I was going to post this in the Wigan game thread but it seems a wider issue

All of Essien's recent quality performances have come in the DM role. Last season I hated seeing him there because of the energy he could give us going forward which is exactly what we needed when playing that crap 4-5-1 formation. The 4-4-2 diamond relies more on holding possession further up the pitch which is why I think it's time we think about moving him back to DM permanently in this formation. He was immense v Spurs and his tackle on Lennon in that game sums up why he is fitted to it

I'd much rather see Mikel further forward because of his ability to retain possession, his superior passing and the fact that he is far more composed on the ball than Essien. Of course they can play in the same midfield but I think we'd be a lot more comfortable with Essien's power and pace covering for maybe a couple of Mikel's losses of possession than Mikel's niggling fouls covering for Essien's losses of possession. (I don't want this to turn into another Ballack arguement so if you think he is more suited than Mikel, fair enough :P )

I think Essien in DM is a must for the dippers game

Where all that leaves 2 of Malouda/Zhirkov/J. Cole, I'm not sure. I think Lamps could do a better job dropping back to the left hand side of the diamond which would leave Cole and maybe Zhirkov fighting for the role at the tip as I don't think Malouda could play there. But in saying that it would be unfair to drop Malouda as he has been playing well of late.

We certainly can't complain of a lack of options in midfield and if I was in Ancelotti's shoes I'd have to go with (1st choice on left)...

J Cole/Zhirkov/Lamps

Lamps/Malouda -------- Mikel/Ballack

Essien

Edited September 28, 200916 yr by sexelk

I wouldn't play Essien at DM for the Liverpool game for the reasons I stated in the Wigan thread. If he plays there our whole game goes down the right hand side. Ballack should play there with Essien playing ahead of him alongside Lampard.

It is either that or Essien is giving the role of keeping Gerrard quiet as he did to great effect in the game last season.

I think that's the key for the game but you'd be taking 2 players out of our attacking game by giving him that job as well as playing a DM

Not necessarily - you could argue that you don't need a dedicated DM as much if you keep gerrard quiet beause that is the area of the field he operates most in. That isn't to say you would entirely neglect defensive midfield duties. Ballack would still have a defensive responsibility but it wouldn't be entirely defensive.

Perhaps but dippers game aside, under the diamond formation I don't think Essien is composed enough on the ball to work effectively further forward

If he isn't coposed enough on the ball further forward then there is even less argument for plying him in the holding role - the last thing we need is for the holding player to buckle under pressure and lose possession cheaply.

It's not like he is woefully bad at holding possession. His stand out performances this season have come at DM

When you're playing with 2 strikers you don't need his direct style so much. I think his energies are better placed breaking up opposition play and getting us going forward again

i dont really get why always diamond get into the discussions. why we cant use 4-2-2-2 like

I think with this our attack can be more lethal and fast...... Its my personal opinion ... Suggestions are welcome!!

i have been using this formation in fifa 09 from year or so ..... i know there is lot of defference between a ps and field. But its not impossible i hope.....

Edited September 28, 200916 yr by K.ing

essien seems to be able to play anywhere on the pitch, like the rest he had a bad day at the office on saturday

essien is probably at his best when he is driving forward, his power and pace seems to frighten defenders

lets face it Mikel has been a disappointment this season. I know people argue he is improving but presence aside he lacks the urgency required to play the DM role and the composure & vision to play further forward. When you compare him with other players in that role e.g. Fletcher, Diaby, Palacios, Mascherano, the Dutch guy that plays for City even Diarra at Real Madrid; Mikel needs a rocket up his ass. Dont get me wrong he has the odd good game which far between but for a guy who studied Makelele alongside Diarra, we all know who learnt. Wish we had Melo.

I would deploy Ballack in that role & if he is out play Essien there.

i would take mikel over every 1 of those players

he has never had a chance to play further forward. not scoring goals can't be an argument for not playing him further forward because lamps only has 2 so far. he has went close a couple of times as well this season. his passing ability is better than any of those players you mentioned plus essien or ballack

I have mentioned many a time before that Ballack is the ideal candidate for the defensive midfield role (if needed) Essien is good there buty is so much more effective in an attacking role. As for Mikel, I think he offers too little to often to secure a permanant strating place in any position.

lets face it Mikel has been a disappointment this season. I know people argue he is improving but presence aside he lacks the urgency required to play the DM role and the composure & vision to play further forward. When you compare him with other players in that role e.g. Fletcher, Diaby, Palacios, Mascherano, the Dutch guy that plays for City even Diarra at Real Madrid; Mikel needs a rocket up his ass. Dont get me wrong he has the odd good game which far between but for a guy who studied Makelele alongside Diarra, we all know who learnt. Wish we had Melo.

I would deploy Ballack in that role & if he is out play Essien there.

Totally agree ducavis. I think the problem is that a lot was expected of Mikel. We battled with Man Utd to sign him. Since then we have been scratching our heads in exactly what to do with him!

He is not good enough in the defensive midfielder role. And he doesn't appear to have what's required to play him further forward - lack of goal threat, lack of assists etc. His main attribute (other than his physical abilities and strength - a seemingly must have for the modern day footballer) is being able to receive a pass and make a pass - normally 5-10 yards and normally sideways.

Maybe I'm being a tad harsh, but I'm sorry, I just don't think Mikel has enough in his game to merit being picked on a regular basis - certainly not when we have a fully fit squad.

Think Essien is the only choice for DM against the scousers. We need to isolate Gerrard and keep him quiet and right now Essien is the only one I trust to be up for this.

in that case MHL_blue simply get Essien to man mark Gerrard.

in that case MHL_blue simply get Essien to man mark Gerrard.

Would be a better solution, yes :D

I think we have looked most effective when we have played with a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-2-1 formation.

In the first I'd have Essien and Ballack as the 2 with Malouda and Anelka either side of Frank and Drogba up top.

In the second I'd have Essien, Lampard and Ballack as the three and Anelka and Malouda behind Drogba. If Deco was fit then he could replace either Malouda or Anelka in either formation.

The main thing is to get Frank away from that tip of the diamond position so that he can get on the ball more.

With the fullbacks bombing on we need the midfield to cover. In the 4-2-3-1 it needs to be the two holding players. In the 4-3-2-1 it has to be the two wider of the 3 that drop in and cover.

I still haven't worked up the courage to watch saturday's match but from what I've been told and read it seems that we got exposed a lot with Bosingwa and Cole caught up field.

i would take mikel over every 1 of those players

he has never had a chance to play further forward. not scoring goals can't be an argument for not playing him further forward because lamps only has 2 so far. he has went close a couple of times as well this season. his passing ability is better than any of those players you mentioned plus essien or ballack

Sorry mate i just cant agree on any of that.

For starters lets not even try to compare Lampard and Mikel. Those words do not belong in the same universe, let along same sentence. Honestly stop it now and dont get me started on his shooting.

Mikel can pass the ball. But only if its ten yards. Ideally sideways or backwards, but occasionally forwards too. To claim he is a better passer of the ball than Ballack is absurd. Ditto Diarra and Mascherano.

Honestly, im in the minority on here i know but i think but i think he is a fraud of a football player.

I admit i was fooled at first and thought he was something special - but i soon saw the light. And slowly but surely i think others are coming around now too.

All he has to do is stick his ass out, turn and shield the ball from a player and then pass it back to JT and he seems to get 15 MOM votes and comments like 'controlled the game' and 'old head on young shoulders'.

Im actually going to stop now because i could go on and on but to summarise i dont want him anywhere near the first team any time soon, certainly not in the important games anyway - he slows the play down he gives away stupid fouls in stupid places and as soon as we face an half decent opposing player in a free role behind the striker(s) he is out foxed, and ultimately outclassed.

And we usually lose.

Totally agree ducavis. I think the problem is that a lot was expected of Mikel. We battled with Man Utd to sign him. Since then we have been scratching our heads in exactly what to do with him!

He is not good enough in the defensive midfielder role. And he doesn't appear to have what's required to play him further forward - lack of goal threat, lack of assists etc. His main attribute (other than his physical abilities and strength - a seemingly must have for the modern day footballer) is being able to receive a pass and make a pass - normally 5-10 yards and normally sideways.

Maybe I'm being a tad harsh, but I'm sorry, I just don't think Mikel has enough in his game to merit being picked on a regular basis - certainly not when we have a fully fit squad.

i'm afraid i have to concur with that opinion,i've never been able to see what so many on this and other forums see about mikel.he has his good games,and his level of maturity has increased greatly from the young man who played like he was still in a nigerian playground,but overall for the fuss that was made of him he has not delivered so far imo

Sorry mate i just cant agree on any of that.

For starters lets not even try to compare Lampard and Mikel. Those words do not belong in the same universe, let along same sentence. Honestly stop it now and dont get me started on his shooting.

Mikel can pass the ball. But only if its ten yards. Ideally sideways or backwards, but occasionally forwards too. To claim he is a better passer of the ball than Ballack is absurd. Ditto Diarra and Mascherano.

Honestly, im in the minority on here i know but i think but i think he is a fraud of a football player.

I admit i was fooled at first and thought he was something special - but i soon saw the light. And slowly but surely i think others are coming around now too.

All he has to do is stick his ass out, turn and shield the ball from a player and then pass it back to JT and he seems to get 15 MOM votes and comments like 'controlled the game' and 'old head on young shoulders'.

Im actually going to stop now because i could go on and on but to summarise i dont want him anywhere near the first team any time soon, certainly not in the important games anyway - he slows the play down he gives away stupid fouls in stupid places and as soon as we face an half decent opposing player in a free role behind the striker(s) he is out foxed, and ultimately outclassed.

And we usually lose.

You're not alone mate. I don't understand what he offers to the team. Don't try telling this to the Mikel supporters though, they won't understand you.

i would take mikel over every 1 of those players

he has never had a chance to play further forward. not scoring goals can't be an argument for not playing him further forward because lamps only has 2 so far. he has went close a couple of times as well this season. his passing ability is better than any of those players you mentioned plus essien or ballack

This is john obi mikel you're talking about right?

This is john obi mikel you're talking about right?

well essien's passing is a bit rushed and slack at times and a lot of the comments about sideways and backwards passing could be levelled at ballack as well. they'll both throw in a couple/few good passes in a game but the majority of their play is moving the ball on. in the DM position Mikel ALWAYS finds himself in that's probably what is being asked of him

i will agree that i think he slows the game down a bit too much at times

This is john obi mikel you're talking about right?

John 'Oh I got caught in Possession again' Mikel.

My 2 cents. Not good enough for Chelsea on current form but we are stuck with him - lucky boy.

Not necessarily - you could argue that you don't need a dedicated DM as much if you keep gerrard quiet beause that is the area of the field he operates most in. That isn't to say you would entirely neglect defensive midfield duties. Ballack would still have a defensive responsibility but it wouldn't be entirely defensive.

But that's the only place Gerrard operates in, he physically can't play in a very central role, because he's too bad a tackler and defender to do the box-to-box work Lamps does. The Spanish Waiter plays him as a second striker, he does no box-to-box work whatsoever, and he gets the plaudits as the best midfielder in the world for his attacking work.

1) How many goals does Gerrard get on average a season? 10? Lampard double's that.

2) Is Gerrard a box-to-box midfielder? No. What does Lampard do week in week out (well, when he's not at the tip of the diamond...)?

That's what I absolutely can't stand about the media, Gerrard is the god of all midfielders because of how Gerrard works with Torres. That's the only person he can work with, or he doesn't function properly. Lampard helps out both defence and attack, what credit does Lampard get? His goals. Now don't get me wrong, Lamps goals are just incredible for a midfielder, but the fact is he is probably the most totally all-round midfielder you can get in football today. It's as simple as that.

Regarding Essien - I think he's more suited to the base of the diamond in our formation. Yes, he has the pace and power, but he's a superb tackler and defender. What I like to see him do is when we're defending a corner, we win the header, it falls to Essien at the edge of our box, and he can then turn and run at the opposition setting up a counter-attack.

But that's the only place Gerrard operates in, he physically can't play in a very central role, because he's too bad a tackler and defender to do the box-to-box work Lamps does. The Spanish Waiter plays him as a second striker, he does no box-to-box work whatsoever, and he gets the plaudits as the best midfielder in the world for his attacking work.

1) How many goals does Gerrard get on average a season? 10? Lampard double's that.

2) Is Gerrard a box-to-box midfielder? No. What does Lampard do week in week out (well, when he's not at the tip of the diamond...)?

That's what I absolutely can't stand about the media, Gerrard is the god of all midfielders because of how Gerrard works with Torres. That's the only person he can work with, or he doesn't function properly. Lampard helps out both defence and attack, what credit does Lampard get? His goals. Now don't get me wrong, Lamps goals are just incredible for a midfielder, but the fact is he is probably the most totally all-round midfielder you can get in football today. It's as simple as that.

Regarding Essien - I think he's more suited to the base of the diamond in our formation. Yes, he has the pace and power, but he's a superb tackler and defender. What I like to see him do is when we're defending a corner, we win the header, it falls to Essien at the edge of our box, and he can then turn and run at the opposition setting up a counter-attack.

Spot on, IMHO. Just watch any England game when the two of 'em are on pitch - it's always Lamps doing most of the work (and scoring more goals?).

Mikel - nope, potential is not good enough. He needs to fight for his position. Carlo is trying to do his "coach him to success" bit, but I suspect he needs the boot of being benched/off duty to focus him. Certainly does not deserve to go forward.

I like Essien as DM, where he also has the ability to make plays. Would love to see him wipe the smirk of Gerrard's face this weekend. ;)

I like Ballack more on the side of the diamond, where he can cover for Bos or Ash, like he did to great effect in the Community Shield. Good to have Ballack and Lamps either side of Cole at the tip of the diamond, assuming Cole's back to form.