35 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

My personal favorite was Gary Neville complaining why Tuchel didn’t have anyone man marking Messi.

As if no manager in the last 20 years hasn’t tried that. Messi also scored a hattrick against Neville’s Valencia. Why did he have anyone man marking him?

I thought we did a pretty decent job keeping Messi nullified for the first hour. But once Argentina upped the attack in response to our goal we had no clue. And for some reason despite having an extra defender we kept leaving him unmarked on his out wide at that point. I think it was Lautaro Martinez who said that first hour England were making it difficult for them with the continual press and he felt England players just got exhausted. But if that was the case bring on subs so you can continue that approach through 90 mins.

I would love to know what Tuchel had planned for extra time if England had got there. Presumably we were playing for penalties? So rubbish.

42 minutes ago, forbzy said:

I thought we did a pretty decent job keeping Messi nullified for the first hour. But once Argentina upped the attack in response to our goal we had no clue. And for some reason despite having an extra defender we kept leaving him unmarked on his out wide at that point. I think it was Lautaro Martinez who said that first hour England were making it difficult for them with the continual press and he felt England players just got exhausted. But if that was the case bring on subs so you can continue that approach through 90 mins.

I would love to know what Tuchel had planned for extra time if England had got there. Presumably we were playing for penalties? So rubbish.

Messi seemed to go wide rather than central yet was still a threat with good crosses.

He should have made two subs say Rashford and Watkins with messages to hold a defensive line to stop going too deep.

Last night was definitely on Tuchel. Very disappointing, I really thought the Southgate days were behind us but looks like it’s not.

My biggest hope is that he will have learnt his lesson and go attacking for a second goal from now to on.

We simply must win the euros or at least reach the final and compete well. That’ll put us in good stead for the next World Cup.

Hopefully Cole Palmer will sort himself out, and we get a few more exciting players such as Dowman.

For me, the missing part of the jigsaw for England, in every tournament, is that we always seem to end up with 11 guys on the pitch who look as they're playing together for the first time.

When Argentina changed it up and brought on 3 or 4 subs after they went behind... it was like they'd been playing together all their lives.

That aside, TT let them off the hook... should have changed Kane and Rogers, brought on fresh legs and kept pressing and we might have done it.

1 hour ago, Remodez said:

I am surprised to see so many ex players and ex managers blaming Tuchel for this result. They of all people should know it's not easy to change players mentality once they have already decided to sit back and defend for whatever reason.

Players were all gassed, clear as day to see, so after we scored the players retreated and sat back. This wasn't an instruction from Tuchel evident by the fact that he kept the same system. If he wanted us to defend straight after he would have changed it straight away.

I blame him for keeping Kane on even when he was clearly gone which resulted in us having no out ball but everything else was in response to what the players had already been doing.

I blame the person who said PIckford had to go long at every opprtunity to Kane, who has never ever been a target man, even worse was to bring dan burn on with Tony and play Burn as the centre forward. Tuchel should go straight back to Germany please and not stop in England, unless its for a c0nnecting flight.

See Southgate being appointed England manager again.

30 minutes ago, strider6004 said:

Messi seemed to go wide rather than central yet was still a threat with good crosses.

He should have made two subs say Rashford and Watkins with messages to hold a defensive line to stop going too deep.

Messi went wide on to Spence when he was done, he had cramp and was looked very leggy so Messi moved to attack him, double and tripled up on him. To combat that Tuchel erm....did nowt, not a thing.

Tuchel has regressed as a coach in recent years. He's become way too defensive minded. Remember our Champions League winning run and how he had us set up when we defended? There was always an out ball. Werner, Pulisic, Mount, Havertz, they were always available to take the pressure off the defence, and even a full back would move forward to help. He doesn't do that anymore, he goes too defensive and there is never an out ball.

The only way for TT to redeem himself is by beating France and bringing home a bronze medal 🥉...although he'll probably f**k that up too...🙄

I've always thought we have spent every World Cup since 1966 blaming managers for not even reaching a final, when in fact sometimes we simply weren't good enough or that during those 60 years other national teams were superb ( Brazil, Germany, etc etc) . BUT this defeat is all down to Tuchel, Argentina weren't a threat, Messi looked lost, then TT makes changes, we are camped around our box, no out ball possible, we were under siege, it was just a matter of time wasn't it ?.

Edited 41 minutes ago41 min by The Rising Sun
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He did what Southgate was panned for doing.

Man for man we are better than Argentina… the occasion got to us and we slowly shrunk as we tired and retreated when we should have been playing possession football. If the prem players this season have learnt anything it’s how to have hours of pointless possession but when you actually need to keep it it gets hoofed up field to no one.

9 hours ago, dermott said:

Spence saved a very likely goal with one sensational tackle. Beyond that, he was no better or worse than the other defenders who struggled under non-stop quality presure.

Saka? Being nursed by Arsenal, was never fit enough to start which was known when he was selected. That's the issue. Ditto Rice, running on fumes for Arsenal when selected. And Reece, who was fit, technically speaking, but nursed by Chelsea. Tuchel said Reece's hamstring problem couldn't be foreseen. Blind Freddy says otherwise. Selecting his first choice options, regardless of fitness, was always going to be a problem.

That idiot's comment about Reece's injury ( no one saw that coming ") is nonsense. Tuchel was Chelsea manager when Reece suffered hamstring injuries, everyone could see it coming.

Germany now have Klopp.

Do ze Germans fancy a wee swap?