9 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

They would have dropped more points as we would have put far more pressure on them by not drawing 0-0 at home to Fulham every five minutes.

I highly doubt it, they were a team possessed that season, the title was won before the season kicked off, the Aguero moment lit a serious match under Fergie's backside. I'm pretty sure we finished further off top four last season than the distance we were to it when Jose was sacked, that alone proves stats like that are meaningless.

Robbie did a fantastic job as interim, he wasn't great tactically but the way he rallied the team together to bring the two trophies home against all odds was the stuff of legend, however funnily enough he got sacked by Villa today and reading some comments from Villa fans they have the same complaints i did about his full time spell, especially with the team stupidly unbalanced, he was apparently basically playing 4-1-5 against Preston which was what he was doing with us too at times. Rafa at least brought in a system were we defended as a team and attacked as one, we had a weak lineup and even worst depth and he managed to pull 3rd and a trophy out of the season with a record backlog of games, do i think Robbie would have handled the situation as well as Rafa did? sorry i just don't.

In terms of the sentimental side, replacing RDM for Rafa was gut wrenching, but on a footballing perspective and for the sake of our at the time young evolving team, it was 100% correct.

Edited October 3, 20169 yr by Argo

14 hours ago, Van Butsen said:

I really don't agree with the "squad needs a rebuild" talk.

This is the rebuild.  This is life after having the most successful team of the clubs era.  This is how it works, it's hard.

It's impossible to replace the legends that have moved on, but we're doing a pretty decent job of it if you ask me.  Squeezed out another title with the last of them and we have some serious talent in the squad now with a new ambitious coach.

This is the rebuild.  If everyone will only be satisfied with back to back league wins, then we will be rebuilding every year for a long time.  The league is too competitive for that thing to happen (at least instantly).  The players have quality, the coach has ambition, everyone needs to get firing in the right direction and minimum top 4 is absolutely achievable. 

What successful team are you referring to if its the title winning team of 14/15? Or are you saying because JT is still around we are rebuilding the 04 team, we have had probably 40 first team players since 2004 if not more, we have rebuilt the team several times. It's very normal in club football especially when getting a new manager to change the spine of the team, we don't have any irreplaceable players in this team at the moment except maybe Dave and JT , other than that I'd like to keep costa and kante, although we have great players like Hazard if they were sold and replaced not only wouldn't it break my heart but it would be better for us moving forward, a team built on conte style players. As stands we have a team which needs cleared out they have a negative impact on each other and drop tools far too quickly as a team although individually great players at times, hence conte saying we are good on paper only! Pretty much everyone agrees with this including conte if rumors are true, he is clearing out the squad and Roman is backing it, he gave the team the benifit over Mou and look what happened, no more Mou to blame for current form, although he created a bad situation for us and sold players stupidly, we need a CB a LB a CM and a winger and we will get all them by next summer with fab, oscar, Ivan and GC maybe matic getting axed. This is what the reports are following Roman and Conte's meeting 3 days in a row post Arsenal, and I wrote that we needed that before that story broke and many were saying the same, so it's not some whacky idea I dreamed up. However I'm not a de by downer if he sticks with this team I'll support him but when title winners finish 10 th under 2 managers and lose miserably to Liverpool then a team that hasn't scored into us in 3 years on the trot there is a f**king problem, it's not the manager, so what is it? That's right the players, I think everyone but you agreed we have a problem here, and I'm not one to moan but I am one to state what's clear.  

Conte would have done very well if he gets the club to finish in the top 4.  He was poorly backed during the summer with only one of his desired transfer targets fulfilled and having a second-rate defense to work with. 

If he doesn't get his targets again next summer and is saddled with mediocre 20-30 million pound players ( or even cheaper), then he has every right to walk away.

 

Top 4 looks a pipe dream at the moment; hard to see Citeh, Spuds, Dippers and Gooners finish out of the CL spots.

We've already lost 2 from 2 against them; all we can hope for is we go on some super run of form and a couple of them go into complete meltdown but at the moment I can't see it.

Glass half empty I know but am being realistic also.

9 hours ago, DonAntonio said:

What successful team are you referring to if its the title winning team of 14/15? Or are you saying because JT is still around we are rebuilding the 04 team, we have had probably 40 first team players since 2004 if not more, we have rebuilt the team several times. It's very normal in club football especially when getting a new manager to change the spine of the team, we don't have any irreplaceable players in this team at the moment except maybe Dave and JT , other than that I'd like to keep costa and kante, although we have great players like Hazard if they were sold and replaced not only wouldn't it break my heart but it would be better for us moving forward, a team built on conte style players. As stands we have a team which needs cleared out they have a negative impact on each other and drop tools far too quickly as a team although individually great players at times, hence conte saying we are good on paper only! Pretty much everyone agrees with this including conte if rumors are true, he is clearing out the squad and Roman is backing it, he gave the team the benifit over Mou and look what happened, no more Mou to blame for current form, although he created a bad situation for us and sold players stupidly, we need a CB a LB a CM and a winger and we will get all them by next summer with fab, oscar, Ivan and GC maybe matic getting axed. This is what the reports are following Roman and Conte's meeting 3 days in a row post Arsenal, and I wrote that we needed that before that story broke and many were saying the same, so it's not some whacky idea I dreamed up. However I'm not a de by downer if he sticks with this team I'll support him but when title winners finish 10 th under 2 managers and lose miserably to Liverpool then a team that hasn't scored into us in 3 years on the trot there is a f**king problem, it's not the manager, so what is it? That's right the players, I think everyone but you agreed we have a problem here, and I'm not one to moan but I am one to state what's clear.  

The successful team that I'm referring to is the one that just delivered 4 titles in just over a decade?  There were never rebuilds in that time, just progressive team changes for one reason or another.  I guess we will have to agree to disagree on what a rebuild is, but your also only wanting to keep two players but then saying we need to sign players in three positions?  I'm a little confused.

You're also using the logic of a bad season to point to the players being a problem.  I could just an easily point to the title winning season and the players being capable of success.

What would we do if we made all those changes you suggest and we still finished 10th -5th, then what would our next step be? Would you just do it all again?  It's not a given that a clear out will solve anything.  Give the team time and strengthen it each year. 

3 hours ago, Van Butsen said:

The successful team that I'm referring to is the one that just delivered 4 titles in just over a decade?  There were never rebuilds in that time, just progressive team changes for one reason or another.  I guess we will have to agree to disagree on what a rebuild is, but your also only wanting to keep two players but then saying we need to sign players in three positions?  I'm a little confused

Again I think you're confused between a club and a team, since 2004 we have had over 40 first team players if you add the people who have played and been put on loan etc you're talking in excess of 60 that is not a team so let's clarify that firstly, unless you think we have had one team during the Roman era who have won 4 titles which is exactly what you have said.

Secondly I didn't say keep two players and fill 3 positions you're just trying to be a smart arse and that's not the conversations I engage in because there are people that flourish at such roles online and I don't feed into that, however again to clarify I said who is irreplaceable? Not that I want to keep 2 players. I named a few players then names 4 or 5 that it's popular belief will get shipped out and names their replacement positions, again I said spine of the team not whole team. Once more not a whacky idea popular sentiment which was then backed up by media reports that te owner and manager have exactly that plan. 

Edited October 4, 20169 yr by DonAntonio

7 minutes ago, DonAntonio said:

Again I think you're confused between a club and a team, since 2004 we have had over 40 first team players if you add the people who have played and been put on loan etc you're talking in excess of 60 that is not a team so let's clarify that firstly, unless you think we have had one team during the Roman era who have won 4 titles which is exactly what you have said.

Secondly I didn't say keep two players and fill 3 positions you're just trying to be a smart arse and that's not the conversations I engage in because there are people that flourish at such roles online and I don't feed into that, however again to clarify I said who is irreplaceable? Not that I want to keep 2 players. I named a few players then names 4 or 5 that it's popular belief will get shipped out and names their replacement positions, again I said spine of the team not whole team. Once more not a whacky idea popular sentiment which was then backed up by media reports that te owner and manager have exactly that plan. 

I'm not at all confused, I don't mean that literally the starting 11 was the same two years ago as it was in 2004 obviously.  

My point was that we are finally at the back end of that team. The ones that generally played and started, not really interested with the 60 additional.  And although last season was poor, we haven't been relegated.  In the last 4 or so years we've lost more players that are irreplaceable than most clubs ever will in a 20+ year period.  Considering we have some talented players and an ambitious coach, I'd say we've done very well to not let that level of personnel departure affect us as much as it could have.  But you're now saying that everyone we've brought in now needs an audit?  I'm all for the continuing analysis of the squad but you're asking for a rebuild of the players we've brought in to replace people that can't be replaced.  With that logic, we will constantly be replacing players that aren't immediately title winners and legends.

I personally think it is a wacky sentiment, what club replaces 5-6 starting players in an offseason and has instant success?

28 minutes ago, Van Butsen said:

I'm not at all confused, I don't mean that literally the starting 11 was the same two years ago as it was in 2004 obviously.  

My point was that we are finally at the back end of that team. The ones that generally played and started, not really interested with the 60 additional.  And although last season was poor, we haven't been relegated.  In the last 4 or so years we've lost more players that are irreplaceable than most clubs ever will in a 20+ year period.  Considering we have some talented players and an ambitious coach, I'd say we've done very well to not let that level of personnel departure affect us as much as it could have.  But you're now saying that everyone we've brought in now needs an audit?  I'm all for the continuing analysis of the squad but you're asking for a rebuild of the players we've brought in to replace people that can't be replaced.  With that logic, we will constantly be replacing players that aren't immediately title winners and legends.

I personally think it is a wacky sentiment, what club replaces 5-6 starting players in an offseason and has instant success?

No mate we are not at the back end of the 2004 team, they are is long gone just because JT has had a long career means nothing, he is the only remaining player of that era, you're in no mans land with this neither here nor there, conte inherited a mourinho team that decayed and got him the sack along with his own doing, it wasn't a conte team when Mou took over he cleared out guys like mata KDB and lukaku, shurrle, luiz, Torres, cole, cech, brings in matic, fab, Costa, recalls courtois, that's how this works mate new manager, new style, new team, that's just the impact of one recent manager in Romans era and you're going on about some bollox that the 2004 team is just now phasing out? So what Jose did by clearing out and rebuilding in his last stay conte should get to do too, especially as he inherited a team that downed tools got the manager the boot and finished 10th last season, please and thank you. It's best we leave it alone because in my opinion you're talking complete bollox and are unwilling to budge and I find it hard to have a polite dialogue with someone of that mindset and I like to be polite. Especially egen you put words in my mouth that we get rid of everyone we brought in, wtf you in about, I'd sell GC, Ivan, matic, fab, Oscar possibly hazard if someone like bale is available and bring in a CB a lb, a CM and winger but from that you get I want to sell everyone because I said we only have a few irreplaceable players? Move on mate 

Edited October 4, 20169 yr by DonAntonio

2 hours ago, DonAntonio said:

No mate we are not at the back end of the 2004 team, they are is long gone just because JT has had a long career means nothing, he is the only remaining player of that era, you're in no mans land with this neither here nor there, conte inherited a mourinho team that decayed and got him the sack along with his own doing, it wasn't a conte team when Mou took over he cleared out guys like mata KDB and lukaku, shurrle, luiz, Torres, cole, cech, brings in matic, fab, Costa, recalls courtois, that's how this works mate new manager, new style, new team, that's just the impact of one recent manager in Romans era and you're going on about some bollox that the 2004 team is just now phasing out? So what Jose did by clearing out and rebuilding in his last stay conte should get to do too, especially as he inherited a team that downed tools got the manager the boot and finished 10th last season, please and thank you. It's best we leave it alone because in my opinion you're talking complete bollox and are unwilling to budge and I find it hard to have a polite dialogue with someone of that mindset and I like to be polite. Especially egen you put words in my mouth that we get rid of everyone we brought in, wtf you in about, I'd sell GC, Ivan, matic, fab, Oscar possibly hazard if someone like bale is available and bring in a CB a lb, a CM and winger but from that you get I want to sell everyone because I said we only have a few irreplaceable players? Move on mate 

Not really sure where I have hit a string with you on this one.  I'm struggling to understand what your point is but personally?  I think you look at on a far to granular level anyway.  Players going to another team or a new coach signalling an entirely new team? Not the way I see it.

I haven't put any words in your mouth at all, your free to say what ever.  Everyone is replaceable.  My point is that won't necessarily bring success.

2 hours ago, Van Butsen said:

Not really sure where I have hit a string with you on this one.  I'm struggling to understand what your point is but personally?  I think you look at on a far to granular level anyway.  Players going to another team or a new coach signalling an entirely new team? Not the way I see it.

I haven't put any words in your mouth at all, your free to say what ever.  Everyone is replaceable.  My point is that won't necessarily bring success.

You're struggling to see what my point is? We finished 10th we got shagged by the dippers and Arsenal in a bad way, 3 managers have got fuxk all out these lot since we won the title and even that year we were sh*t for the second half of the season, this group is stake needs freshened up, we need JT's replacement we need a LB who is up to standards not just a fill in, we need someone who can work well in the middle with kante consistently and a winger that brings more threat than Pedro/Willian if we would like to stay an elite club, if we don't get top 4 this year our problems will continue as it will be hard to attract players, we believed conte could get top 4 with this squad me included but again they have let their heads drop and being a sh*t hull side hasn't fixed the underlying issues, let's hope that the new system works however conte met Roman and word is he was discussing doing exactly what I have called for so what point don't you get? Let me simplify the goal is to win football games our current team have shown they have not been able to do that very well for a year and a half we have blamed the manager and fired him got a second still sh*t got a third still sh*t which is indicative tags we now have to look at the players something most of us have been doing for a long time. We are an elite club spoiled or not we are playing elite club wages they need to play or they need to move on, might be good individually but as a group it isn't working under 3 managers now, not much mystery in that mate. 

17 hours ago, lchk said:

Conte would have done very well if he gets the club to finish in the top 4.  He was poorly backed during the summer with only one of his desired transfer targets fulfilled and having a second-rate defense to work with. 

If he doesn't get his targets again next summer and is saddled with mediocre 20-30 million pound players ( or even cheaper), then he has every right to walk away.

 

 

My thoughts exactly.

On 10/3/2016 at 12:08, Argo said:

Werr the hell does this myth come from that Roman keeps sacking great managers for no reason? Every manager Roman has sacked fully deserved to go.

Are you kidding?

I think we are putting too much emphasis on individual players. Look at Arsenal and Spurs and Liverpool at the moment. They have no superstars but they are dynamic, hungry, energetic and work their butts off. What we have to hope from Conte, and I'm optimistic, is that he gets that type of momentum into the team. Then we'll have a chance of a top four spot. And if he does so he'll have been one of the best managers we've ever had!

12 hours ago, EmeraldBlue said:

I think we are putting too much emphasis on individual players. Look at Arsenal and Spurs and Liverpool at the moment. They have no superstars but they are dynamic, hungry, energetic and work their butts off. What we have to hope from Conte, and I'm optimistic, is that he gets that type of momentum into the team. Then we'll have a chance of a top four spot. And if he does so he'll have been one of the best managers we've ever had!

Totally agree, however those teams play a young a side which gives them that natural energy. We need to rebuild a younger team. Im not saying either that we need to buy buy buy because i think chelsea have what they need on the sidelines but are just not using them. They need time but the current crop of youth are good enough to do big things imo

 

15 hours ago, DonAntonio said:

You're struggling to see what my point is? We finished 10th we got shagged by the dippers and Arsenal in a bad way, 3 managers have got fuxk all out these lot since we won the title and even that year we were sh*t for the second half of the season, this group is stake needs freshened up, we need JT's replacement we need a LB who is up to standards not just a fill in, we need someone who can work well in the middle with kante consistently and a winger that brings more threat than Pedro/Willian if we would like to stay an elite club, if we don't get top 4 this year our problems will continue as it will be hard to attract players, we believed conte could get top 4 with this squad me included but again they have let their heads drop and being a sh*t hull side hasn't fixed the underlying issues, let's hope that the new system works however conte met Roman and word is he was discussing doing exactly what I have called for so what point don't you get? Let me simplify the goal is to win football games our current team have shown they have not been able to do that very well for a year and a half we have blamed the manager and fired him got a second still sh*t got a third still sh*t which is indicative tags we now have to look at the players something most of us have been doing for a long time. We are an elite club spoiled or not we are playing elite club wages they need to play or they need to move on, might be good individually but as a group it isn't working under 3 managers now, not much mystery in that mate. 

i think it's mainly because your sentences are really long that I can't understand.

Anyway, seems like you're a man of constant action and change.  I'm man for stability and growth.  

1 hour ago, Van Butsen said:

i think it's mainly because your sentences are really long that I can't understand.

Anyway, seems like you're a man of constant action and change.  I'm man for stability and growth.  

Oh right all this time it was grammatical bassed issues that lead to confusion not football issues, silly me.

I shall approach dialogue with you, in the future, in the manner I would a dissertation.

Notable mention to those linguistic whizz kids who did manage to decipher my semi-literate waffle.

To address your next point (football based) I'm not a man who believes in constant action and change.

I beleive in giving players and managers time.

 I am however a man who can't watch the same mistake repeated perpetually with no reaction.

Repeating the same thing with the same people and expecting different results. 

 

You finish 10th after winning the title it's quite clear a change is needed, the club did that by changing manager, and again.

So we arrive at the obvious...that particular change didn't work, let's try another one.

Maybe tighter socks? Refurbish the changing rooms? No tunnocks tea cakes after 6:00. 

Edited October 5, 20169 yr by DonAntonio

18 minutes ago, DonAntonio said:

Oh right all this time it was grammatical bassed issues that lead to confusion not football issues, silly me.

I shall approach dialogue with you, in the future, in the manner I would a dissertation.

Notable mention to those linguistic whizz kids who did manage to decipher my semi-literate waffle.

To address your next point (football based) I'm not a man who believes in constant action and change.

I beleive in giving players and managers time.

 I am however a man who can't watch the same mistake repeated perpetually with no reaction.

Repeating the same thing with the same people and expecting different results. 

 

You finish 10th after winning the title it's quite clear a change is needed, the club did that by changing manager, and again.

So we arrive at the obvious...that particular change didn't work, let's try another one.

Maybe tighter socks? Refurbish the changing rooms? No tunnocks tea cakes after 6:00. 

The more things change the more they stay the same mate.  That's all i'll say

most successful teams have a solid and consistent spine 

 

Chelsea team that was imperious from 04-07 and the later years with successful seasons interspersed with not so good at that time (2nd or 3rd in prem -lol)

had  Cech  JT  Lamps Drogba, the other players were built around this spine of world class players

Now the team imo is 'spinelsess', one exception on current form and what appears a newly acquired better attitude is Diego, JT alas while it still appears is

somewhat essential to the team for his football nous and organizational skills at the back, is no longer the 'world-class' player he  was (but still the best CH at the club currently)

 

Also don't buy the 'excuse' of finishing 10th last season means a top 4 finish is challenging this season, Fatty took Chelsea to 6th, didn't hear the new manager use that as a reason for failure, I recall he said and am paraphrasing "next season

we will be champions" and the team was.

 

Until recruitment at the club is fixed or the younger players showing potential get a proper chance, my answer is currently NO (cant make a silk purse out of.....)

only plus to that unfortunately is seeing Jason Cundy in a bin dippers kit singing YNWA come next summer 

 

 

I think we will do well to get top 4 this season. Massive improvements will needed and better consistency. Hopefully the new system will bed and take us to that next level. 

That said, it is still days. Liverpool and Arsenal won't keep up their form. Liverpool already show a few signs of their hot and cold form. 

On 04/10/2016 at 20:19, Tibbers said:

Are you kidding?

Ive already countered a similar response to this post so guess I'll ask you the same question.

Apart from Ranieri (and Avram if you believe he was the manager in anything other than name), can you name one manager he sacked when we were on an upwards or even sideways curb in terms of performance? 

On 03/10/2016 at 05:08, Argo said:

Werr the hell does this myth come from that Roman keeps sacking great managers for no reason? Every manager Roman has sacked fully deserved to go.

And they were all also hired by him, some just a few months before he had to sack them.

On ?10?/?3?/?2016 at 20:37, Argo said:

He's made some bad appointments and gained a trigger happy reputation fixing the errors, I'm not contesting that.

What I am challenging is this myth created that he's some crazy man that's a mere one step down from Cellino, which is bolax.

He still has a trigger happy reputation.  Nothing's changed.  And who's calling him crazy here?

edit: Woops, just realised this isn't the proper Conte thread.

Edited October 24, 20169 yr by Jonty

On 28 September 2016 at 17:39, Coxy15 said:

Of course Conte can get us top 4. We're 5 games into the season. He has 33 games to figure this out and get us going. With ivanovic and cahill replaced by Alonso and (eventually) Zouma our defence should tighten up and that is our biggest problem at the moment.

Rodgers said after we kept liverpool goalless that "coaching players to defend is easy", something which Mourinho laughed off at the time. Defending isn't easy. Not at all. The art of defending is criminally under-appreciated in world football at the moment and it's the main thing we need to address. Sort out our defeinding in the next 5 or 6 weeks and top 4 is up for grabs. unfortunately if we get past christmas and we keep leaking goals then i dont think we can get top 4 this year. But i still back Conte long term. Give him money and let him coach the team his way.

Success will come eventually

The bolded part of your post rings true right now.

We're currently on a five-match run of keeping clean sheets, but most importantly we've also encompassed an attacking flair game that has allowed us to produce big results against quality opponents.

Conte has to be credited for changing the formation and for instilling confidence into a squad of players that were mentally fragile after last season's capitulation. I was cautiously optimistic about finishing top 4 and I would regard that as a success in Conte's first season regardless of whether we win the title or not.

Edited November 7, 20169 yr by Jezz

On ?10?/?4?/?2016 at 08:47, 1905 said:

Top 4 looks a pipe dream at the moment; hard to see Citeh, Spuds, Dippers and Gooners finish out of the CL spots.

We've already lost 2 from 2 against them; all we can hope for is we go on some super run of form and a couple of them go into complete meltdown but at the moment I can't see it.

Glass half empty I know but am being realistic also.

Hopefully I will be eating these words.