Are we over estimating our youngsters ?

[Star]

I have followed Youth Cup football finals pretty closely since that famous Man Utd side of 1992, with Gary Neville, David Beckham, Nicky Butt and Ryan Giggs along with Robbie Savage and Simon Davies who beat a Crystal Palace side that produced nothing of note!

I seem to remember they lost to Leeds in 1993 with Paul Scholes joining a few of the above, with only Noel Whelan making a good living out of the Leeds line up!

The 1994 final of Arsenal and Millwall produced nothing. with the 1995 Man Utd victory over Spurs only rearing Phil Neville and Stephen Carr!

1996 was better, Liverpool beat West Ham, with Jamie Carragher, Rio Ferdinand and Frank Lampard becoming England Internationals and legends for their respective clubs!

The young Leeds side, before it all went wrong, that beat Crystal Palace, the year our long wait for a major trophy came to an end in 1997 was possibly the best since Man Utd's, the likes of Paul Robinson, Jonathon Woodgate and Harry Kewell were brilliant in the final.

As the 90's closed, Richard Dunne, David Dunn were the class of 98, Joe Cole and Michael Carrick along with Coventry's Chris Kirkland in 99 were the only notable players to really make the grade.

So to year 2000, Arsenal beat Coventry, a certain Steve Sidwell and wait for it, the new England 28 year old Jay Bothroyd !

Sidwell in fact played in the 2001 final along with Jermaine Pennant - Blackburn produced nobody of note!

When Villa played Everton in 2002 Birmingham's Liam Ridgewell played - but the real star was a certain Wayne Rooney for Everton !

In 2003 Man Utd beat Middlesbro' with Eubanks Blake and that geezer from Sunday Kieren Richardson, with the dreaded Ross Turnbull between the sticks conceding for Boro' alongside Chris Brunt!

2004 Saw Boro' beating Villa with Adam Johnson, Gabby Ablonlahor and Gary Cahill making the grade as well.

2005 and this is closer to my point brought an Ipswich victory over Southampton that only produced two quality players in Theo Walcott and wait for it

a substitute by the name of Gareth Bale!

2006 and this is my point - Daniel Sturridge and Micah Richards of City and nobody yet from Liverpool!

2007 between Liverpool and Man United only a single player so far Danny Wellbeck - er a reminder of Sunday again!

2008 Man City v Chelsea !!!!! Daniel Sturridge again ... whilst Bruma, Van Arnholt, Jacob Mellis, Gael Kakuta, Stoch and Nouble were in our side.

2009 between Arsenal and Liverpool has only produced Jack Wilshire of note so far.

To my bone of contention, have we as a club over estimated our 2010 Youth Cup win ?

Are we expecting too much too soon ?

Will on the back of that 2008 final will Paul Clement be assigned the job of replacing Butch Wilkins ?

Is young Josh better than Jody Morris at his age ? Although his off the pitch lifestyle sure is !

History suggests Sturridge and Bruma are strong candidates to succeed as Bruma as doubled up in 2010.

Gael Kakuta has a chance maybe, as for the rest history says their chances are limited.

Unless we have that United side of 92 !!!!!!!!!

Let's 'kin hope so !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BrewCrew]

No way are we over estimating the youth. How can you overestimate players that hardly get chances to show what they can do. Sturridge can score but he gets 10 min here and there. Kakuta and create plays but he only gets 10 here and there.

[BlueBeard]

No way are we over estimating the youth. How can you overestimate players that hardly get chances to show what they can do. Sturridge can score but he gets 10 min here and there. Kakuta and create plays but he only gets 10 here and there.

Absolutely, these youngsters are never going to make the grade if they don't get a decent amount of playing time. It's about time we had the bottle to start a youngster or two in games rather than just give them a cameo appearance when we're coasting.

[Hutch]

Absolutely, these youngsters are never going to make the grade if they don't get a decent amount of playing time. It's about time we had the bottle to start a youngster or two in games rather than just give them a cameo appearance when we're coasting.

in theory I agree. Where I disagree is that we should start with the youngsters as a reaction to yesterday's result.

I wrote before the Sunderland game that I was surprised not to see Sturridge involved, but apparently he's injured. I'm hoping to see Kakuta get a lot more playing time before the end of the season. Bruma has already been discussed. I wouldn't be surprised to see Borini called in to the first team squad again at some stage. Remember he's not long returned from another injury, but put in a good 45 minutes, scoring a couple of goals against Bayern. And Josh... he undoubtedly has talent, confidence and composure, but he is still only 17, of slight build and so giving him too much time against the more physical teams could do more harm than good.

[german-blue]

Carlo has yet to convince me that he is serious about our youngsters. I hope Im wrong but PF instead of Bruma at CB says a lot to me

[Tim W]

Personally I reckon we wet nurse them too much. I don't believe 10 minutes here and 10 minutes there has a major effect on their development. Start them if it goes pear shaped we could always have a plan B. Now that really would be something :-)

[german-blue]

One thing that really frustrates me about Carlo are his substitutions sometimes..

We are 2-0 up 30 minutes left..what does is he going to do ? Nothing or maybe bring on PF or Kalou.

[Blue Steel]

Personally I reckon we wet nurse them too much. I don't believe 10 minutes here and 10 minutes there has a major effect on their development. Start them if it goes pear shaped we could always have a plan B. Now that really would be something :-)

This. Ferguson has been great at bringing youth through the ranks at Manure and realises that the last 20 minutes of games simply isn't enough to develop them into first teamers.

[dkw]

This. Ferguson has been great at bringing youth through the ranks at Manure and realises that the last 20 minutes of games simply isn't enough to develop them into first teamers.

Has he? He brought through one excellent crop quite a while ago, since then who has become a fixture in their team from their youth ranks?

[Backbiter]

Has he? He brought through one excellent crop quite a while ago, since then who has become a fixture in their team from their youth ranks?

Fletcher. Not a superstar but a fixture in the 1st XI.

Plus O'Shea, Brown and Evans, who all play pretty regularly.

I think we have high hopes for our current crop because we scoured the world looking for the outstanding talents. I agree that the odds are very much against more than one or two ( at best) establishing themselves.

[andy]

I have to say star I am not always a fan of your posts of late always found them negative but you are spot on with this.

A lot of people have blind faith with Arnesen and our current crop of youngsters and the ones stepping up to the first team now. Of course I think we have some fine talent butno one is standing out to me as a definite yes ! I sincerely hope I am wrong and we have a few huge Chelsea stars of the future.

But as someone who actually goes to youth and reserve team games and used to go down to Harlington on a regular basis the current crop are not as good as Morris, Terry, Carlton Cole, Sinclair at the same age.

Like I say I hope I am wrong and I understand that football had moved on in the last 10 years but I am yet to see a product of our youth system and i am not convienced i will.

[ws6blue]

interesting set of posts.............I think it starts with reduction in budget for carlo from roman - so to some degree carlo doesn't have any choice - I am not an expert in serie a but I believe young italian players do come through but only in early 20's - they serve very long apprenticeship. Over here there are plenty players u21 in PL getting a game but its hard to inject more than a couple at any 1 time, and hard for carlo too as he has to try and win every match and he'd soon be critcised for playing youngsters and losing

I think he needs pick 2 of em and give 3-4 starting runs - see what they can do, but maybe not against top 4 opposition - so CL would be good start

of the current crop;

brouma still developing but we are short of centre-backs - so he would be 1 pick for me

joel mc too young and would be better on loan for few months where he'd get a game, but best long-term prospect

daniel is definite yes - actually I don't rate him as he is a bit of a 1 trick pony but he deserves a go

kakuta I am not sure about, but he too very young so loan for him, or impact only

borini yes in the CL on right side front 3.............

van arnolt - yes, he looks very good prospect

when you list em, looks a good list - but not all at the same time

[icecoolguy22]

As I see it, we have some promising young players, only promising at this stage. It's not entirely their fault that they haven't played many games to prove their worth, but the hint is why Carlo plays Ferriera and Kalou etc even when the games are in the bag. It's for that reason I think we need to bolster our squad in Janunary, the likes of Lampard, Drogba, Anelka will sign off in 3-4 years time, if the current youngster do their apprenticeship, they will step in the first team squad in a few years time. It's easy to say we will sacrifice points or a title to blood the youngsters. If we have a bad season, fans will turn against players and managers, and most importantly the owner will wield his axe again, and we may see some of the youngsters forced out of the club. I hope Carlo gives them a go in the next 2 meaningless CL matches. However, they are still young, I don't expect miracles from them.

[Kalou Time]

Question: If the kids aren't good enough or ready why have they been promoted to the first team to replace the players that left in the summer (Carvalho, Ballack, Deco etc)?

Either the kids are good enough and just aren't being given a chance OR Carlo made a huge mistake (perhaps in part due to lack of funds or pressure from within the club to promote the kids?)

Sturridge is no kid, he has years of premier league experience and is on a huge wage. If he is not ready then whoever handled that deal should be sacked.

People on here say Ramires is not ready for the pace of the premier league, he needs game time to adapt. Yet those same people aren't willing to give the youngsters their moment on the pitch to get a feel for it.

Some kids can step up to the plate at a young age, they will thrive on the pressure/chance.

[nofizzleforshizzle]

Carlo seems to be intent on doing the same wonders for our youth team that he did for Milan's youth team. How demoralizing must it be for a young centre-back to have a 4th choice right back picked ahead of you? If this nonsense is to be continued, it is better to just shut the academy down altogether and spend the money saved on buying players for the first team.

Edited November 16, 2010 by nofizzleforshizzle

[BigIzz]

Just because players are young doesn't mean they deserve a chance. Carlo sees much more of them then any of us do. It says a lot that Paulo started ahead of Bruma on Sunday. That isn't Carlo not integrating youth, that is Carlo not thinking Bruma is very good.

Based on what I've seen the young players haven't done a whole lot to impress. Obviously McEachern has been the most impressive but we need to remember he is very, very young. Kakuta clearly has sublime skills but hasn't produced much. Sturridge has scored once now in 19 matches. Borini never looked very good to me and doesn't seem to be anywhere near the first team these days.Van Aaholt hasn't shown me a whole lot the couple of times I've seen him and kept back isn't really a weakness. Maybe these players just aren't that good and don't deserve more playing time. How much should we be willing to sacrifice to find out?

I don't pretend to know these answers.

[BrewCrew]

"Sturridge scoreed once in 19 matches."

Where are you getting that from? According to ESPN he has scored 6 goals for Chelsea. your argument is total bull because you are accounting for the 10 min here, 5 min there. How are you supposed to make an impact when you only get to play the last 3 minutes because you came on to waste time in a close game? This has been the. awe for Kakuta and Sturridge. They deserve more time.

[Kalou Time]

Van Aanholt got a goal and assist in his only start, he hasn't shown much to you? None of them have had a chance to prove much

Being young doesn't mean they deserve a start, but being high paid high profile names doesn't mean you automatically deserve a start either

If these players aren't good enough why did Carlo deem them good enough to be in our first team this year? If that was the case fine, keep them in the reserves or send them on loan and sign some cheap squad players in the summer no problem. But he didnt, so here we are.

[Gilvorak]

Kids who've only started a combined 3 league games in the past 51 matches for us?

[forbzy]

I don't think too many of us are over-estimating them. But perhaps a better phrase would be holding out hope for them. After their success in the FA Cup last year I think we are just hoping to see 1 or 2 players make a successful transition to the first team in the near future. Realistically we will only see 1 or 2 at best make it based on the high standard of players they are competing against. Based on what I've seen so far Josh McEachran has the best chance. Although Bruma will probably get a few chances to show what he can do now too. Beyond that Kakuta is also a big talent and I'd like to see Van Aanholt have another run out. Chalobah seems like a real talent too and the fact that he has made to the bench at the age of 15 suggests he is something special. Some of the others may not be good enough in the long term but will hopefully get a chance to show what they can do at some point.

[dkw]

Fletcher. Not a superstar but a fixture in the 1st XI.

Plus O'Shea, Brown and Evans, who all play pretty regularly.

I think we have high hopes for our current crop because we scoured the world looking for the outstanding talents. I agree that the odds are very much against more than one or two ( at best) establishing themselves.

Fletcher I`ll give you, the other 3 are squad players that play less than 20 games each a season so not having that. So thats 1 player in the last 10 years has came through from Utd`s youth side, yet Fergie is held up as a a manager who gives youth a chance. Strange eh.

[Kalou Time]

Fletcher I`ll give you, the other 3 are squad players that play less than 20 games each a season so not having that. So thats 1 player in the last 10 years has came through from Utd`s youth side, yet Fergie is held up as a a manager who gives youth a chance. Strange eh.

Rafael, Gibson, Evans, Macheda

They may not be first teamers or play a lot of football, but they are young and fergie gives them game time and has done for years

[dkw]

Rafael, Gibson, Evans, Macheda

They may not be first teamers or play a lot of football, but they are young and fergie gives them game time and has done for years

They arent first choice, thats what im saying. Fergie has bought in players ever since the crop of players like Beckham, giggs, scholes etc came through. 1 player has established himself as first choice yet he doesnt get stick for not bringing youth through.

[Kalou Time]

They arent first choice, thats what im saying. Fergie has bought in players ever since the crop of players like Beckham, giggs, scholes etc came through. 1 player has established himself as first choice yet he doesnt get stick for not bringing youth through.

Because they are still young, who is to say they wont become first choice?

In fairness he has given a lot of young players an opportunity of the years, some just weren't deemed good enough and were sold/left; like pique & richardson. I dont know a lot about man united but im sure there are more examples

'Bringing youth through' doesn't mean they have to be a mainstay in the starting 11

Bottom line is he puts faith in his kids and rewards them with starts. Its up to them to take it

[Maksimov]

1 player has established himself as first choice yet he doesnt get stick for not bringing youth through.

I think Fergie has been safe from getting stick because he's managed to introduce enough "flavor of the week" -players quite regularly. And by this I mean the type of youngsters who might score a late winner or play a blinder in one or two matches and then everyone raves about them for a while.

Edited November 16, 2010 by Maksimov