Curious

[octville]

I am just very curious. What is it that suddenly make the hated Scousers click?

Ok, we lost both home and away without scoring against them, but to have them thumping everyone every week is unbelievable, to say the least.

5-0 against perennial Spanish title contender, 4-1 against Manure who was perceived not able to do wrong until they started collapsing (hehehehe)... and now another 5-0 over Villa ( to win by such a margin against a 10-man Villa is not an easy feat).

Is it because of the Benitez's staying factor? I am very envious of their current form, with Torres and Gerrard firing on all cylinders.

Gus Hiddink may be orchestrating a mini-revival but let's not kid ourselves that we were lucky that Juventus did not snatch an away goal at the Bridge and our opposition in the last few games were not the best teams, starting with Villa's falling form.

It was blatantly obvious when against Spurs, we were wracked by slopping defending and a lack of pace in attack. Gomes was only tested once by Drogba in the 1st half, followed by JT and Alex's questioning, late in the proceedings.

It is still early days for Hiddink, considering that this was a squad inherited from Mourinho and a major overhaul is in the cards.

Sorry guys.. Liverpool is going to end our league and CL hopes. The FA cup will be a bonus.

[Lofty]

why can't we be like Liverpool?

I can't be bothered with the rest of this bollox. Those few words quoted are surely in themself a banning offence.

[evissy]

I can't be bothered with the rest of this bollox. Those few words quoted are surely in themself a banning offence.

Agreed.

[loz]

OK asking why we can't be more like Liverpool is a litle like wondering why you can't be mroe like Pete Sutcliffe however, other than that, it is a fair post.

I don't think Liverpool's form has anything to do with Benitez's 'staying factor' - after all he has been there for a long time already and they are have been prone to slumps in form through his tenure. They have hit form at the moment but there is nomagical reason for it, all most clubs tend to hit a bit of form at periods in a season and unfortunately this is happening to Liverpool at the moment. Added to that is the fact that they are a team of players who have under achieved in the league for season after season after season and that appears to have installed more desire in them to win the title than our squad, which maybe has too many players with titles already won, has shown all season.

[Star]

A passing through comment on an island !

What we are seeing with Liverpool is now with Rick Parry confirmed as going, Benitez is having 'full control of proceedings' as Ferguson has at Man Utd, Wenger has at Arsenal and all the successful managers in history in England have, thinking Clough, Paisley etc etc here.

It, with a long term contract, breeds confidence and long term stability. Under Jose Mourinho we had that and were the best.

We are in a position when we don't know who will be in charge next season, even more mental Hiddink is being consulted over transfers, if he is as we are led to believe a stop gap, well, it will be another mad summer.

[andy]

I agree, it is a fair post, except the statement about being more like them...rather be relegated than be like them...

The comments on their form need discussing, there last 3 matches have been stunning... like most I think ti is a temporary blip, but fair play to them against some major opposition you cant argue with it no matter how much we hate them.

Just hoping it ends before champions league starts.

[Blue Sun Tzu]

Loz - perhaps this thread needs to be deleted. All it'll take is 1 scouser to spot it and it'll be all over their forums like a cheap (shell) suit. We'll be laughing stock.

[dkw]

ridiculous thread, started by a ridiculous poster, strange we havent seen him for a while yet he returns full flow at the first signs of a loss. whether his thoughts are correct, do you think liverpool fans a month ago where asking why they cant be more like us, or the mancs?weve lost one in the last 8 ( i think) hardly terrible form considering the poor season and circumstances. i really wish i hadnt taken octville of ignore now.

Edited March 23, 2009 by dkw

[Mr Chelsea]

Sorry guys.. Liverpool is going to end our league and CL hopes. The FA cup will be a bonus.

nowt like been positive is they

you carry on thinking that way, as for the rest of us its not over till till the fat lady sings

[ethicalstrategy]

Executive decision - I've amended the stupid title to reflect the actual post.

As far as the question goes - They have hit form at the right time. Hopefully the international break will put a halt to that. Torres usually gets injured while with the Spanish squad. It should be about now that Gerrard "gets injured" and misses the England games.

[Lofty]

loz, Star and andy - you give this twat a credibility he doesn't deserve by bothering to address any of the points he's made. Look at the title:

octville.

By octville.

That sentence I quoted is a description, and a piss-take if ever there was one. With his well known tendency to appear only after a bad result, who is he really? I strongly suspect the "our" in the last sentence should more accurately read "their".

Because there is no way in this world that octville is a Chelsea fan.

Go on octville, admit it. You're on a wind-up, aren't you.

Then f**k off back to whatever f**king hole you crawled out of.

[moi]

loz, Star and andy - you give this twat a credibility he doesn't deserve by bothering to address any of the points he's made. Look at the title:

octville.

By octville.

That sentence I quoted is a description, and a piss-take if ever there was one. With his well known tendency to appear only after a bad result, who is he really? I strongly suspect the "our" in the last sentence should more accurately read "their".

Because there is no way in this world that octville is a Chelsea fan.

Go on octville, admit it. You're on a wind-up, aren't you.

Then f**k off back to whatever f**king hole you crawled out of.

Also, this thread bamboozled me totally because I misread the subtitle:

What makes the hated Scousers dicks?

Well, thought I, why state the obvious!

Edited March 23, 2009 by moi

[octville]

Agreed. It ain't over till it's over.. you never know when it comes to cup ties like the Champion's League.

So I will still support Chelsea no matter how slim our chances are against an in-form Scouser.

I would like to clarify myself and apologise to any Chelsea loving fans for any misunderstanding.

I wanted to ask why can't we WIN like Liverpool? Suddenly, they are firing on full cylinders when they were struggling even to beat Wigan. What has truly turned for them? And what must we do to emulate that form?

Avram Grant was a stop-gap measure, Big Phil was truly worthy of only a championship managerial appointment and Hiddink is another stop-gap solution unless proven otherwise.

Hiddink is probably second to Mourinho, the effervescent No.1 Choice but he is definitely the right candidate, sans the Special One. It will take time, stability and squad renewal to see significant improvement henceforth.

We know that Chelsea's 3rd place in the Premiership is enviable by many, but poor in recent standard and disguised under disappointing results like 0-1, 0-2 to the Scousers, 1-1, 0-3 to Manure, not winning a match against Spud in home or away and losing 1-3 to mediocre Roma in the Champion's league.

The causes are very well-expounded.

1. Managerial changes over 2 seasons

2. Ageing players

3. Ageing players who think they have won everything already i.e. no hunger, prima donna

4. Poor replacement signing. ( e.g. Robben's departure left a gap)

5. Questionable signing like Mineiro, Pizarro or Ivanovic (why sign for the sake of signing?)

6. Too much pressure from hungry fans like myself ( this I admit)

7. Players who have questionable qualities ( when did Anelka score against a top opposition?)

8. Poor foresight from management. Remember we were linked to Torres before Liverpool took him?

And if these were not the truths, I present another piece of evidence in the statistics of London derbies

where Chelsea is at the bottom without winning a single match !

Spurs P-7 W-2 D-4 L-1 F-9 A-7 Pts 10

Arsenal 7-2-4-1-9-7-10

Fulham 7-2-3-2-7-8-9

West Ham 6-2-2-2-6-7-9

Chelsea 5-0-3-2-5-7-3

You can ask for me to be removed from this forum, but you cannot subdue realities just like paper cannot keep a fire.

On the positives, I prefer Hiddink to stay beyond this season, make a summer clear-out and have a good pre-season. On current factors, I do not see Chelsea progressing beyond the FA Cup Final but if Manure's slip is more permanent, we may be in it for a chance.

We are certainly not in crisis mode if we moderate our expectation. 3rd placing, a place in the FA Cup final and a good performance against Liverpool in the Champion's league will be acceptable results for me.

[Mike O]

Agreed. It ain't over till it's over.. you never know when it comes to cup ties like the Champion's League.

So I will still support Chelsea no matter how slim our chances are against an in-form Scouser.

I would like to clarify myself and apologise to any Chelsea loving fans for any misunderstanding.

I wanted to ask why can't we WIN like Liverpool? Suddenly, they are firing on full cylinders when they were struggling even to beat Wigan. What has truly turned for them? And what must we do to emulate that form?

Avram Grant was a stop-gap measure, Big Phil was truly worthy of only a championship managerial appointment and Hiddink is another stop-gap solution unless proven otherwise.

Hiddink is probably second to Mourinho, the effervescent No.1 Choice but he is definitely the right candidate, sans the Special One. It will take time, stability and squad renewal to see significant improvement henceforth.

We know that Chelsea's 3rd place in the Premiership is enviable by many, but poor in recent standard and disguised under disappointing results like 0-1, 0-2 to the Scousers, 1-1, 0-3 to Manure, not winning a match against Spud in home or away and losing 1-3 to mediocre Roma in the Champion's league.

The causes are very well-expounded.

1. Managerial changes over 2 seasons

2. Ageing players

3. Ageing players who think they have won everything already i.e. no hunger, prima donna

4. Poor replacement signing. ( e.g. Robben's departure left a gap)

5. Questionable signing like Mineiro, Pizarro or Ivanovic (why sign for the sake of signing?)

6. Too much pressure from hungry fans like myself ( this I admit)

7. Players who have questionable qualities ( when did Anelka score against a top opposition?)

8. Poor foresight from management. Remember we were linked to Torres before Liverpool took him?

And if these were not the truths, I present another piece of evidence in the statistics of London derbies

where Chelsea is at the bottom without winning a single match !

Spurs P-7 W-2 D-4 L-1 F-9 A-7 Pts 10

Arsenal 7-2-4-1-9-7-10

Fulham 7-2-3-2-7-8-9

West Ham 6-2-2-2-6-7-9

Chelsea 5-0-3-2-5-7-3

You can ask for me to be removed from this forum, but you cannot subdue realities just like paper cannot keep a fire.

On the positives, I prefer Hiddink to stay beyond this season, make a summer clear-out and have a good pre-season. On current factors, I do not see Chelsea progressing beyond the FA Cup Final but if Manure's slip is more permanent, we may be in it for a chance.

We are certainly not in crisis mode if we moderate our expectation. 3rd placing, a place in the FA Cup final and a good performance against Liverpool in the Champion's league will be acceptable results for me.

And your point is?

[TheWestwayWonder]

octville.

By octville.

That sentence I quoted is a description, and a piss-take if ever there was one.

That was the first thing that popped into my mind. I had to hit 'view this post' because I thought this might be some bizarre work of self parody.

But as ever with the poster and his carefully laid out arguments, I felt like the point was completely missed. Three results, and its completely forgotten that they lost deservedly to Boro a few weeks ago. That is, a side that will be in the championship next year ran riot because the brilliant Rafa Benitez decided to play a career CB as a right fullback. Rick Parry didnt do that.

[friendly-rivalry]

And your point is?

i was reading after the champions league draw that Liverpool and Chelsea have played 24 times in all comps since benitez arrived at liverpool, and in that time chelsea have had 4 managers. I dont think there can be any doubt that the instability is one of the biggest reasons that you lot have had inconsistency this term.

United and liverpool have also had that same inconsistency this year, and cannot be attributed to this same reason, but liverpool have had many behind the scenes issues, and also having to live up to a massive pressure to win the league, and i think united have got a few more ego's than their great teams of the last decade have which causes its own problems.

I still think this season the league could be won by any one of the current top three, although i beleive that the international break has come at a great time for united.

[friendly-rivalry]

That was the first thing that popped into my mind. I had to hit 'view this post' because I thought this might be some bizarre work of self parody.

But as ever with the poster and his carefully laid out arguments, I felt like the point was completely missed. Three results, and its completely forgotten that they lost deservedly to Boro a few weeks ago. That is, a side that will be in the championship next year ran riot because the brilliant Rafa Benitez decided to play a career CB as a right fullback. Rick Parry didnt do that.

that same CB played at right back against united and they won 4-1, so its too simple to put it that way. The way i see it is that the Madrid game became a must win for them as at the time, following the boro result, they had given up on the leaue and defeat to real would be the end of their season, so they put everything into it, that then meant a big big win, and a huge confidence boost, which they carried into the united game.

If united had beaten fulham, i think there is every chance liverpool would have drawn or lost yesterday as they wouldnt have had the beleif. I dont think your result against spurs was a factor to them as realistically for them this season, Shankly's old addage is true. First is First, second is nowhere.

[sexelk]

Loz - perhaps this thread needs to be deleted. All it'll take is 1 scouser to spot it and it'll be all over their forums like a cheap (shell) suit. We'll be laughing stock.

haha :D

[Dorset]

It is difficult to avoid being accused of sour grapes when discussing the Scousers in any shape or form, but that is part of the problem in so far as it is always well nigh impossible to be objective where they’re concerned. Personally, I prefer to look at the opposition for the three matches in question and state categorically that they were all heading for a fall sooner rather than later. That’s not to say Benitez doesn’t deserve praise for pinpointing the over reliance placed on Vidic in the United team, nor does it excuse the self indulgence Ferguson usually gets away with when he selects his midfield players.

In addition, Real under Ramos were readymade for a Liverpool team holding a one nil advantage from the away leg and Martin O’Neill’s team has been an accident waiting to happen for a month or more when you consider that Laursen has been out for a while and Reo-Coker consistently does more harm than good in terms of his tackling. Also applicable is O’Neill’s refusal to give the speedy Delfouneso any sort of chance ahead of the ponderous Carew and Heskey and, taking it all into consideration, you can see why a fixture list that never lies often bestows the odd gift or two.

The number of goals scored is more of a concern, but even here they have got an incredibly generous number of penalties of late, whereas Barry’s equally justifiable claim for just one at the weekend gets waved away and subsequently forgotten about in the rush to praise the [as Andy Gray described them] ’brilliance’ of the Gerrard twosome. The idea that playing the captain in a forward role behind Torres is going to surprise teams for the rest of the season is bizarre, as is the notion that they will always score a shed load of goals against the better teams. You might just as well say that Bayern are an unstoppable goal machine and that the bookies have got it wrong when it comes to the Champions League odds for the four teams in our half of the draw.

No, what we are seeing here is a serious and [for them] worrying decline in United’s form, matched by a revival in Benitez’s fortunes, kick-started by something other than a radical change in team personnel or tactics. If we’re lucky [and closing our ears at the same time] the Media will hype the Mickeys into something they are not - a process that’s already started with Richard Keys glibly placing Gerrard amongst the top three players in the world, only to establish him as runner-up to Messi after a moments deliberation. Or higher, then suggests Dion Dublin - amazing what a hat trick including two [albeit ‘brilliant’] penalties can do for your reputation, even when you are on the verge of going to court.

However, the final word on the whole subject of ‘getting carried away’ must go to Andy Gray who, when asked by Keys, “What about Chelsea, three points behind, can they still do it?â€, pondered the question as only he can, before coming up with a remarkably informative and well reasoned “Noâ€. I’m surprised he didn’t qualify his answer with what is now a trademark commentary cliché of his…’there’s no doubt about that’…but I guess there is, so he couldn’t. There is still all to play for in my book as well, despite the setback at the weekend, because United look flakey, a three point deficit on the Scousers is nothing and, as both might find to their cost, puffed up pride always comes before a fall.

[Nibs]

There is still all to play for in my book as well, despite the setback at the weekend, because United look flakey, a three point deficit on the Scousers is nothing and, as both might find to their cost, puffed up pride always comes before a fall.

Fair points Dorset but we're hardly setting the world alight ourselves.

I might have a bit more confidence if we looked like we were capable of causing teams problems and we carried some kind of attacking threat. But we don't. Every time we play at the moment I really wouldn't put too much money on us scoring a goal.

And the days of us confidently being able to grind out 1 goal wins went the day we showed Mourinho the door.

[friendly-rivalry]

...

very good response, clearly biased, but very good none the less.

[andy]

very good response, clearly biased, but very good none the less.

Made my day !

Dorset you are so biased. :D

[Dorset]

Fair points Dorset but we're hardly setting the world alight ourselves.

I might have a bit more confidence if we looked like we were capable of causing teams problems and we carried some kind of attacking threat. But we don't. Every time we play at the moment I really wouldn't put too much money on us scoring a goal.

And the days of us confidently being able to grind out 1 goal wins went the day we showed Mourinho the door.

True, Nibs, but I’m inclined to agree with Ethical (on the Anelka thread) that we might just stumble upon the right course over the three weeks he is out. Hiddink has tried to accommodate both Didier and Anelka whenever possible, but 4-3-3 has always suited the Drog, especially when he gets decent service. Shame that Joe isn’t around to be provider at the moment, but Quaresma has something to prove and might turn in some good performances given ninety minutes. Kalou will always be hit and miss, although he does seem to get on well with his fellow Ivorian and has the ability in there somewhere. I’ve also got a great deal of time for Stoch and feel he should have had at least one full Premiership game by now, but he’s suffered manager turnaround syndrome when being on the point of getting in the team and can’t seem to get a look in anymore. Shame of the season for me…so far.

[TheWestwayWonder]

Dorset hits the nail once again. Gerrard wasnt even all that good yesterday, certainly wasnt their best midfield players, yet because of three goals, only one of which can be attributed to his skill, we are hearing about how marvelous he is. The Man Utd result I cant explain. Crushing Villa and Madrid at home, especially the latter when spotted a 2-0 lead inside 20 minutes by the officiating, was just a case of piling misery on top of an opponent that looked hapless once things went against them. Villa are in freefall at the moment, and I dont think they will even finish fifth the way things are going.

[octville]

And your point is?

make your own conclusion.. you guys get off my back !