I felt there ought to be a thread dedicated to this. Where would you have them in relation to the all-time great teams (70s Ajax, 55-60 Madrid, early 90s Milan, etc.)?

 

I would gauge them on two things - their level of play in their treble-winning season (last year) and how well they maintain that level of consistency over the next few years, which we're obviously still yet to witness. Looking at the 12-13 season for now, the sheer manner of ruthlessness, consistency and demolition of several respectable teams that they showed already puts them ahead of teams that only won one or the other of the league and CL in any given season. All in all it looks to me as if that campaign is rivaled only by Barca's 08-09 season over the past 20 or so years.

 

Looking further than that it becomes more difficult to draw comparisons. The fact that they've reached thee Champions League finals in four years already puts them ahead of Inter 09-10, Arsenal 03-04 or us in 2005. The reason why Barca are still ahead in my view is because they kept that level of monopoly in Europe for three or four seasons - we've yet to see if Bayern can contribute a similar set of trophy haul and performances which is what they'll need if they're to be considered at the very zenith of club sides. That's what would put them amongst their own team from 71-76, Madrid 55-60, Milan 88-94 and the like; as I said only time will tell here. As it stands they comfortably sit alongside some of the lesser (but still great) teams post-90s, IMO.

 

That's my two cents anyway. What say the rest of you?

Easily the best team in Europe by a long shot last season and getting to the European Cup final in successive seasons is no small feat. 

 

Very much a well drilled team as apposed to being filled with individual brilliance in my opinion.

 

If they manage to win the European Cup again within the next 3 years then I think they will have to be regarded as one of the best sides in recent history and the fact that Lewandowski is joining them next season is a little scary. 

Good subject for discussion :

 

It is a difficult one really. Obviously they should be judged on their success which is brilliant. Far superior to any other top European club currently.. however there are some points.

 

You could argue that they play in an easier league than EPL, Spain, Italy, and doesn’t the German FA far kinder with regards to fixtures when they are playing European matches ?  

 

Although they were the dominant team, I think we were tactically better than them when we played them in the super cup ( but you could argue that it is difficult to judge as both so early in the season)

 

Thought we were mentally better than them on their home turf in the cup final.

 

I also think there are no real stand out superstars like the Spanish and the top 4 (?) in the EPL – but just shows what a couple of pacey wingers can do and a strong centre mid.

 

I think like both have said, decent players in a well-established well drilled team with a great spine is leading to consistency.

 

I have a spot for them, I think apart from a few I  had one of the best days of my life in their amazing city, and their fans on a whole were very hospitable and gracious in defeat.

Edited October 10, 201312 yr by andy

Can they do it on a cold wet & windy night in Grimsby.

I felt there ought to be a thread dedicated to this. Where would you have them in relation to the all-time great teams (70s Ajax, 55-60 Madrid, early 90s Milan, etc.)?

 

I would gauge them on two things - their level of play in their treble-winning season (last year) and how well they maintain that level of consistency over the next few years, which we're obviously still yet to witness. Looking at the 12-13 season for now, the sheer manner of ruthlessness, consistency and demolition of several respectable teams that they showed already puts them ahead of teams that only won one or the other of the league and CL in any given season. All in all it looks to me as if that campaign is rivaled only by Barca's 08-09 season over the past 20 or so years.

 

Looking further than that it becomes more difficult to draw comparisons. The fact that they've reached thee Champions League finals in four years already puts them ahead of Inter 09-10, Arsenal 03-04 or us in 2005. The reason why Barca are still ahead in my view is because they kept that level of monopoly in Europe for three or four seasons - we've yet to see if Bayern can contribute a similar set of trophy haul and performances which is what they'll need if they're to be considered at the very zenith of club sides. That's what would put them amongst their own team from 71-76, Madrid 55-60, Milan 88-94 and the like; as I said only time will tell here. As it stands they comfortably sit alongside some of the lesser (but still great) teams post-90s, IMO.

 

That's my two cents anyway. What say the rest of you?

I notice you left out the united 99 side... trebble winners. We could also argue that the united team that won in moscow made a few finals as well, no winning them all. And I actually believe our 2005 team would have been very competitive with this one.

I'm indifferent right now, I don't see city in europe as a massive test yet because city have done sweet FA in europe to date. Lets see what happens over the next couple of seasons.

Personaly I have milan at number one with gullit, vanbastan etc

Good subject for discussion :

 

It is a difficult one really. Obviously they should be judged on their success which is brilliant. Far superior to any other top European club currently.. however there are some points.

 

You could argue that they play in an easier league than EPL, Spain, Italy, and doesn’t the German FA far kinder with regards to fixtures when they are playing European matches ?  

 

Although they were the dominant team, I think we were tactically better than them when we played them in the super cup ( but you could argue that it is difficult to judge as both so early in the season)

 

Thought we were mentally better than them on their home turf in the cup final.

 

I also think there are no real stand out superstars like the Spanish and the top 4 (?) in the EPL – but just shows what a couple of pacey wingers can do and a strong centre mid.

 

I think like both have said, decent players in a well-established well drilled team with a great spine is leading to consistency.

 

I have a spot for them, I think apart from a few I  had one of the best days of my life in their amazing city, and their fans on a whole were very hospitable and gracious in defeat.

 

I don't agree with that at all regarding the Bundesliga - on the pitch there's little to separate it from La Liga or the Premier League, it's just a long way behind the Premier League commercially and can't compete with the glamour of a Madrid or Barca. It's getting there though, IMO.

I notice you left out the united 99 side... trebble winners. We could also argue that the united team that won in moscow made a few finals as well, no winning them all. And I actually believe our 2005 team would have been very competitive with this one.

I'm indifferent right now, I don't see city in europe as a massive test yet because city have done sweet FA in europe to date. Lets see what happens over the next couple of seasons.

Personaly I have milan at number one with gullit, vanbastan etc

 

The United team's another good shout. That Milan side was great and all, but though I've only seen a few games scattered through a few years, for me nothing beats that Ajax team from the 70s. Packed full of wonderful technical players just like this Barca team of 08-09 but with more pace, dynamism and penetration. Can't even begin to envision what it would have been like seeing that team evolve right in front of you.

 

That's the pinnacle of football in my eyes - that kind of understanding and cohesiveness is what all teams should aim for. Their pressing game was simply one of the simpler manifestations of that, which Barca took to another level (not creating it themselves as some would have you believe).

Despite all that has happened between ourselves and Bayern Munich, what with the Champion's League final and the recent Super Cup, I have nothing but admiration and respect for them. Last year I was 100% supporting them after we crashed out and was stoked that they not only won the Champion's League but won it at Wembley, especially considering we beat them in Germany the year before. I would say we're roughly even now as far as the score goes.

 

I thought that it'd be impossible for Pep Guardiola to build on what Bayern Munich have already achieved but he seems to be doing something right. Perhaps his time at Barcelona was not a total fluke after all.

 

Again, I'm rather fond of both Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund. Actually, I hope that the stock of the Bundesliga continues to grow and overshadow La Liga. Another German team winning the Champion's League this year will surely begin to turn more heads.

 

 

On another note.
Whenever England inevitably get knocked out of World Cups I always fall back on supporting the Germans. Call me an unpatriotic person (hint: I'm not) but I just love seeing the Germans mercilessly tear teams to pieces. They play like the Spanish do but they don't mind kicking seven shades of sh*t out of teams.

Edited October 10, 201312 yr by Izanagi

I find it funny that we were the only team able to consistently give Barcelona a hard time in their period of domination, while they swatted teams like Madrid and United like flies. And now we've been the only the team to consistently trouble Bayern in their rise to power while they swat Barca and City like flies.

 

I'm not qualified to comment on all time greats.  Never saw the great Milan or Ajax sides as an example, but Bayern certainly are good.  It's a shame we never won the CL in our height as we'd have been right up there.  I think I prefer them under Heynckes though but we'll see what Pep can do with them.  I just preferred his style of football.

Can they do it on a cold wet & windy night in Grimsby.

I'll stick my neck out and say... yes.

I don't agree with that at all regarding the Bundesliga - on the pitch there's little to separate it from La Liga or the Premier League, it's just a long way behind the Premier League commercially and can't compete with the glamour of a Madrid or Barca. It's getting there though, IMO.

 

I am no bundesliga expert but I would agree on quality; two teams in the final last year for example. However, and I might be wrong, they don't seem to have the fixture congestion we have, is there less domestic cups games ? League teams ? and I maybe wrong again,  but didn't they get the weekend off before the final agaisnt us ? Which is something I have heard before they played us as well

Edited October 10, 201312 yr by andy

I am no bundesliga expert but I would agree on quality; two teams in the final last year for example. However, and I might be wrong, they don't seem to have the fixture congestion we have, is there less domestic cups games ? League teams ? and I maybe wrong again,  but didn't they get the weekend off before the final agaisnt us ? Which is something I have heard before they played us as well

 

I don't imagine their domestic cup works too differently, except that they only have one. They have two less teams in the top-flight though. It's worth noting that over the past five years the difference between second and fourth place in the Bundesliga has been smaller than the equivalent difference in the Premier League, so it wouldn't hold a great deal of weight to say that Bayern have less competition over there either.

Edited October 10, 201312 yr by Teritus

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24449376

 

Interesting short interview with Karl-Heinz Rummenigge on the current overall Bundesliga revival.

Looking back, the great Bayerm Munich team of the early to mid 1970s had decent domestic competition from Borussia Monchengladbach, SV Hamburg and Cologne at various points.

 

The Monchengladbach team from about 1972-78 was a good one

I find it funny that we were the only team able to consistently give Barcelona a hard time in their period of domination, while they swatted teams like Madrid and United like flies. And now we've been the only the team to consistently trouble Bayern in their rise to power while they swat Barca and City like flies.

 

I'm not qualified to comment on all time greats.  Never saw the great Milan or Ajax sides as an example, but Bayern certainly are good.  It's a shame we never won the CL in our height as we'd have been right up there.  I think I prefer them under Heynckes though but we'll see what Pep can do with them.  I just preferred his style of football.

 

Same here, they've got the players to be very direct and it worked wonders under Heynkes and made for exciting matches.

 

As impressive as possession football is, it's boring in my opinion.

Edited October 10, 201312 yr by AdamCFC

Can they do it on a cold wet & windy night in Grimsby.

Scarily yes they can. They are much better equipped than Barcelona for changing the way they go about things, they can out muscle any side, and outplay any other. Except us, of course.

I find it funny that we were the only team able to consistently give Barcelona a hard time in their period of domination, while they swatted teams like Madrid and United like flies. And now we've been the only the team to consistently trouble Bayern in their rise to power while they swat Barca and City like flies.

 

I'm not qualified to comment on all time greats.  Never saw the great Milan or Ajax sides as an example, but Bayern certainly are good.  It's a shame we never won the CL in our height as we'd have been right up there.  I think I prefer them under Heynckes though but we'll see what Pep can do with them.  I just preferred his style of football.

 

I think you got it spot on at the end, Castiel. I remember hearing from one source a while ago that Pep mentioned he might play Mandzukic in defence because he is good in the air 

 

Ripping up their entire setup to play tiki-taka sounds completely bonkers to me... they'll never have a Messi to rely on.

 

This season Bayern have 'only' scored 15 in 8 games. 6 teams have scored more, including Dortmund who have the most on 21.

 

They may have only conceded 3, but it's not looking like they are going to get near the 98 goals they scored last season...

 

Will be interesting to see how they go against the likes of Juventus etc in the UCL this year. Blew them away last year.

Far too early in my mind, only 1 Champions League title to their name.

If they were to become the first team to win back to back titles in the current format of the Champions League, then I think there is certainly room for discussion for them being one of the best sides ever.

Far too early in my mind, only 1 Champions League title to their name.

If they were to become the first team to win back to back titles in the current format of the Champions League, then I think there is certainly room for discussion for them being one of the best sides ever.

Good shout mate.

 

If they then won it again and made it 3 times in a row. The great Bayern Munich side of the mid 1970s won the European Cup from 1974-76.

 

Then this team would certainly have a case for being considered one of the all time great teams.

Good shout mate.

 

If they then won it again and made it 3 times in a row. The great Bayern Munich side of the mid 1970s won the European Cup from 1974-76.

 

Then this team would certainly have a case for being considered one of the all time great teams.

 

A brilliant side (the 70s team) but also a very frustrating one at times.

 

Once they'd won everything they cared sod all for most league games, but they had a remarkable knack to motivate themselves for the big occasion.

 

On an unrelated note the most recent remark endeavouring to dismantle older footballers was made by one of my friends the other day - that Beckenbauer was lazy. Beckenbauer lazy? That's news to me. Strode around like an emperor demanding things be done his way but when you see him carry out that man-marking job on Charlton or play on with the disolocated shoulder vs Italy the last thing you'd think of was lazy! Interesting. The only flaw I ever noticed in his game was those stupid bloody outside-of-the-boot free kicks. The sheer arrogance of thinking he can not only get the ball up and down with the outside of his boot from 18 yards out, but that he can outsmart the keeper too - outrageous!

 

The semi-final vs Russia in '66 was one of the dirtiest WC games I've ever seen and he relished the battle as his fierce competitiveness kicked in. I've no doubt granting him the freedom to stroll around as he pleased helped elevate his game but he showed in that game and countless others that he wasn't averse to doing the dirty work when he needed to. And even then as the youngest player on the pitch at 20 years old he looked the best player on the pitch as Seeler was marked out of the game by Voronin. He was nearly half the age of Yashin when he struck that ball past him, and other than that Yashin had another typically flawless game. Man for the big occasion and all that.

Edited October 17, 201312 yr by Teritus

Apologies if I went slightly off-topic!

A brilliant side (the 70s team) but also a very frustrating one at times.

 

Once they'd won everything they cared sod all for most league games, but they had a remarkable knack to motivate themselves for the big occasion.

 

On an unrelated note the most recent remark endeavouring to dismantle older footballers was made by one of my friends the other day - that Beckenbauer was lazy. Beckenbauer lazy? That's news to me. Strode around like an emperor demanding things be done his way but when you see him carry out that man-marking job on Charlton or play on with the disolocated shoulder vs Italy the last thing you'd think of was lazy! Interesting. The only flaw I ever noticed in his game was those stupid bloody outside-of-the-boot free kicks. The sheer arrogance of thinking he can not only get the ball up and down with the outside of his boot from 18 yards out, but that he can outsmart the keeper too - outrageous!

 

The semi-final vs Russia in '66 was one of the dirtiest WC games I've ever seen and he relished the battle as his fierce competitiveness kicked in. I've no doubt granting him the freedom to stroll around as he pleased helped elevate his game but he showed in that game and countless others that he wasn't averse to doing the dirty work when he needed to. And even then as the youngest player on the pitch at 20 years old he looked the best player on the pitch as Seeler was marked out of the game by Voronin. He was nearly half the age of Yashin when he struck that ball past him, and other than that Yashin had another typically flawless game. Man for the big occasion and all that.

As a youngster I was at the 1976 European Cup Final at Hampden. Bayern Munich v St Etienne.

 

Most neutrals at that game, myself and my old man included were wanting the French team to win.

 

From memory Bayern did just enough to win and they did 1-0. The French showed flair and actually hit the woodwork on 2 or 3 occasions, but really that counts for nothing.

This Bayern side has to win the UCL back to back or another 2 or 3 times to be considered as an all time great and surpass the old Bayern side...