ethicalstrategy

That's the team I'd have gone for. Let's just do it on the pitch now.

This is putting our win in to perspective. Much as it pains me to say it, Liverpool have wiped the floor with Utd.

Well, he's been charged. BBC

Luiz may well be doubtful after coming off with a hamstring tweak. Drogba has to play for me. Question is who misses out, Anelka or Torres. Zhirkov showed enough to deserve a start. The main thing is to show the same drive and determination and desire that we did on Tuesday.

I think all this furore over Luiz is being overdone. He clearly has a bit to learn with his decision making defensively and he likes to put it about but neither the foul on Hernandez or Rooney was particularly nasty. There were no studs up or flying tackles. Hernandez was just a collision, not an elbow and nowhere near his face. Rooney's was an obvious foul and he was fortunate not to get booked for it. But it wasn't a million miles different to Smalling's obstruction of Zhirkov - except the Rooney did a dying swan impression and went down like he'd been shot. Redknapp banging on about how outrageous they were was a joke. It was good to see that Ray thought it very amusing! As for the penalty, it wasn't soft or controversial. Smalling tripped Zhirkov. It wasn't nasty and it wasn't cynical. It was just an attempt to get the ball which got the man instead. Clear penalty.

A lot of talk about us playing 4-4-2. I have to say it looked suspiciously close to a diamond for the most part. Frank was well advanced and both Ramires and Malouda were tucked well in. It worked a bit better than normal because Utd played a more open game than most opponents do. We were still found wanting a bit when it came to picking up runners in midfield in the first half. Not so much of an issue in the second half as Utd played more cautiously, waiting to hit us on the counter.

Luiz. No question. Singlehandly lifted the whole team. Ramires played well second half, but had a mare in the first. He continually let players run off him and if Utd's crossing had been better we would have been out of the match at halftime. Drogba was class when he came on. He should have started. Anelka didn't look too pleased when subbed. Torres seems to have acquired the first touch of Carlton Palmer whenever he sees goal. Great night though and fantastic second half performance.

A few posts relocated to the correct thread. One or two didn't make it. Let's keep on topic please.

Try it. See what happens and let me know. Good luck with that.

Some interesting responses. I'd ask a few questions. Who brought an air gun to training? I believe it was one of the youth players. If so he needs his arse kicking. Why did someone bring an air gun to training? What the hell was Cole doing pointing and firing it at someone, whether he thought it was loaded or not? I know he's not very bright but not pointing a gun at someone is fairly obvious even to the dimmest person. I do have to give Ashley full marks though for originality. How many more ways can he find to make himself look a complete arse? I also think it is an indication of a lack of discipline and management at the club that an incident like this could happen. Cole is a lucky boy. If he worked in a normal job and shot a co-worker while messing around with a gun during work hours he'd be out of the door before he could blink.

I'm amazed that people seem to pin so much hope on a journeyman player like Benayoun. He's barely played for us and couldn't get a start at Liverpool and yet somehow, after being out with a serious injury for most of the season, he is going to come back and be just what we need. It's not going to happen.

So tell me, who is picking up the slack then? Who is providing the goals? Who is creating the chances? Who is making the assists? Of course he is struggling. He has had a long lay off and we are set up completely wrong to get the best out of him. I know Frank can't go on forever, but we are talking about 2 or 3 months until the end of the season. There has been every opportunity for players to step up with Frank having missed so much of the season. I haven't noticed anyone doing it. All I've seen is us struggling. How many goals have Ramires, Zhirkov, Essien and Mikel scored? How many goals have they created? How well have they played even? If we want to overhaul in the summer then fine. Bring in some players who can add goals and creativity. But for now we have to be pragmatic. Torres isn't going to score a hatful of goals unless someone is creating the chances. If we are going to progress in the CL and get ourselves back in to the CL places in the PL we need Frank and Didier to be fit and in form. We should be doing everything we can to make that happen. Trying to shoehorn players in to formations that take away all our width and create congestion in the midfield is a mistake. So come on then, tell me what you would do. If you were the manager who would you play and how would you play?

Your notes were rubbish! Mikel instead of Lampard, bah. Zhirkov instead of Malouda, bah again. Torres instead of Drogba, double bah! Seriously though, it's about the width. If we play with width we will get the best from Frank and will be more dangerous. Last season Frank scored 22 goals, topped the assists chart with 14 and created 100 goal scoring opportunities, again more than anyone else in the PL. That is a huge amount of slack to be taken up by others. For now, we need to do everything we can to get Frank firing again. Never mind trying to accommodate Torres! Play the way to get the best From Frank.

This will be an interesting match. I had forgotten what it was like to go to a home match not really knowing what the outcome was likely to be. I hope that we don't get drawn in to playing 4-4-2. That really isn't the way forward for us. We don't have the personnel for a start. Luiz would be ideal in the holding role. It would allow the full backs to push on more and give us someone who is clearly very comfortable on the ball to get things moving forward. However for this match I'd slot him in alongside JT as I think we need Ivan at right back. I would play the two wider forwards very wide. Chalk on their boots wide. You could see what a difference it makes watching Bayern last night. Robben and Ribery stayed very wide when they didn't have the ball. It created a lot of space in the middle which will work to Frank's advantage. Utd will pack the midfield and look to hassle us. We have to be able to handle that. My starting lineup would be: ---------------------------------------------Cech (28) --Ivanovic (27)------------Luiz (23)---------Terry (30)--------------Cole (30) -------------------------------------------Essien (28) ---------------------Ramires (23)----------------------Lampard (32) Anelka (31)---------------------------------------------------------------Malouda (30) --------------------------------------------Drogba (32) Subs: Turnbull (26), Ferreira (32), Zirkhov (27), MacEachran (17), Mikel (23), Kalou (25), Torres (26) With fewer injuries and a couple of big buys in the transfer window we don't look to be quite such an old side and the bench looks a lot healthier.

When we loan these players out surely we make sure that they are guaranteed playing time and that they play in their proper position. How does it help us if Bruma comes back for next season and he hasn't played any games at centre half. That's a nonsense.

I think it would have to go in the "bad error" category at the very least. It wasn't the easiest of shots as it swerved and bounced in front of him but he made a mess of it nevertheless. You only had to look at his face after to know. Agreed it was a good game. Bayern dominated for most of the match but Inter, or rather Eto'o, had some of the best chances. The young Bayern keeper had an exceptional game. I fancy Bayern to go through as long as Robben stays fit.

I hardly ever agree with him. I just enjoy listening to him. He's a good broadcaster. Of course he's out to get a reaction but that's the fun of it.

Anelka was clear MoTM for me. It makes a big difference to his game when he is facing the opposition and higher up the field. As soon as he drops deep and plays with his back to goal then his biggest strength is nullified. It was a pleasure to watch a match without either being petrified that we were going to bollocks it up or frustrated as hell at how we were playing. However, I do think a reality check is in order. Copenhagen were dire. They offered little or no threat going forward and gave us all the time and space in the world. I'm not convinced that 4-4-2 is the way forward against better teams. Wilkins did a good job of illustrating that post match last night. It wasn't much of a 4-4-2 anyway. Both Ramires and Malouda to a lesser extent tucked in very tight. If was more of a 4-2-1-1-1-1. The key thing was that we had time on the ball and the infield area from the centre circle to the edge of the Copenhagen box was not over crowded. That gave Lampard, in particular, more space to play his game. He was still guilty of a couple of loose passes that could have been costly but in general he was able to get on the ball more and he played some very nice passes in and around the box to both Anelka and Torres. My big worry is that next Tuesday will be business as usual. Utd will harry the pants of us and deny us any space centrally. We have to be able to cope with that and get the ball wide to create some space. If we manage that then I'll be a happy bunny.

I like Mike Parry.

Sorry, but that's just not true. He was one of our better players on Saturday.

Isn't that a bit of a contradiction in terms? Young and established? Personally I'd prefer more of an evolution than a revolution.

Josh is a great talent from what I've seen and in the matches he has played he has done very well. Given the struggles we have endured over the last 4 months I would like to see him involved a lot more than he has been. Personally, I think we need more width which is not something that Josh would give. But if we stick with a more narrow approach then I think josh would add a lot to our game. He has been played almost exclusively in the deep lying holding role which doesn't get the best from him - a bit like Capello playing Wilshere there for England. He ought to be in behind the front two. Having said all that, I do think it is asking way to much to expect him to be the solution to all our problems. He is still only 17 and very inexperienced.

Surely that's all about leadership? It is the responsibility of the manager to get the best out of the players he has. You can argue about the age of the squad, off field distractions, pressure from the fans, from the owner, whatever else. They all make the manager's job more difficult. BUT, I do not believe that we are seeing the best of the players that we have. We are underachieving and have been for a prolonged period of time now. To make matters worse, we aren't even using the opportunity to plan for the future. The brave new world of academy players breaking in to the team isn't happening. It might have been a good idea to assess these players before basing your season on them. It's clear that Ancelotti doesn't think they are ready and he may well be right. In which case he should have stood up and said so at the time, as he ought to have done when Wilkins was ushered out against his will. He is a nice man but he doesn't have the tactical nous or the balls when the going gets rough. Last season was a great one for us, but I'd argue that we ought to have done it a lot more easily than we did in the end. He didn't face too many crises but when he did we invariably were found wanting. They were talking about AC Milan on the Sunday Supplement this week. They described their performance against Spurs as slow and ponderous. That seems to be a fair description of the way we play these days. We are turning into a typical Italian league team. Sure, if a team decides they want to have game of football with us then more likely than not we will give them a spanking, but everyone knows that now. City laid the template back in the autumn and other teams have followed. Defend deep. Pack the midfield. Deny us time and space. Play on the counter and they might get lucky. you'd think that after 4 months the manager might have come up with a plan to get round this. Apparently not. And all the time, the confidence is sapping out of the team and the individual players. It isn't pretty to watch and I don't see how it can be turned around without doing something different. I fear that we will struggle against Copenhagen and end up limping in to 5th spot or worse in the league.

I wish he would take that chance. But it's pretty clear he won't. All bar Josh are now out on loan.

I'm not saying that we don't need to freshen the squad, we do. But I think that the key players you are referring to are still capable of a lot more than we are seeing at the moment. Unfortunately the current manager doesn't seem to be able to get i t out of them. Nor will he try any of the younger players. Not that he has many left to choose from since all bar Josh are now on loan. So we have the worst of all worlds!