and the team mates he now has to play with but ultimately it has to rest with Sheva himself. I really don't know how many times people need to see him struggle through games to accept that his legs have gone. It is far too easy to blame others and cry about the fact he doesn't have a Kaka any more. A good player should be able to adapt. Still at least some good has come out of it. Robert Fleck lives just down my road and knowing I'm a Chelsea supporter he is normally a bit sheepish when I see him and keeps his head down. Since we signed Sheva he has a new lease of life and now happily acknowledges me and chats - obviously something to do with no longer being Chelsea's worst ever signing (in terms of cost and return on investment). I expect Chris Sutton to be moving into the neighbourhood any day................................................................

So we miss Frank. Last season we missed Cech. And JT. And Joe Cole and Robben etc etc. I am not saying Lamps isn't a hugely important player for us but I think some people are getting a bit carried away. So the only reason we haven't won the last couple of games is because Frank wasn't playing? What about last season when there were plenty of games we didn't win when Frank was playing? What was the reason then? At the weekend, if Sheva had have done better with 1 or 2 of the good chances he had and if the perfectly good goal had stood we would be talking about a pretty comfortable 2-0 or 3-0 win. I would say we missed Drogba's finishing (and I never though I would hear myself say that going back a couple of seasons) just as much as we missed Frank. It is worrying that we seem to be relying so heavily on the goals of two players. That's why I've never been in favour of having the 30 + goals a season striker. It's always so much better when the goals are shared throughout the team. Unfortunately we do appear to have a number of players who just don't score that many goals. But far more worrying for me than Lamps missing is the complete lack of threat up front when Drogba isn't available. Sheva, Pizarro, Kalou. They just don't instill me with any sort of confidence at all.

I admit Lofty I included a fair number of lads mag babes. At least I drew the line in including any Big Brother housemates.Like your line up. A couple I haven't heard of but my comments........... Lysette Anthony - Definite Yes and still would be. Hayley Mills - I'm a bit of a KulaShaker fan and that's the lead singers mum so don't think I could get past that!! Susan Penhaligan - Was she in bouquet of barbed wire. If so another definite yes. Leslie-Anne Down - Yes Judy Geeson - Very much a yes. Julie Christie - Yes again. Jenny Agutter - Railway children and Walkabout. (hands up who else freeze framed the bit where she goes skinny dipping - come on I'm not the only one) Marianne Faithful - In her prime maybe although I prefer Snickers. Joanne Whalley - Might just squeeze in. Joanna Lumley - Purdy. Had a girl in my class who looked like her (well same haircut anyway) back in '77 - it was LOVE!!. Definite yes.

No way could I sit through a womens football match. Not unless England put out a side along the lines of the following: 1. Kelly Brooke 2. Michelle Marsh 3. Nigella Lawson (for BJD) 4. Claire Sweeney (for my bruv!) 5. Beyone (English Nan???) 6. Christina Aguilera (Another English nan???) 7. Keeley Hazell 8. Lucy Pinder 9. Holly Willoughby 10. Bird off the special K ad (you know the one) 11. The one that can sing from the Sugarbabes Then I might just force myself to watch.....................................

Joe wasn't brilliant but still created more than all the others put together (it was him opening up the Blackburn defence which led to the disallowed goal). Lets hope he gets a run of games - he will get better.

You can never say it will happen (ok, you just did!!) but look at Man Utd last season and the luck they had with injuries. At the moment they have Gallas injured. I think the only player in their team who they cannot afford to lose is Fabregas - the lad is different class. And what really pisses me off big time is not only are they playing much better football than us, is that they've nicked Diarra, one of our most promising younger players.

That's what worries me. At least when Arse broke up their side they did the right thing and got good youngsters in. They might have had a couple of very average seasons but loot at the football they are playing now. We on the other hand went the "Big Name" route and that looks like one pretty monumental bad move. Wenger is good enough to re-build and those that wrote the Gooners off last season and beginning of this have gone very quiet. It maybe too early to panic but if we carry on like we've started this season and allowing for the African Nations, we'll be lucky to finish top four.

3 votes for Sheva? Is that piss taking of the highest order or are there 3 people out there who have a heck of a lot in common with Stevie Wonder.

I wouldn't question his attitude at all. My only question is why we wasted ?30m on him in the first place? The signs were already well there that Sheva's best days were behind him. I guess that is one of the draw backs of having a multi billionaire at the helm. We've been mugged big time. As Alan Hansen said on MOTD, telling us something we already knew - his legs have gone. It's why I always wanted us to sign a young striker and one with hunger.

I notice that despite the fact Lamps & Ballack are injured and we have a CL game coming up, still no-one is reckoning on Sidwell. Is he injured or has he already become the forgotten man?

No need to post on my behalf Jack but thanks anyway!! Sorry, Nibsy, didn't mean to tread on any toes! But it's as obvious as the nose on your face! Blimey Nibs thats the best pic I've seen of you for years !!!! Jack where did you get that?? Okay, my nose might not be small but I don't think it actually resembles a cock. And the last time I had as much hair as that bruv was probably about the same time you played a decent game of football. It really is that long ago!!!

Bloody well said. Agree with all of that. These days, this world has become so pc it's gone way too far.

No need to post on my behalf Jack but thanks anyway!!

That is some result. Paris will be rather lively tonight.

Can't really agree with that. As a Chelsea fan I love it when Chelsea players are involved with England. In the past there was little interest for me in watching England (with the notable exceptions of 1990 and 1996 finals). Over the years it was great when a Chelsea player got included in the squad - Wilkins, Dixon, Dorigo, Le Saux or whoever, but now we are spoilt and it's great to see England with so many of our boys involved, especially if they play well and get the praise for it. However, if a player is not playing well, or another player who plays in his position is doing well, he shouldn't play - regardless of who he is - Lampard, Beckham, Rooney - whoever. If Joe has a couple of crap games for England then he should be replaced (although of course, NOT by Stuart Downing). Same goes for Lamps. He has been average for England for a while and the Gerrard / Lampard partnership just doesn't work. Okay, Stevie G is well over hyped by the media and all but if you speak to absolute neutrals who really don't give a toss one way or the other, if they had to pick between the two, most would pick Gerrard over Lamps. Hard for us non neutrals to accept but a fact none the less. So If Gerrard and Barry works and well, or even if it was Hargreaves and Barry and no Gerrard or Lamps, so be it. Just because they are a big name and on paper a top player, that alone does not and should not guarantee them getting selected - that is where we have always gone wrong in the past.

I think it will be pretty harsh on any of the 11 who started against Israel if they do not start tonight. If the same 11 play tonight and again do well it will leave McLaren with a bit of a dilemma and could leave the likes of our Frank in a situation they are not used to. It will be a little ironic if at international level Lamps has to sit on the bench and watch SWP & Joe start every game.

Have to agree with most of that Loz. Even as one of Joe's main backers on this forum (along with Barak and in the absence these days of Riz and Ian Watkins - what happened to those two?), I am not so biased that I believe he is the greatest thing since George Best. I still stand by the opinion that he is the most talented player in terms of sheer skill in our entire squad, but I do fully appreciate that that alone is not enough. As much as I love flair players, I know that teams need the Lampards, Makalele's & Essien's of this world. My gripe has always been about giving players a fair chance. We should be looking to get the best out of a player like Joe and give him confidence. I just hate injustices. Knowing what Joe is capable of and seeing him sitting on the bench and seeing the likes of Ballack and presently Malouda play and hardly justify selection is just bloody annoying to be honest. If Joe got a run of 3-4 games and during those games he was poor or even average, then I would be one of the first to say drop him - just like I have in the past with other players. He isn't always great, but he is a talent we should be nurturing and encouraging. And that brings us back nicely to the fact that this thread is all about Joe & Jose. And frankly I do worry - not just about Joe, but about any "flair" players ever being able to really make any impression under Mourinho. I know Mourinho originally took a load of credit for the "New Joe Cole" a couple of seasons ago. He was no longer the one trick pony with no end product but now was a much improved all round player and all thanks to Jose. To some extent that was (is) true. But when I look at him play now, I see a player playing in fear. Okay, he will still try the stepovers and he still has the odd trick, but he takes very few risks now. And you can just imagine his thinking - "of course I could go on a dribble, beat 3-4 players and score a great goal like Maradona, then again if I lose it, I'll get a bollocking and be back on the bench next game". I am now of the opinion that as long as Mourinho stays as coach, we will never see the likes of Joe play the game how they are capable of playing it. I've said it before - where would Zola fit into a Jose side and as for those hoping we sign Ronaldinho as some point..................................

Can't disagree with that or any of your post Flasher. I like that term - Cult Hereos. Could be a long old list though! I've said the same thing about Wee Pat myself - I really wish there was some footage available of the little man at his dazzling best - I could watch it over & over again. He'd certainly top my list off all time Chelsea cult heroes - many of the John Neal side would be in there with him to be honest. But it is very subjective - one mans hero is another mans villian. I know of at least two Chelsea spporters who view Vinnie Jones as a cult hero - I expect that has a lot to do with him getting booked after 3 seconds against Sheff Utd

I know Joe hasn't played much recently, but I hadn't realised that he had retired! and I think Messi still turns out for Barca most weekends (not that I'm suggesting you are contadicting yourself ) Ah, that why I said I view legends as players who no longer play but why I prefer to list players that I just enjoy watching play and players who I admire. Nevin is still my all time favourite but perhaps would not be classed as a legend as he never achieved much etc. SO THERE!!! (And yes Barak - add em to the list!)