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Since September

The Best manager in our history - gone.

Our league cup - gone

Chances of another Wembley visit - gone

Our FA cup -gone

Possibilty of winning the title without relying on other results - gone

Our ability to control a game from start to finish - gone

Our belief - gone

Our ability to perform in BIG games - gone

Go on Kenyon - explain the new direction Avi is taking us in, I'd call it backwards wouldn't you.

It's only been 6 month aswell - the next 6 month's dont bear thinking about

Drogba - gone

Lampard - gone?

Steve Clarke?

It's time the Roman and the decision makers at the club had a good look at themselves.................

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Since September

The Best manager in our history - gone.

Our league cup - gone

Chances of another Wembley visit - gone

Our FA cup -gone

Possibilty of winning the title without relying on other results - gone

Our ability to control a game from start to finish - gone

Our belief - gone

Our ability to perform in BIG games - gone

Go on Kenyon - explain the new direction Avi is taking us in, I'd call it backwards wouldn't you.

It's only been 6 month aswell - the next 6 month's dont bear thinking about

Drogba - gone

Lampard - gone?

Steve Clarke?

It's time the Roman and the decision makers at the club had a good look at themselves.................

clap2.gifclap2.gifsmack_head.gifclap2.gif How your post rings true. I feel truly sick this morning.

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Since September

The Best manager in our history - gone.

Our league cup - gone

Chances of another Wembley visit - gone

Our FA cup -gone

Possibilty of winning the title without relying on other results - gone

Our ability to control a game from start to finish - gone

Our belief - gone

Our ability to perform in BIG games - gone

Go on Kenyon - explain the new direction Avi is taking us in, I'd call it backwards wouldn't you.

It's only been 6 month aswell - the next 6 month's dont bear thinking about

Drogba - gone

Lampard - gone?

Steve Clarke?

It's time the Roman and the decision makers at the club had a good look at themselves.................

Next?

Our home record - gone

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come on, were all acting like weve suddenly become relegation fodder. we drew away to spurs who are a much better team than the last several years. and its not as though arsenal are flying at the moment. their in meltdown.

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I find it hard to be positive at the moment. In pretty much all of the big games of his reign Grant has faltered and I don't have much confidence going into the Arsenal game. Tactically he seems inept and we seem to be losing our defensive solidarity, something that was almost guaranteed under Jose.

Saying that, Arsenal are in a bit of a crisis and we can take advantage of it on Sunday. I've gone into games against the the likes of Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool confident but I'm always left dissapointed and deflated.

The games over the past few weeks have led me to conclude that Grant has to go. I was willing to give him a chance but I just cannot see us moving forward with him in charge.

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The backlash after another disappointing result it understandable. But all these "it would never have happened under Jose" are becoming really tiresome.

Move on guys. Jose has long gone - get over it.

The loss in the cup to Barnsley, I'll grant (agh!!!) you. Couldn't see that in a million years under a Mourinho team. But no-one can honestly say that we would not concede four goals if Mourinho was still in charge. The way we started the season under Jose we were pretty poor and things were showing no sign of improving.

Add to that the form of certain players. JT is currently nothing like the JT of a season or so ago. Paulo and Ashley are both a bit up and down. And Maka is getting older and I think we are starting to see errors creeping into his game when the match is played at a frantic pace like the Spurs one. But for many on here it's always black and white. When under Jose, we got spanked by Boro 3-0 and when we had that bad Christmas last season when we drew 2-2 with both Fulham and Reading there were poor goals conceded, but there was no "it's Jose's fault". Of course it wasn't. It was the players and their crap defending.

Yet now everyone is so quick to point the finger at Grant as though it was actually him beaten in the air by Berbatov on countless occasions.

And that kinda brings us on to a related topic. Jose built his team on defence. He was brilliant at that. Helped enormously by having the world's best keeper and Gallas / Carvo / JT at their very peak, but he did have us looking at times impenetrable. But we have moved on and the emphasis is no longer on defence (clearly!!!). I know that doesn't mean that we should start conceding four in a match but sometimes sh*t happens!!!

We were brilliant under Jose to start with - they were great times, but I can recall hundreds of post on this very forum both last season and the beginning of this, moaning about the lack of good football. Would people really rather see that - us take a lead and then sit back week after week, even if we didn't actually go on to win the league ?. I'm sure if it was black and white - entertaining football and nothing in the way of trophies or Jose style football and the premiership, people would opt for the latter. But what about Jose style football and no trophies which could have been a distinct possibility this season or watch an unbelievable game of football like we witnessed last night and a game we will remember for years to come?

I guess we want it all - great football and trophies but they rarely seem to go hand in hand.

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I don't agree with you Nibs on the grounds that Mourinho always used bad form/results to knock the players into shape. Thus losing the PL last season was used as a spur to take the double from Man U. Mourinho was fallible, more than many now seem to remember, but he knew that the psychological aspect of the game is enormous. Did you read Grant's post-match comments? Pathetic - excuses, self-explanation, like someone who gets a bad grade at an exam. After losing the Carling cup, there is no way we should have lost in those circumstances to Tottenham. If Mourinho had stayed this season with his pride at stake, he would have made SURE that we didn't go through the ignominy of losing the lead three times. Sure the players need to be criticised duely, but the wilting quality the team has developed this season was not present for the last three seasons, and surely that is the difference between Mourinho and Grant.

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come on, were all acting like weve suddenly become relegation fodder. we drew away to spurs who are a much better team than the last several years. and its not as though arsenal are flying at the moment. their in meltdown.

Tottenham wasnt flying either but we drew with them so i expect that anything can happen.

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The backlash after another disappointing result it understandable. But all these "it would never have happened under Jose" are becoming really tiresome.

Move on guys. Jose has long gone - get over it.

The loss in the cup to Barnsley, I'll grant (agh!!!) you. Couldn't see that in a million years under a Mourinho team. But no-one can honestly say that we would not concede four goals if Mourinho was still in charge. The way we started the season under Jose we were pretty poor and things were showing no sign of improving.

Add to that the form of certain players. JT is currently nothing like the JT of a season or so ago. Paulo and Ashley are both a bit up and down. And Maka is getting older and I think we are starting to see errors creeping into his game when the match is played at a frantic pace like the Spurs one. But for many on here it's always black and white. When under Jose, we got spanked by Boro 3-0 and when we had that bad Christmas last season when we drew 2-2 with both Fulham and Reading there were poor goals conceded, but there was no "it's Jose's fault". Of course it wasn't. It was the players and their crap defending.

Yet now everyone is so quick to point the finger at Grant as though it was actually him beaten in the air by Berbatov on countless occasions.

And that kinda brings us on to a related topic. Jose built his team on defence. He was brilliant at that. Helped enormously by having the world's best keeper and Gallas / Carvo / JT at their very peak, but he did have us looking at times impenetrable. But we have moved on and the emphasis is no longer on defence (clearly!!!). I know that doesn't mean that we should start conceding four in a match but sometimes sh*t happens!!!

We were brilliant under Jose to start with - they were great times, but I can recall hundreds of post on this very forum both last season and the beginning of this, moaning about the lack of good football. Would people really rather see that - us take a lead and then sit back week after week, even if we didn't actually go on to win the league ?. I'm sure if it was black and white - entertaining football and nothing in the way of trophies or Jose style football and the premiership, people would opt for the latter. But what about Jose style football and no trophies which could have been a distinct possibility this season or watch an unbelievable game of football like we witnessed last night and a game we will remember for years to come?

I guess we want it all - great football and trophies but they rarely seem to go hand in hand.

I understand and agree with a lot of that Nibs however what we have lost since Jose has gone is that winning champions mentality, and that is what is meant by the continual references to his reign. We have lost that aura, (good) teams dont fear us anymore.

I think some at the club thought that was just something that could be replicated easily.

Its not that simple! You have to get the right man to put the belief into the troops and get inside their heads. Being a good player is ok against Derby but against your Berbatovs, Rooneys and Fabregas of this world you need that something extra - top class management.

And they quite simply couldnt not have got it more wrong.

Well i say, they, i guess i mean he.

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The backlash after another disappointing result it understandable. But all these "it would never have happened under Jose" are becoming really tiresome.

Move on guys. Jose has long gone - get over it.

The loss in the cup to Barnsley, I'll grant (agh!!!) you. Couldn't see that in a million years under a Mourinho team. But no-one can honestly say that we would not concede four goals if Mourinho was still in charge. The way we started the season under Jose we were pretty poor and things were showing no sign of improving.

Add to that the form of certain players. JT is currently nothing like the JT of a season or so ago. Paulo and Ashley are both a bit up and down. And Maka is getting older and I think we are starting to see errors creeping into his game when the match is played at a frantic pace like the Spurs one. But for many on here it's always black and white. When under Jose, we got spanked by Boro 3-0 and when we had that bad Christmas last season when we drew 2-2 with both Fulham and Reading there were poor goals conceded, but there was no "it's Jose's fault". Of course it wasn't. It was the players and their crap defending.

Yet now everyone is so quick to point the finger at Grant as though it was actually him beaten in the air by Berbatov on countless occasions.

And that kinda brings us on to a related topic. Jose built his team on defence. He was brilliant at that. Helped enormously by having the world's best keeper and Gallas / Carvo / JT at their very peak, but he did have us looking at times impenetrable. But we have moved on and the emphasis is no longer on defence (clearly!!!). I know that doesn't mean that we should start conceding four in a match but sometimes sh*t happens!!!

We were brilliant under Jose to start with - they were great times, but I can recall hundreds of post on this very forum both last season and the beginning of this, moaning about the lack of good football. Would people really rather see that - us take a lead and then sit back week after week, even if we didn't actually go on to win the league ?. I'm sure if it was black and white - entertaining football and nothing in the way of trophies or Jose style football and the premiership, people would opt for the latter. But what about Jose style football and no trophies which could have been a distinct possibility this season or watch an unbelievable game of football like we witnessed last night and a game we will remember for years to come?

I guess we want it all - great football and trophies but they rarely seem to go hand in hand.

I agree. Grateful to Jose for what he's done but i wouldn't want him back.

I just feel we need to move forward from Mourinho years. He's gone and isn't coming back, and it's not all bad. Grant may be out of his depth but i have seen something in that match that i actually liked: we looked like the team that can create and score goals. Sure we looked strong in the back under JM but only in his first season with Robben and Duff healthy, we looked like an attacking powerhouse.

Some people are so blinded by JM persona and his pedigree they refuse to see that we regressed over the last season or so. Roman may carry the blame for Sheva deal or lack of transfer funds in the previous campaign but no manager in the world had the open chequebook policy Jose enjoyed in his first two seasons.

I wonder if Mourinho's first season were to be this one, facing the league with rejuvenated MU and rebuilt Arsenal, scousers seriously improved from the Houllier days and the likes of Everton,ManCity,Spuds,Pompey,Blackburn etc all capable of holding their own against the top four, and more. Would he still win the league? And if he didn't in his first season,how much time would it take for the slagging off to start? But of couse he would be spared Grant's kind of bashing given his record and the fact that we haven't won the league for fifty years and weren't a bunch of spoiled whinging bar stewards we are now.

I'm not saying this to defend Grant because he obviously made mistakes and has to be held responsible when the team is dropping points. I was just wondering if Mourinho's years of success led many people to believe we're entitled to win trophies every season. Every manager needs time and patience.

Let's say Grant is gone in the summer and we bring a big name instead. Would those of you calling for Grant's head do the same if we win nothing next season?

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How soon we forget.

I still think we are entitled to say use the phrase 'it wouldn't have happened under Jose' because it's so true! I could bang on about it for hours, but the main points are that Jose instilled in the team a mentality and application that no-one else could have managed. He introduce training methods, preparation and tactics that netted RESULTS - that means trophies. We may win a cup playing the way we did last night - open attacking football for 90 minutes, but that sort of football doesn't win you leagues, doesn't lend itself to consistent results. The players are scratching their heads today wondering how they didn't win last night, and I can tell them why. Firstly Jose introduced the idea that we 'rest on the ball' - keep possession to enable our players to take a breather. Last night, it didn't happen and by the games end we were knackered. The other thing Jose introduced was an ability to close the game down, make the opposition chase the game, get them where it hurts the most - their heads. At no time last night did our play look commanding, comfortable, untouchable. It was full-on for the whole match, like two boxers slugging it out in the ring for 15 rounds toe-to-toe. This would never have happened under Jose - well would it?

I said in September we would win nothing AND our home record would go. I still think Liverpoo have more chance of catching us than we have of catching Manyoo. Fourth this season, with the players we have and the resources we have - a joke! It's taken Grunt 6 months to undo the work Jose created - after the next two months I defy anyone to even have a shred of credibility if they want the man to stay. Give him another year and we will be below the likes of Villa, Pompey and even Spuds - think about that for 10 minutes!

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those having constant digs at jose's record seem to have bought the myth we always played sh*te football...yes i remember some very dull games under jose (which we still won), they still go on under grant by the way, but I also remember many more great performances and regular convincing wins against the big sides...someone questioned whether jose would be able to win the league this season if it was his first...utd are only five poiints ahead and are basically a one-man team...we're this close despite grant and the upheaval by jose'e departure...i'm sure he would have done it...chelsea won the league so well for two seasons becauise we were the best by a mile under jose, all this talk that man u, arse, liversum weren't so good is bollox...

last season we were close to making it a hat-trick despite a number of injuries...were still on course for the quad in may and ended up with two trophies...the day we drew at home to bolton and utd came back from behind to beat everton was the clincher, but I saw our 10 men play at arsenal with more pride than 11 have ever shown under grant...

people question why the likes of me keep going on about jose...it's because every time grant makes a sub, picks the team, gives a press conference, talks about the game, loses a big match, I am reminded of what we lost...I know he will never be back, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't look for someone as good as him in the summer...we're supposed to be a top club, let's get a top manager.

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.....but I saw our 10 men play at arsenal with more pride than 11 have ever shown under grant....

I think that is the main thing. Grant is a good manager but i cant see us under his management giving arsenal or another big team a very bloody nose with 10 men.

Overall i think he is a good manager. Unfortunately a good manager will not win you the league. For that a top class manager is required. Grant unfortunately for Chelsea FC does not appear to be this.

Still to paraphrase Keegan "They've still got to come to Stamford Bridge and get something and i'll tell you, honestly i will LOVE it if we beat them, LOVE IT".

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The backlash after another disappointing result it understandable. But all these "it would never have happened under Jose" are becoming really tiresome.

Move on guys. Jose has long gone - get over it.

The loss in the cup to Barnsley, I'll grant (agh!!!) you. Couldn't see that in a million years under a Mourinho team. But no-one can honestly say that we would not concede four goals if Mourinho was still in charge. The way we started the season under Jose we were pretty poor and things were showing no sign of improving.

Add to that the form of certain players. JT is currently nothing like the JT of a season or so ago. Paulo and Ashley are both a bit up and down. And Maka is getting older and I think we are starting to see errors creeping into his game when the match is played at a frantic pace like the Spurs one. But for many on here it's always black and white. When under Jose, we got spanked by Boro 3-0 and when we had that bad Christmas last season when we drew 2-2 with both Fulham and Reading there were poor goals conceded, but there was no "it's Jose's fault". Of course it wasn't. It was the players and their crap defending.

Yet now everyone is so quick to point the finger at Grant as though it was actually him beaten in the air by Berbatov on countless occasions.

And that kinda brings us on to a related topic. Jose built his team on defence. He was brilliant at that. Helped enormously by having the world's best keeper and Gallas / Carvo / JT at their very peak, but he did have us looking at times impenetrable. But we have moved on and the emphasis is no longer on defence (clearly!!!). I know that doesn't mean that we should start conceding four in a match but sometimes sh*t happens!!!

We were brilliant under Jose to start with - they were great times, but I can recall hundreds of post on this very forum both last season and the beginning of this, moaning about the lack of good football. Would people really rather see that - us take a lead and then sit back week after week, even if we didn't actually go on to win the league ?. I'm sure if it was black and white - entertaining football and nothing in the way of trophies or Jose style football and the premiership, people would opt for the latter. But what about Jose style football and no trophies which could have been a distinct possibility this season or watch an unbelievable game of football like we witnessed last night and a game we will remember for years to come?

I guess we want it all - great football and trophies but they rarely seem to go hand in hand.

Possibly the best and most well thought out post on this or any other subject I have read in my entire life icon_lol.gif

A little perspective in a black and white place happy0034.gif

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