I still think Kante's been pretty good this season, though maybe not quite as good as he was in previous seasons.

In prior seasons he still played a box-to-box role but was not expected to make as many runs into the box and finish - instead he was really tasked with winning the ball and helping to trigger counter-attacks.

This season he's been expected to contribute more in the 18-yard area. In this respect, I think that the timing of his runs into the box has been pretty good lately (Man City/Crystal Palace); it's just that his finishing too often lets him down.

Nonetheless he's on track for 5-6 PL goals this season, which is more than Essien (who was more technically gifted and IMO possessed better forward movement) usually contributed.

1 minute ago, DaRick said:

I still think Kante's been pretty good this season, though maybe not quite as good as he was in previous seasons.

In prior seasons he still played a box-to-box role but was not expected to make as many runs into the box and finish - instead he was really tasked with winning the ball and helping to trigger counter-attacks.

This season he's been expected to contribute more in the 18-yard area. In this respect, I think that the timing of his runs into the box has been pretty good lately (Man City/Crystal Palace); it's just that his finishing too often lets him down.

Nonetheless he's on track for 5-6 PL goals this season, which is more than Essien (who was more technically gifted and IMO possessed better forward movement) usually contributed.

I agree with all of that apart from Essien, he was a monster physically but technically he wasn't great, that's why had such a spectacular fall from grace when injures stripped him of his physical attributes.

15 minutes ago, Argo said:

I agree with all of that apart from Essien, he was a monster physically but technically he wasn't great, that's why had such a spectacular fall from grace when injures stripped him of his physical attributes.

He wasn't great no, but I do feel that he was a little more gifted than Kante RE ball control, passing and finishing.

Kante is better defensively though, so it evens out. 

Kante’s growing into the role. Very impressive ability to adapt. He’ll never be frank Lampard for goals but clearly having an impact in recent games. A very professional approach and plays with enthusiasm I love to watch. 

Edited December 31, 20187 yr by ozboy

2 hours ago, Argo said:

The strangest thing about all these "Kante's out of his best position" argument is that position doesn't exist under Sarri and DM further puts him away from very best, Conte's pre formation switch he played there and was bang average to put it kindly and that was without the ball playing expectations Sarri will demand.

If he Sarri furfils a lot of peoples fantasy and drops Kante back he either sits back and we take away his best attribute of hunting high up for interceptions and tackles or tell him to keep doing it which would leave gaping holes in behind whenever he failed to get the ball.

In a possession based 433, he is actually playing in the best position for him.

Then why are the statistics for his interceptions and tackles much worse now than they have been since he was introduced into the Premier League? Clearly, he's best utilised further down the field not up the field. 

 

This is Kante last season, he also had better pass completion, 63.24 passes per match and 89 accurate long balls. 

Now these are Kante's stats so far, he also has a lower pass %, 57.39 passes per match and 17 accurate long balls. Now we've played half of our games this season, by rate you can quite easily work it out, double these figures and they still don't touch his defensive stats. 

His forward pressuring is clearly not doing enough and so far this season that's not where he's best utilised, now I'll always accept the argument that there is room to improve and adapt, but don't try to say that he's playing better now than he has been the last 2 years because I just can't subscribe to that. He may absolutely mould and become a better player in time, I really hope so, he could be the adaptable type, but I think his attributes are wasted and not as effective in this position and he's far too sloppy for us to keep possession all the time. 

 

Edited December 31, 20187 yr by Slojo

Lots of possession, some intricate football and ball retention.

Giroud was very unfortunate to see both of his goals disallowed.

I just hoped we'd get a second goal to kill them off.

In the end we didn't need it.

 

1 hour ago, Slojo said:

Then why are the statistics for his interceptions and tackles much worse now than they have been since he was introduced into the Premier League? Clearly, he's best utilised further down the field not up the field. 

 

This is Kante last season, he also had better pass completion, 63.24 passes per match and 89 accurate long balls. 

Now these are Kante's stats so far, he also has a lower pass %, 57.39 passes per match and 17 accurate long balls. Now we've played half of our games this season, by rate you can quite easily work it out, double these figures and they still don't touch his defensive stats. 

His forward pressuring is clearly not doing enough and so far this season that's not where he's best utilised, now I'll always accept the argument that there is room to improve and adapt, but don't try to say that he's playing better now than he has been the last 2 years because I just can't subscribe to that. He may absolutely mould and become a better player in time, I really hope so, he could be the adaptable type, but I think his attributes are wasted and not as effective in this position and he's far too sloppy for us to keep possession all the time. 

 

Umm when i have i said he's better now? What i said was he will be even further away from his best being in Jorginho's position.

The point im making is the last two/three years he wasn't playing the role people want him to play now, he was for the most part in a 2 man midfield with one of Drinkwater, Matic, Bakayoko with the other one tasked with sitting behind him for the times Kante's proactive nature led to him being wiped out of the current phase of play. That's Kante at his very best in a 2 man midfield with the team having between 40-55% possession per game. He will probably never be as good under Sarri as he was playing that role but that's not what im trying to argue, that role that Kante played for Ranieri and Conte doesn't exist under Maurizio so it's about finding where he can best be utilized in the current system and i think where he is is it.

1 hour ago, erskblue said:

Lots of possession, some intricate football and ball retention.

Giroud was very unfortunate to see both of his goals disallowed.

I just hoped we'd get a second goal to kill them off.

In the end we didn't need it.

 

The BBC commentator on MOTD said in the first one, his body was offside and I have not heard offside described that way before.

For the second goal he said that was close though should have been allowed and added that is possibly two good goals disallowed now.

No BBC pundit discussion aired on that, you can bet it was discussed though I expect edited to suit the program producers.

 

3 hours ago, Slojo said:

Then why are the statistics for his interceptions and tackles much worse now than they have been since he was introduced into the Premier League? Clearly, he's best utilised further down the field not up the field. 

 

 

Do we have to go through this every week, if you still can't understand why his Interception stats are down when we now have changed our game to be much more possession based then you're never gonna get it. He has never been a sitting dm, he has always been a dynamic midfielder and is being used more in attack, something that will take time but has already proven fruitful. 

14 hours ago, dkw said:

Do we have to go through this every week, if you still can't understand why his Interception stats are down when we now have changed our game to be much more possession based then you're never gonna get it. He has never been a sitting dm, he has always been a dynamic midfielder and is being used more in attack, something that will take time but has already proven fruitful. 

And it's still not getting the best out of him. 

15 hours ago, Argo said:

Umm when i have i said he's better now? What i said was he will be even further away from his best being in Jorginho's position.

The point im making is the last two/three years he wasn't playing the role people want him to play now, he was for the most part in a 2 man midfield with one of Drinkwater, Matic, Bakayoko with the other one tasked with sitting behind him for the times Kante's proactive nature led to him being wiped out of the current phase of play. That's Kante at his very best in a 2 man midfield with the team having between 40-55% possession per game. He will probably never be as good under Sarri as he was playing that role but that's not what im trying to argue, that role that Kante played for Ranieri and Conte doesn't exist under Maurizio so it's about finding where he can best be utilized in the current system and i think where he is is it.

And I don't think he will ever suit that role, his performances this season have not been particularly good, he's wasteful with the ball, he doesn't offer enough in attack. 

It's either he adapts to the system or we adjust the system.