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quality wingers win titles


pooch87

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robben, duff, ronaldo, overmars, beckham, ljungberg, giggs, kanchelskis...

All these players have been involved in title winning teams, they gave their teams a cutting edge against the closest rivals. If it wasnt for ronaldo we would have another 1 if not 2 titles in the bag. Our midfield is the second strongest in europe and proved this against the best. Our defence is rock solid with a solid keeper. We need wingers who can cross and take on defenders AND beat them. Im delighted with the zhirkov signing and hope he's played in an advanced role. I just think for the last few seasons we've been kidding ourselves with kalou (one for the future..) and malouda even though he played a blinder at the back end of last season. Leave pirlo on the heap and lets concentrate on getting a touch line hugger who can burn evra and clichy. rant over!

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I like a little more width, but it seems like we will be playing more through the middle with Carlo's style. Therefore, I'm not sure if we'll sign any wingers. if we were to pick up one of Real's rejects, i could see us looking at Van Der Vaart more than Sneijder

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I can understand your point however in this diamond formation Carlo Ancelotti uses, the natural width comes from the full backs.

It's pretty obvious we want to go 4 - 4 - 2, you guys who want wingers would like too line up something like this

-----Striker --------- Striker----

-Winger ------------------- Winger-

----- Centre --- Centre -----

Full Back -- Centre Back --- Centre Back -- Full Back

Judging from your posts you want to go that formation?

Gathering from pre-season games we are currently using this formation.

----- Striker ------- Striker -----

--------- Attacking Mid ------------

---- Centre Mid ----- Centre Mid ----

-- Defensive Mid/Deep Playermaker --

Full Back -- Cente Back - Centre Back -- Full Back

The difference is between the two for me is, Ancelotti very rarely uses wingers, why? He plays through the middle and also his full backs provide width if needed. Both formations lack the cover for the back 4 right? the cover for bombing full backs but he has hard working centre mid's like gattuso to boss the midfield which makes Pirlo have freedom to roam and provides cover for the defence if needed. Just because our 2 centre mids are not in a defensive position does not mean they won't track back. Ancelotti stated when Lampard was playing in the Attacking Mid role he said he was not like any others as he defended aswell. Fact is the diamond is a brilliant way to play, it just needs too have the right players with the right discipline.

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Should of just posted this article to save me the time to explain ::clap2::

________________________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________

Diamonds for ever as Carlo Ancelotti’s Chelsea era takes shape

For a man who freely admitted in his recent book to telling lies for his own ends, Carlo Ancelotti has been remarkably open in the past two weeks. The Italian has set out his stall for the world to see, unless it is all part of some Machiavellian plot worthy of José Mourinho.

Chelsea played in similar manner using a similar system in all four of their matches on their tour to the United States and did not experiment much in training, either.

Ancelotti is planning to start the season with a diamond in midfield, two central strikers and the hope that his most athletic full backs, José Bosingwa and Ashley Cole, can maraud up and down the touchline providing some semblance of width. The Italian may have a plan B tucked up his sleeve, but as yet even his players have no idea what it is.

Chelsea’s first XI have pretty much picked themselves for the past few seasons and, given the continuity of personnel and strictures of Ancelotti’s chosen system, there are unlikely to be any real surprises in the side to face Manchester United in the Community Shield in 11 days. Didier Drogba and Nicolas Anelka can look forward to starting together up front and the back four will look as settled as ever after John Terry and Ricardo Carvalho committed their futures to the clubs.

The only real selection issues to be resolved lie in midfield, where Ancelotti experimented considerably in the US without reaching any firm conclusions. His most significant innovation was to use Frank Lampard at the tip of the diamond, giving the England midfield player greater freedom to pour forward to score goals, although safe in the knowledge that his natural industry will not allow him to abandon his defensive duties entirely.

“Lampard is very good behind the strikers as he moves very well without the ball and works very hard defensively,†Ancelotti said. “Usually the midfield player behind the striker does not work very hard for the defence. Lampard works very hard and moves very well without the ball. I have a good group of midfield players as a lot of them can change position without problem.â€

Lampard was used as the most advanced player in a midfield three by Guus Hiddink towards the end of last season and will start the new campaign farther forward, particularly because Chelsea’s pursuit of Franck Ribéry remains unresolved and Joe Cole is out injured. Cole is the forgotten man of Stamford Bridge at the moment as he continues his rehabilitation from a second knee operation in six months, but will have taken some solace from the words of Ancelotti yesterday.

“I like football so know everything about Joe Cole,†he said. “I know all about all the top players. He’s perfect to play behind the strikers and has the maturity. He’s very good at playing in a small space and is a good dribbler. I will wait until he’s recovered from injury and then try him.â€

Ancelotti has tried Deco, Michael Essien and John Obi Mikel in the holding role over the past fortnight, with the Nigeria player likely to start the season in that position because Essien lacks positional discipline and Deco is too lightweight.

Essien’s energy can be more effective on the right of midfield, leaving a three-way fight between Michael Ballack, Florent Malouda and Yuri Zhirkov for the final position in the team, tucked in on the left. The Russia player would be the most exciting option because he has already demonstrated his attacking prowess by scoring a debut goal from the edge of the area against AC Milan in Baltimore last week.

It is still early days whoever is selected, but Ancelotti has already made considerable progress given that he has been in the job for less than one month.

________________________________________________________________________________

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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/foo...icle6731247.ece

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I'm not saying the diamond cant or wont work i just think that the squad is lacking somebody who can pick up the ball with pace and run at players, and take them on. When teams come to the bridge and park the bus like most do these days its this type of player who could make all the difference between a frustrating home draw and a vital 3 points.

These types of players are normally wingers but that does'nt mean they have to hug the touch line. You could play them at the tip of the diamond behind the front 2 or out wide depending on the circumstances. This is the type of player we still need, this is our 'marquee' signing. Its not another centre forward its someone with flair and pace who can make things happen by themselves.

Currently Maluada,Kalou and Cole(skill but lacking pace to get away from players) are falling short in this department. I hav'nt seen enough of Zhirkov to comment but understand he doulbes up as a left back which makes me feel he too may not quite fit that bill.

I'd like a Ribery or a Pato in the squad, if they cost the earth i still say bring back Robben.

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for the winged wonder teams you name i`ll throw barca of the past 2 seasons or so back at you. its generally regarded they have played the best, most exciting football in europe yet dont have any conventional wingers. they play with messi and henry at the monet, but both come inside coninually and theres rarely, if ever, any crosses from the byline.

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I'm not saying the diamond cant or wont work i just think that the squad is lacking somebody who can pick up the ball with pace and run at players, and take them on. When teams come to the bridge and park the bus like most do these days its this type of player who could make all the difference between a frustrating home draw and a vital 3 points.

These types of players are normally wingers but that does'nt mean they have to hug the touch line. You could play them at the tip of the diamond behind the front 2 or out wide depending on the circumstances. This is the type of player we still need, this is our 'marquee' signing. Its not another centre forward its someone with flair and pace who can make things happen by themselves.

Currently Maluada,Kalou and Cole(skill but lacking pace to get away from players) are falling short in this department. I hav'nt seen enough of Zhirkov to comment but understand he doulbes up as a left back which makes me feel he too may not quite fit that bill.

I'd like a Ribery or a Pato in the squad, if they cost the earth i still say bring back Robben.

Pato is the man, but funny you should say Robben. I was speaking to a mate who works for the 'magic sign' in Spain, he's a gooner and decided to wind me up when the Terry saga was on.

He told me that we were going to re-sign Gudjohnson and Robben so to re-create the blues brothers in JT's new games room in his pad!

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Barca are an exception. Every attacking player in that team has exceptional on the ball skills, ability to hold the ball in tight situations etc. Hence they can afford to go centrally. We dont have that. None of our players can keep the ball at their feet when surrounded in midfield or show quick feet and get out of a situation. That is why we need to play wide, stretch the opposition so that more space is created in the center.

Simple fact is if you have Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, Henry in your team, you can afford to play without genuine wingers. If you have Essien, Drogba, Lampard, Ballack, Malouda, Mikel you will struggle to break teams down who choke the midfield area with bodies, without wide players.

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Barca are an exception. Every attacking player in that team has exceptional on the ball skills, ability to hold the ball in tight situations etc. Hence they can afford to go centrally. We dont have that. None of our players can keep the ball at their feet when surrounded in midfield or show quick feet and get out of a situation. That is why we need to play wide, stretch the opposition so that more space is created in the center.

Simple fact is if you have Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, Henry in your team, you can afford to play without genuine wingers. If you have Essien, Drogba, Lampard, Ballack, Malouda, Mikel you will struggle to break teams down who choke the midfield area with bodies, without wide players.

really? maybe you should go watch the matches from the semi final again and come back and tell me which team created the most chances....

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Outside of the two Dutchies at Madrid Scott mentions, I think a player who we should look at to fit this bill and improve us is David Silva.

This is a guy who can play centrally or as a winger, and is both young and talented. Based on where he has played for Valencia in the past, I think he ticks a number of boxes

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I don't see why it was so necessary to change the 4-3-3. I was actually growing fond of it. Our midfield was good and solid enough to maintain presence, even if it only had three men, and it suited our best player (Lampard) perfectly, whereas we seem to be doing this diamond for the pure sake of it, because it seems to be 'classic Ancelotti' tactic.

We should play to our players' strengths, Lampard has been the best midfielder in the Premier League for a few years in his slightly advanced central midfield position for a reason. If we stick him next to Essien (box-to-box), they have and will make a great partnership.

The only problem is that we have Ballack and Deco and possibly Mikel wanting to play in the same position...

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really? maybe you should go watch the matches from the semi final again and come back and tell me which team created the most chances....

i have watched the matches many times over and if you read my post correctly you'd find that your retort is sightly out of place. i never implied we struggle to create chances against teams like barca. its the stokes and fulhams i'm more worried about.

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I don't quite understand what you're basing your concern on. Last season was very much a tale of two managers, Scolari - who led us to a position where we where there for the taking by all and sundry, and Guus Hiddink under who's management we were robbed of a place in the Champions League final at the very least. It's quite simple, if our Scolari error performances had been anywhere near as consistent as the performances with Hiddink in charge, we'd have run away with the Premier League.

Next season, new manager, new ball game.

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i have watched the matches many times over and if you read my post correctly you'd find that your retort is sightly out of place. i never implied we struggle to create chances against teams like barca. its the stokes and fulhams i'm more worried about.

that wasnt my point. you said this initially...

Simple fact is if you have Messi, Iniesta, Xavi, Henry in your team, you can afford to play without genuine wingers. If you have Essien, Drogba, Lampard, Ballack, Malouda, Mikel you will struggle to break teams down who choke the midfield area with bodies, without wide players.

yet the semi final at the bridge was completely the opposite to what you said. they barely created anything against us, both home and away. yet we created plenty against them

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before we won the title, people would say "442 is what wins titles", frothing at the mouth to express their displeasure at any other system.

these kind of statements are depressingly narrow minded.

having better players, a quality manager and luck with injuries is what wins titles.

the style of play or system used does not matter, so long as there are the right players to make it work.

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That Times article has gotten me quite baffled with our midfield.

It says that it seems Mikel will play the holding midfield role with Essien more suited to the right and Lampard at the tip. Then Malouda and Zhirkov battling for the left.

-----------Mikel

--Essien---------Zhirkov/Malouda

-----------Lampard

That seems simple enough, with probably Zhirkov getting the nod because of his £18million price tag.

But throw Joey Cole into the equation and it all goes pear shaped.

For me, Essien, Lampard and Zhirkov are shoe-ins, with Ancelotti wanting Joey at the tip of the diamond.

-----------Essien

--Lampard------Zhirkov

------------Joey

But personally, Essien would be wasted playing in the holding role. His fitness and speed would make him useful on the right. So Mikel would be back in.

----------Mikel

--Essien--------Zhirkov

----------Joey

Errr, Lampard? He would surely be picked over Joey Cole. Which makes Joey nothing more than a reserve.

Ancelotti has a tricky decision to make, But to be fair, it's a good place to be in.

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yet the semi final at the bridge was completely the opposite to what you said. they barely created anything against us, both home and away. yet we created plenty against them

Yeah imagine if Barca could not create enough chances against a disciplined and structured Chelsea side going through the center, how difficult it will be for us to break similar defense minded teams playing in the same fashion...as we found out last season against what, Newcastle, Sp*rs, Hull, Everton, Fulham etc etc.

I know Scolari was a disaster, but what about before that? Did we not have too many draws the seasons before Scolari when we didnt win the title? And is it a coincidence that we have not won the title ever since we lost Robben and Duff and failed to replace them?

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Did we create any chances against Barca or we were just plain sh*t; parked the bus. I love Guus but that game basically showed how inferior we were . I was thinking changes were

going to be made but I guess not so if unfortunately we run into them or even Madrid we would park the bus again.

Makes me wonder if this team can actually win the league & guess what at the moment NO!

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We can quite seemlessly switch from 4-4-2 diamond to 4-3-3 wing-play if needed. We have the players for it anyway. If Carlo has any brain on him he will use it in home games against "we've just parked the bus here" teams or in tough games in general.

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I'd say we ditch our defensive midfielder against those teams and play two strikers, two wingers and two center mids, one of them (Lamps) also in an attacking role.

Something like:

....essien....lampard....

joey........................zhircov

....Drogba.....Anelka....

Why do we need a dedicated defensive midfielder against a team who have no intention to attack?

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Did we create any chances against Barca or we were just plain sh*t; parked the bus. I love Guus but that game basically showed how inferior we were . I was thinking changes were

going to be made but I guess not so if unfortunately we run into them or even Madrid we would park the bus again.

Makes me wonder if this team can actually win the league & guess what at the moment NO!

parked the bus? we created at least 8 chances in the second leg, and had 2 excellent ones in the first leg. if you honestly believe we parked the bus in the home leg then you are an idiot.

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one thing people seem to miss when talkin about formations is the players themselves. footballers now are so much more inteliigent on the pitch with regards to covering, positional changes by the opposition, reacting to substitutions etc than ever before. i fully expect us to take to the field with the players knowing what to do should changes be needed to either their position, their opposition or even when players are sent off.

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We stifled Barca and hit them on the break. We created many more chances both home and away and deserved to go through without doubt.

Other teams though try and smother the midfield against us and have come away from the bridge with points they should'nt have which is what we are talking about.

To me the formation should always be flexible, something lacking under Scolari. We could and should be able to play horses for courses depending on opposition, home or away etc. For this to work we need the right personel. Its the out and out 'winger' type player that our squad is currently missing IMO irrelevent of formation.

Moving back to Barca its not as if Henry is'nt known for pulling wide to create space to then cut back inside and Messi is exactly the type of player we are talking about. I did'nt mention him earlier because whats the point.(he aint leaving Barca).

Talking about Barca again has anybody seen the new Sky HD advert with the handball in super slow motion?

AAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHH I was just getting over that night :angry: :violent090:

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