We're going backwards

[The Brit]

can't believe how poor a side we've become...another sh*te result against lower league opposition at home...some people wanted the old days back, well here they are! I'm wondering how long scolari has got before there is open hostility...his excuses after a game are getting tired...grant was copping more abuse for a lot less last season...the sad thing is i'm no longer surprised when the opposition score to draw/go ahead at the moment...we just don't have the look of a team who can win trophies...only lampard is playing at a high level for us this season in terms of forward players and when he doesn't perform we look desperate...i think utd next week is massive for scolari and our season...if we lose, our title hopes are hanging by a thread and i can't imagine roman is too happy with what's going on either...it's three months since our last good win against a good side (Villa) and the boys in blue need to at least draw at utd in impressive style to restore my faith let alone their own

[nickwus]

Is it me, but it seems like our string of poor results occurred just after Steve Clarke left the club.....

whatever it was he was doing, we need it be done again, and fast...

Nick

[callista]

I'm not sure if I am ready to sign up to the "if Clarke was here we would be doing much better" brigade but I do wonder if Clarke leaving broke the last vestiges of the Mourinho training regime which all the players appeared to love and forms such a fundamental part of success on the pitch.

Ray Wilkins is certainly no replacement for Clarke in that department. He simply seems to act as a face for when Scolari does not feel like communicating with the media.

You wonder with apparent issues the players have had with training, them tiring more during games and so on if they are finding that all is not well on the training ground.

Scolari has now got rid of every person who was a link to what this current bunch of players knew and felt comfortable with and replaced them with his own men and you wonder if that is proving to be a mistake.

I personally think it is and that Scolari should have kept Clarke around or if he was unable to do so at least hire someone similar to assist him - not Wilkins.

Edited January 4, 2009 by callista

[coco]

Is it me, but it seems like our string of poor results occurred just after Steve Clarke left the club.....

http://www.theshedend.com/index.php?showto...st&p=166522

Form for the last 20 Games - all comps (15wks) Since 21st Sept.

Won 9 (3 home- 6 away)

Lost 4 (3 home - 1 away)

Drawn 7 (4 home - 3 away)

F 34

A 14

Totally crap, considering some of the opposition.....

Southend

Burnley

Fulham

West Spam

Bordeaux

CFR ???

Newcastle??????? (See them against the ratmunchers last week?)

Roma (Same Roma Vs manure lost 7-1)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

So what does this prove ?

The clue is in the date this bad run started, 21st Sept.

These are all the games weve played since Steve Clarke left the club on the 16th Sept.

Come back Clarkey !

[Maksimov]

We were getting some terrible results during Grant's reign as well when Clarke was still here. I mean, anyone remember the two 4-4 draws against Villa and Spurs(for example)? You simply should win if you score four goals in a match. Especially if you score the 4-3 goal just minutes before full time or if you lead the match four times.

[dkw]

its funny how the truth is sometimes ignored about history. we had plenty of ridiculous home results under grant such as 1-1 at home to bolton and wigan, the 0-0 v fulham and as maksimov said the 4-4 v tottenham. even the 4-3 v leicester was pretty ridiculous and was a game we could easily have drawn or lost, and that was against a team that finished next to bottom of the championship.

[rolo_88]

are things really bad as they seem tho? were 3 points behind liverpool and would be 2 points behind man u IF they win their two games in hand, were in the last 16 of the champions league, havent got the worst draw in the world against Juventus, and a lucky 89 min equaliser against Southend in the FA Cup?? C'mon things could be worst!!!!!! we know we need to buy in the transfer window and weve got The Train (Essien) to come back, no-one else in the league has had injuries like weve had this year, and last year for that matter., if you think about it, are we really in that bad of shape going into the second half of the season?? especailly if we buy in Jan??

[Maksimov]

Well, we need to start capitalising on our scoring chances and stop condeding silly late goals.

Yours truly,

Mr. Obvious

[Johan Gruyff]

I can't believe it! This is pathetic! How many late goals have we conceded this season? I was watching the btyahoo.com football update, and I said to my brother "If we concede now, I am gonna scream! It can't happen again!" The past two, Fulham and Southend, have both been missing JT. Both goals are from failing to clear a header in the last minute. Fulham, Ivanovic ducked out of the way and Southend, Carvalho missed an easy header! That's where we're missing JT.

[Mr Chelsea]

C'mon things could be worst!!!!!!

we could be man city :)

we're just going through a phase of re-adjustment at the moment, it will come good of that i'm sure

it may be we're missing clarkeys influence, but west ham arnet doing that good with him there

we're still in the prem race, we're still in the champs league and still in the fa cup, its all looking good

maybe i'm just to positive ;)

[Lofty]

its funny how the truth is sometimes ignored about history. we had plenty of ridiculous home results under grant such as 1-1 at home to bolton and wigan, the 0-0 v fulham and as maksimov said the 4-4 v tottenham. even the 4-3 v leicester was pretty ridiculous and was a game we could easily have drawn or lost, and that was against a team that finished next to bottom of the championship.

Yes we did. Every team there ever was has an occasional dip in form, suffers the occasional shock result. What's different about the current situation is that the only consistency to be had is that our home from in particular is consistently poor. As I keep saying, take any one of those results and it could be regarded as a blip, string them all together and you've got relegation form - face it, how bad is it when the only recent home win is against West Brom?

No I'm not saying we'll get relegated. I don't believe that for one minute. What I am saying is that this is how bad our home form has been.

Consistently.

[dkw]

Yes we did. Every team there ever was has an occasional dip in form, suffers the occasional shock result. What's different about the current situation is that the only consistency to be had is that our home from in particular is consistently poor. As I keep saying, take any one of those results and it could be regarded as a blip, string them all together and you've got relegation form - face it, how bad is it when the only recent home win is against West Brom?

No I'm not saying we'll get relegated. I don't believe that for one minute. What I am saying is that this is how bad our home form has been.

Consistently.

so similar to drawing to fulham and reading at home over the xmas period then, like we did under jose in 2006 which pretty much did for our title challenge that season?

[Lofty]

so similar to drawing to fulham and reading at home over the xmas period then, like we did under jose in 2006 which pretty much did for our title challenge that season?

That's 2 results. Nothing like the recent run of home form. Shall I list them again?

Pikeys

Arsenal

Newcastle

Scouse c**ts

N17 Scum

Burnley

Southend

Have I missed any? Throw a few aways into the mix: Fulham, Everton, Roma, and add a few more both home and away we were fortunate to win and it's blatantly obvious that our current league positon flatters us.

This is a protracted run of bad form. How can you argue with that?

[dkw]

That's 2 results. Nothing like the recent run of home form. Shall I list them again?

Pikeys

Arsenal

Newcastle

Scouse c**ts

N17 Scum

Burnley

Southend

Have I missed any? Throw a few aways into the mix: Fulham, Everton, Roma, and add a few more both home and away we were fortunate to win and it's blatantly obvious that our current league positon flatters us.

This is a protracted run of bad form. How can you argue with that?

im not arguing thats its not a poor run, im just pointing out weve had similar runs under most of our other managers. we were sh*t yesterday but i remember joses team being sh*t v leciester in the cup and barely scraping through 4-3.

[true-blue-jay]

We were getting some terrible results during Grant's reign as well when Clarke was still here. I mean, anyone remember the two 4-4 draws against Villa and Spurs(for example)? You simply should win if you score four goals in a match. Especially if you score the 4-3 goal just minutes before full time or if you lead the match four times.

terrible results?

okay a draw against a team that beat us 2-0 earlier in the season and were the better side in the 4-4 is a bad result?

u mug

scolari has done alot worse than grant

plus clarke wasnt a massive part of chelsea's management last season as henk ten cate was bought in as grants right hand man

SCOLARI IS JUST sh*t

GET HIM OUT

[dkw]

terrible results?

okay a draw against a team that beat us 2-0 earlier in the season and were the better side in the 4-4 is a bad result?

u mug

scolari has done alot worse than grant

plus clarke wasnt a massive part of chelsea's management last season as henk ten cate was bought in as grants right hand man

SCOLARI IS JUST sh*t

GET HIM OUT

whats the point in calling him a mug? because hes got a differing opinion to you? reign it in mate, no need for that. and you forgot to mention the 1-1 at home to bolton and fulham, and losing to burnley in the cup. you mug.

[nickwus]

I am NOT calling for Scolari's exit...merely recognizing that trends tend have a basis of facts behind them whether one recognizes them or not.

The breaking of the last link to JM's approach sounds like the key to me.

No one is there that can remind the players of what they were doing under JM, that they are not now under Phil.

Without that, we need another solution.

Nick

[Lofty]

terrible results?

okay a draw against a team that beat us 2-0 earlier in the season and were the better side in the 4-4 is a bad result?

u mug

scolari has done alot worse than grant

plus clarke wasnt a massive part of chelsea's management last season as henk ten cate was bought in as grants right hand man

SCOLARI IS JUST sh*t

GET HIM OUT

No mate. Scolari isn't JUST sh*t. Scolari is a World Cup winning manager with no hands-on experience of the Premier League prior to this season.

A post like yours, on the other hand. Now that really is JUST sh*t.

[Maksimov]

terrible results?

okay a draw against a team that beat us 2-0 earlier in the season and were the better side in the 4-4 is a bad result?

u mug

I'm not sure who pissed in your pint, but I can assure you it wasn't me. :P

Villa had five shots on target, yet they scored four goals. We lead the game twice and had a one man advantage for most of the second half. AT HOME!

I'm not Scolari's biggest fan(I've said it many times that I never wanted him at Chelsea) but sacking him now just wouldn't make sense. Who exactly would we appoint as our manager? It's not like there are masses of top class managers queuing outside Stamford Bridge at the moment. And even if we could immediately replace Scolari with a top class manager, there's no guarantee that the new manager could do any better.

[Star]

We can debate all we like, but the harsh fact is ALL the succesfull sides in English football history, those that have dominated for a short period or a decade have had a Manager controlling everything on the playing side and a board who backed him when it mattered and had people structuring finances to maintain their big club status.

Could you ever see Bill Shankley, Bob Paisley etc etc etc at Liverpool, Ferguson at Man United, Wenger, George Graham etc at Arsenal, Brian Clough at Forest and Derby being undermined ?

We WERE in a position with shed loads of cash to do the same and with Jose Mourinho a man to create a dynasty. I rumbled on and on, especially here on these forums that I didn't want Roman's cash but once we had it using it in the right way we should be able to dominate for years in the right hands.

The summer we signed Ballack and Shevchenko was the moment it all went up in smoke. Roman, Kenyon, whoever made the decision are to blame, certainaly not Jose, who wanted neither.

The dodgy results that followed, the build up to the greatest Manager in our history losing faith with all above him, the unrest in the dressing room, with players on less money than those arriving etc etc

The exceptions to recent times are Blackburn and Leeds, both who won the league, seemed in a position to dominate and had people in the boardroom or in control with no business nous at all.

UNTIL we get people in charge who know what they are doing and let the Manager control things we will NEVER have a sustained period of success.

At the moment, we are in a domino effect, with more chance of becoming a Blackburn or Leeds than a Manchester United or Liverpool.

TYPICAL CHELSEA !

[loz]

I think the whole hope for a dynasty under Jose was a lost cause no matter what happened elsewhere. I never expected Jose to stay with us for anything like 10 years irrespective of results. I doubt he will ever be at any club for more than 5 seasons.

However that aside I agree entirely that a manager has to have absolute control over the playing side.

[ozboy]

The match against ManU is the true test of our chances this season. That's all there is to it.

[Star]

im not arguing thats its not a poor run, im just pointing out weve had similar runs under most of our other managers. we were sh*t yesterday but i remember joses team being sh*t v leciester in the cup and barely scraping through 4-3.

That CARLING cup game against Leicester was indeed remarkable Shevchenko scored the equalizer with 3 minutes to go ! :D

[ethicalstrategy]

im not arguing thats its not a poor run, im just pointing out weve had similar runs under most of our other managers. we were sh*t yesterday but i remember joses team being sh*t v leciester in the cup and barely scraping through 4-3.

It might have been Jose's team but he wasn't managing it. That was Grant.

We are obviously going backwards. Losing to Barnsley last year in the cup and Spurs in the CC final, going out on pens to Burnley and now struggling against Southend. As opposed to winning the CC twice and the FA Cup once and only going out to Premiership opposition.

[Chippy]

It might have been Jose's team but he wasn't managing it. That was Grant.

We are obviously going backwards. Losing to Barnsley last year in the cup and Spurs in the CC final, going out on pens to Burnley and now struggling against Southend. As opposed to winning the CC twice and the FA Cup once and only going out to Premiership opposition.

I think you need to look at the stats at the end of the season for a fair indication as to if we have gone backwards,

last season measured against the one before we went backwards in the two domestic cups as you have said but we were closer to the title and reached our first CL final...forwards I think in that competition after getting past a team that had put us out twice before.

we are not out of the FA Cup and we are 2nd in the Premiership so unless the CC has taken huge priority I dont see how we have gone backwards yet.

I see what you say about lower league opposition but how many different measuring sticks to we have to use? why dont we look at the trophy count (if any) and the football we are playing come May and just try and get some enjoyment from the ride on the way.

I did that last year and even with the heartbreak of that penalty shoot out, I enjoyed the season.

edit, I spelled heartbreak like handbrake :D

Edited January 5, 2009 by Chippy