Now I could be wrong but, I think Mourinho seemed to employ 2 wingers in the championship winning sides of 2004/5 & 2005/6 (I'll happily stand corrected).

I think he preferred a more diamond-like shape but was impressed with the contributions of both Duff and Robben. They certainly seemed to operate with devastating effect, at least in that first season.

It seems he went with the diamond formation moreso in the 2006/07.

Do you guys think playing without wingers suits you better or do you think there's an argument to revert to the formation which won you back-to-back league titles,or if nothing else as an option when Plan A isn't working?

I would much prefer us to revert to wingers who played in the way Duff and Robben did. With those options we were desperately hard to defend against but now we are predictable and too easily crowded out in the centre of the park.

When lampard and drogba are firing we don't need out and out wingers, but because they haven't been performing, and no one has stepped up, we play too slow and too narrow, and there's no outlet and no pace down the flanks. If we had 2 pacey wingers we could at least stretch teams more, as we don't get to the byline and put in early crosses. It's easy to defend our crosses because there all in front of the centre backs, we need to be putting in balls when defenders are facing their goal to cause more problems. So to answer your question, playing without wingers has started to really hurt us as a team, and we either need to sign wingers in the summer, or find a new formation that works, without the relying on drogba and lampard.

I think, when competeing on all front, its important to be able to choose either formation/tactic and have a squad that allows you such flexibility.

IMO, I think a proper winger and a creative mid are our 2 most pressing needs this summer.

I would like to use wingers more players that can put a team under preasure by going past their man rather then stopping and passsing back to the rb or lb or square to midfield all the time.

Most teams when they play us have their lb or rb get behind the ball stopping us dead in our tracks unless we pass around them which is what they expect and have covered, if the ball is passed sqaure then their centre midfield are there to apply pressure ensuring that we play back to our central defenders or as we see too often keeper or we go into a routine of passing it back to malouda or who ever on the right then we repeat again and again.

Not slating your team however i think it has also been an Arsenal problem you have the players to go past defenders but often in the past stop and over pass the ball allowing defending teams to organise and get bodies behind the ball in numbers.

Also in the past Lamps, malouda, Essian Drogba have been on form in the centre of the park allowing us to play through a defence or push past via strength.

I'd love to be able to use wingers that stayed wide and have it as an option, I wouldn't say it would be the right way for every game but no formation is, I don't think we have players of the quality in that role of Duff or Robben, we can use Kalou wide who has some speed and a bit of skill but he isn't a perfect fit and I don't think Malouda is either...both can be used there but are nothing like as effective as players we had when that was our primary formation.

Really a creative tricky player at least for the right hand side would make a lot of difference to this team, I do think the Diamond can still work for us but needs to be adaptable and we need players that can go out to the wing when and if we have played the Diamond and it has not done the trick.

I've seen a few formation changes of late but the players seem to have trouble adapting, I think once Carlo finds who his front players are going to be for the rest of the season things might start to look a lot more fluid.

I'd be interested to see what would happen if we tried a 3-5-2 now and again with Cole and Bossy playing as wide midfielders rather than wing-backs and Ess, Ramires and Lamps in the middle. Should let us keep our strength in the middle and add a bit more width than we're getting at the moment.

Don't necessarily think it's one to try against the big boys, but I reckon that a back three of Terry, Ivan and Luiz could probably keep out most weaker opposition without much trouble.

I'd be interested to see what would happen if we tried a 3-5-2 now and again with Cole and Bossy playing as wide midfielders rather than wing-backs and Ess, Ramires and Lamps in the middle. Should let us keep our strength in the middle and add a bit more width than we're getting at the moment.

Don't necessarily think it's one to try against the big boys, but I reckon that a back three of Terry, Ivan and Luiz could probably keep out most weaker opposition without much trouble.

I think those three would be stretched all over the place in defence. Not enough pace there, and if you aren't asking Ashley and Bosingwa to pull back whilst being attacked on the break, we'd easily concede with that in my opinion.

The last few years has seen a rise in the use of Inverted wingers throughout Europe. Most of the big sides utilize an Inverted winger on one side of the pitch to provide a direct attacking threat.

Nani

Robben

Messi

Ronaldo

We have never used this tactic as far as im aware, even when we had Robben Duff and Cole rotating on our wings.

I would love to see us use an inverted winger for a more direct approach, and it would suit our counter attacking game. I was thinking Zhirkov could play this role for us. Zhirkov to the right wing, with instructions to cut inside and shoot and run at defenders.

Good point. You are right.

Last season when Malouda was a regular starter he was the closest thing to that. On the right side we had no one. I'm not sure if you just can pick someone from the team and say "you play that way". It is about the qualities. Zhirkov has quality but would he be the attacking fuel in the team? Those relatively unknown players you listed there are players who make things happen even if no one else is participating.

You remember when Robben was on his best he was usually half a pitch ahead from everyone else when he started running with the ball as everyone had hard time going his pace even without the ball.

I would love us to have such quality but I'm afraid we have to use other weapons instead.

Again we come back to not having proper wingers who can switch between both flanks easily, just like all the players you have just mentioned. Although we do use Anelka and Kalou on the left at times, its just another case of shoehorning. And as for a player like Zhirkov, he cannot adapt to the opposite flank at this stage, its just not his strength.

Malouda could do it maybe, the only thing he seems to do these days is cut inside. At least on the left, he'd be coming in on his stronger foot, and unlike Zhirkov he does have a good shot on him.

A lack of width is definately an issue with us at times, but more importantly IMO is our lack of a player who, when space opens up in front of him, can run directly at the opposition and go past them. And that doesn't necessarily have to be a winger. Think Gazza in his prime. Think Messi now. The beauty of this type of player, (and it has to be said, they are a very rare breed), is that when they are in full flight with the ball at their feet, they draw opponents to them like a magnet and that opens up gaps for their team mates to exploit. Joe Cole was this type of player though he was nowhere near as effective as the two I mentioned above as he had neither Gazza's bull like physical strength, nor Messi's explosive change of pace.

The fact is we have needed this type of player for a longtime now, either out on the flanks or through the middle. Tottenham have three. Lennon, Bale and when he needs to, also Modric. Lennon and Bale use sheer speed. Modric does it with it excellent close control and his ability to use both feet.

As you say Just, those type of players are few and far between. I don't think there is any doubt that Arsenal have been such a threat this season because of the way Nasri has upped his game and at times been that type of player.

I expect we are hoping Kakuta could become such a player for us. Unfortunately his development this season has been negligible although he has plenty of time on his side. Once again, it will come down to whether we want the "quick-fix" and go and sign a player (like Neymar) for a ridiculous fee and pay him obsene wages or whether we show a bit of faith in our youngsters. Kakuta aside, Josh certainly has the ability to jjust glide past players as if they are not there and open teams up, but again I fear we won't place our trust in anyone under 21/22?

Wingers are not a must but then your fullbacks must be able to cross well and we should need creativity through the middle ...

We don't have players who can run quicker with the ball and provide a good cross .. We need those type of players than the orthodox winger who could just cross but no real pace. Also playing wingers will make the opposition defend on all fronts which will make them slightly vulnerable.

Acole should have definitely improved this aspect of the game , the crossing ... Don't understand why coaches did not pay much attention to it. Bosingwa was good before the injury but now he is pathetic..

I would love the day when I can watch our team deploying wingers ( inverted roles ) who can cut inside and score a brilliant goal !

Again we come back to not having proper wingers who can switch between both flanks easily, just like all the players you have just mentioned. Although we do use Anelka and Kalou on the left at times, its just another case of shoehorning. And as for a player like Zhirkov, he cannot adapt to the opposite flank at this stage, its just not his strength.

Malouda could do it maybe, the only thing he seems to do these days is cut inside. At least on the left, he'd be coming in on his stronger foot, and unlike Zhirkov he does have a good shot on him.

Well a large number of individuals would strongly disagree with you on that. Including myself and more importantly a Mr Guus Hiddink who has described Zhirkov as a very talented AND versatile footballer who excels on the flanks, wolrd class in his opinion.

A lack of width is definately an issue with us at times, but more importantly IMO is our lack of a player who, when space opens up in front of him, can run directly at the opposition and go past them. And that doesn't necessarily have to be a winger. Think Gazza in his prime. Think Messi now. The beauty of this type of player, (and it has to be said, they are a very rare breed), is that when they are in full flight with the ball at their feet, they draw opponents to them like a magnet and that opens up gaps for their team mates to exploit. Joe Cole was this type of player though he was nowhere near as effective as the two I mentioned above as he had neither Gazza's bull like physical strength, nor Messi's explosive change of pace.

The fact is we have needed this type of player for a longtime now, either out on the flanks or through the middle. Tottenham have three. Lennon, Bale and when he needs to, also Modric. Lennon and Bale use sheer speed. Modric does it with it excellent close control and his ability to use both feet.

We have this type of player, we just stick him in as a LB or a CM more often than not. I am not claiming him to be on par with Gazza or Messi, but he is surely far more taletned than most. SHall we review with a little video compilation of the player dubbed "The Russian Ronaldhino"?

Damn, look at all those cuts in the middle. Look at the width. Look at those balls in. If only we had a player who could provide that..........

Edited February 25, 201115 yr by Barry Bridges

heh, after seeing that you can notice 2 things.

1) He does perform some magic on the right.

2) He has a good shot.....even scored a few off the baseline out of the box(see 5:24 to see 2 in a row) ...Like the Drogba cross turned goalin the season opener vs Hull last season.

Wow, we should really try giving Yuri some creative freedoms on the wings!

I think when we signed Zhirkov we ALL saw him as a winger, as opposed to cover for Ashley, and I really expected him to become a real talent for us given a lengthy run in the side. Early this season when he was deployed in CM in Lamps' absence he grew to improve in that position, but he couldn't do what he's good at there. He needs to be out there, preferably on the left of the 4 man midfield we deployed on Tuesday with Ramires on the right. I did just ponder the idea of a 4 man midfield of Zhirkov on the left, Essien or Ramires and Lamps in the middle, Malouda on the right. I remember coco saying in another thread (possibly the Man U match chat) that we should effectly play a 4-1-3-2, like so:

--------------------------Cech

--Ivan-------Luiz-----------------JT-------Ashley

------------------------Essien

--Malouda----------Lampard--------Zhirkov

-------------Anelka------------Torres

I don't mind that at all. The movement of Malouda/Anelka/Torres/Zhirkov would be unbelievable, incredibly difficult to defend against. Add to that that the opposing back four would have to mark one of the four each, add Lamps to the mix then it gets incredibly interesting. I can see that working incredibly well. Whether we'll ever see it deployed though, is another matter entirely.

That just reminded me of something Jose said, when we bought Malouda..

In my opinion, the best football we have played in the last three years was when Robben and (Damien) Duff were playing together in the same team, so why can't Robben and Florent play together?

Never really saw it happen though, did we?

But I can't see Carlo playing Malouda on the right, and Ramires on the right would probably give us better balance, especially with Ivan at RB.

Well a large number of individuals would strongly disagree with you on that. Including myself and more importantly a Mr Guus Hiddink who has described Zhirkov as a very talented AND versatile footballer who excels on the flanks, wolrd class in his opinion.

We have this type of player, we just stick him in as a LB or a CM more often than not. I am not claiming him to be on par with Gazza or Messi, but he is surely far more taletned than most. SHall we review with a little video compilation of the player dubbed "The Russian Ronaldhino"?

Damn, look at all those cuts in the middle. Look at the width. Look at those balls in. If only we had a player who could provide that..........

You have your answer right there. Sticking him on the right wing would be just like sticking him at LB or CM (worse imo, the guys allergic to the right flank), as you can see from that video, all his best moves come down the left. I reckon we'll see him given a run at LM if we try the 4-4-2 again.

Edited February 26, 201115 yr by footballoholic

We used to use inverted wingers when robben/duff would switch flanks.

when we had SWP,J.cole,Robben,Duff 2 out of the 4 of them used to start and keep changing flanks through out the game some time the striker pushed wide and duff and j cole use to counter attack through the middle but that was Jose style

now we have sold all of them have malouda,Zhirkov,Anelka, who are regulars but ancelotti doen't believe in switching flanks i think or anelka can't play wide left as effective as he play wide right.

Kalou again can play on both flanks but his crossing is not good,Seeing that video of Zhirkov though makes me wonder only if he stayed fit and Ancelotti stuck by him and played him regularly we might see his full potential he was known as the Russian Ronaldinho

Inverted wingers or using 2 out and out wingers is lot dependent on the manager and the tactics...

He's had a bad season but Malouda is much more than just a winger in my opinion. I think having him in the team means you have a player who can run the wings, but also come back central if we are caught short. Its not having anyone on the right side that is our problem. Anelka is so much better further foward, he slows the game down on the right.

I think we are desprate for widt, realy width, not the fake stuff your fullbacks offer you.

but it needs to come with the talent as well. i also think zikov hasnt really had a fiar crack at playing high up the park on the left and actually dont rate malouda so would love to see yuri have a go. Kakuta is the other promosing option and I think Ramieres could do a job a bit deeper in a differnt way with his work rate.

As has been mentioned above though we really lack a player who see's the whole pictter. When he gets the balll just knows what the pitch looks like. Wesley Shnider for inter being the best example of that last season

It depends on the system, but we need a right winger to balance our squad without a shadow of doubt.

Teams have set themselves up to stop our full backs getting forward, making 4-3-3 redundant in my

eyes unless we get a Duff or Robben type either side of say Torres.

My belief, whatever the system we have to play two up top.

Anelka plays off the shoulder, Torres game surrounds making runs and wanting the killer ball although

he has the ability to score a goal out of nothing.

Drogba though brilliant alone on his day, for me these days would benefit from a partnership, thus the

perm is any 2 from 3.

Alexis Sanchez can get up and down and is suited to 4-4-2 which if we get right could be the answer.

When we have that balance our formations are endless, from 3-4-1-2 to 4-3-1-2 even 4-3-3 with him wide.

Reading peoples posts in this thread just makes me think what have we lost between now and start of the season?

We scored for fun last season and I don't remember 'parking the bus' term being used that often. If you play well you don't even pay attention to opposing defending.

I don't think Malouda's lost anything. We didn't have Essien last season and he was a monster for us beginning of the season, now he's been invisible. Lampard missing is the easiest way to explain why we played bad but now he's been back for a while.

We have gained pace with Ramires coming in and lately he's been our best player which really should tell something about how others have played.

Sadly I think Zhirkov will leave at the end of the season. He just somehow doesn't fit in Chelsea. I would love him to stay but I think he is in the wrong place. His english is still non-existent(I think) and he's been injured for most of the time he's been here. It doesn't help that Carlo's english is not that much better.

Generally I agree that we are missing that Robben style player but who wouldn't miss one of the best players in the world. They don't grow in trees.