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A sad day for at least one fan


Chippy

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Another sad day for me in my 46 years of being a Chelsea fan,

We have had a lot of ups and downs but I don't remember the club ever looking as bad as it does now..to me anyway.

I actually have no answer to the gooners and Mancs that have text me since Scolaris sacking other than to reply "yep I'm ashamed" I realise most on the forum wanted big Felipe out and again I have become just someone to argue with on here which is fine and dandy but to give yet another manager such little respect really fills me with disgust.

There is no talking to the ditractors as there wasn't when it was Grant who was treated so badly, even now they would say Grant done nothing although his record was very good.

What has happened since is we have brought in a man who is a world cup winner and as soon as things go bad they start the old not got the league experience line..

I can;t say there is no truth in that but I would say the man has the wherewithall to get past it and if he was given time, I'm sure he would have proved it.

People read articals on the net or in the media, Artical sensationalised out of all proportion and they take snippets of it and believe it, spreading from fan to fan and gathering pace the rumours of dressing room unrest and motivation problems..the Archaic training methods and the losing of the dressing room all are reasons pointing to why our players can't beat a Hull side that is pretty Dogged and has had very good results against other big teams.

I believe in his reign Scolari got it badly wrong in about five games, most of the games where he was expected to bring someone off the bench and change a game it just wasn't that easy, the bench was (imo) at its best in our last game and he got it wrong a fatal last time.

The players here have a lot to answer for and I hope whoever comes in sits a lot of them on the bench or gets rid of them at his first opportunity.

If a new man comes in and can use these players any better he will be a very good manager and without big changes in personnel I will be surprised if it happens.

The why doesn't he go 4-4-2 argument and one I've wanted him to use myself was ignored by Gtant and Mourinho before him and only one of those got stick for it.

The only good thing I can see coming of this is Scolari was not the right choice in the first place purely down to his age and length of contract and it would be good to see the club sign a manager young enough to see out a decent shift here and give him a 5 year contract to start with.

I will enjoy defending him when things are bad and people are asking why he got a five year contract and enjoy Roman having to add to the fourty million he has had to pay out through sacking the last three managers as every time he throws his toys out the pram, it costs him dearly.

I don't know if Scolari will stay in management but whatever he does I wish him nothing but success, another reputation damaged by the team for some godforsaken reason I love.

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Chippy mate you have stuck to your guns all the way through and you are to be completley commended on that.

However I maintain the club called this one correctly. We were sinking and sinking fast. Who knows we may even be able to salvage something from the season which was turning into a disaster. I'd struggle to list three positives of his reign. The form of lampard, the villa game and then stumped. Try it!

Like you I wish scolari all the best. Unlike you this is the best news of my year so far.

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Chippy mate you have stuck to your guns all the way through and you are to be completley commended on that.

However I maintain the club called this one correctly. We were sinking and sinking fast. Who knows we may even be able to salvage something from the season which was turning into a disaster. I'd struggle to list three positives of his reign. The form of lampard, the villa game and then stumped. Try it!

Like you I wish scolari all the best. Unlike you this is the best news of my year so far.

Mate I read all your posts and respect your opinions, I just don't share many of them.

I am gutted and not because I liked him, not because I thought he was a great manager but because this farce of a club keeps employing people and giving them no time to carry outr their Jobs.

I can name some positives, the fullbacks getting forward well, Ashley Cole, Mikel (until teams learned to put a man tight to him) Anelka..

I think up until the last 5 or 6 weeks the football has been more attractive and I think with the exact style we have been playing, an in form Drogba and a decent winger would have had us creating and putting chances away.

I doubt a new man will make a lot of difference, I thought we'd pull this round and I think a decent new manager might give me the same expectation, decent FA Cup run, get past the Ranieri Hurdle of the CL nad finish top 3 of the prem but that is what I believe we would have done.

I hope the new manager is decent and I say decent because I don't believe a manger has to be great, a good team and a good manager is akll we need to compete as Grant showed.

I think its got a lot to do with the form of the players and more to do with the Mood.

We can't agree but I fully expect us to have the same conversation about the next manager unless a big change of players ensues in the summer..a luxury Scolari didn't have.

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I am with you chippy.

I dont feel as ashamed as I was under Santa Bates at times though, but I dont think we had the coverage we do now with internet and forums to get the stick we deserved back then.

Other than that, I respectfully agree to disagee with fellow forum posters who wanted him to go. I dont think it is the right decision at all, it is purely based on money and results not building.

After tonight I will shut it out best I can and look forward and as a home and away season ticket holder will be behind whoever is bought in.

Hypothetical, but say if under Butch we have 5 stonking wins ? what then ?

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Chippy,

I have nothing but respect for you, and sympathize completely with your sentiments. I had clearly lost the plot the last few weeks, as Scolari's bizarre subs and seeming inability to do anything new and inventive puzzled the hell out of me. Now that the man is actually sacked, I am filled with regret. They handed him half a club and by some miracle he had it top of the league after two months when it had such glaring weaknesses. However, I lost the faith, where as you kept the perspective on the matter.

Last year was an annomoly. A team helmed by Grant came so close to greatness only to fall short. Convinced everyone here that the squad was ship shape and we just needed a man who could coach. I didnt want Grant as coach, but I was shocked they moved him out so quickly. It was a poor decision in retrospect, as well.

The squad wasnt right. The club sold Scolari a lemon and it drove the first quarter mile in great condition and then started to fall apart. So rather than blame the dealership, it was easier to blame the driver. There was only so much the man could do, but he did himself no favors with his player management. He shouldve played the kids unless he was ordered not to. But for losing our best mid, having two old, distracted strikers, and having a joke for a set of wingers, he didnt do all that bad. In the end, I think it was the losses against top sides that killed him.

Today, I am filled with regret. This was a tough decision, but a disgrace is putting it midly, And if the next big news that comes out of the club is that Roman is selling off to some new investment group I will be seriously, seriously mad. The next news should be the sacking of Peter Kenyon, who has lived off the misery of better men for way too long now.

I respect the hell out of you for having such guts though. And I will think of LFS for the personality and humility he brought to this club

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I am with you chippy.

I dont feel as ashamed as I was under Santa Bates at times though, but I dont think we had the coverage we do now with internet and forums to get the stick we deserved back then.

Other than that, I respectfully agree to disagee with fellow forum posters who wanted him to go. I dont think it is the right decision at all, it is purely based on money and results not building.

After tonight I will shut it out best I can and look forward and as a home and away season ticket holder will be behind whoever is bought in.

Hypothetical, but say if under Butch we have 5 stonking wins ? what then ?

Mate I hope we win every game no matter who's in charge and I'll support them but I really hate unfairness and I believe the club treat managers unfairly,

Everyone has different ideas on a forum but I am really surprised how things spread, the change over a few weeks in peoples attitude makes me wonder how much stock they really put on their original feelings...

I would give any manager at least a season let alone a world cup winner who has shown some good things and then had his style found out but not really had a lot of help from players along the way.

Nice to know I'm not the only one Andy.

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I am glad scolari has gone, a mean what`s with the home form ? & can`t even defend a set piece or even beat teams like hull ( no disrepect )

we never had this kind of problem under jose (bring jose back) or avram grant.

as a die hard chelsea fan, i am absolutely shocked at the way things are going this season, it`s not what we / i expect, we should be at least 2nd in the league, level on points with man poo.

but we find our selves in 4th place, a mean 4th freaking place WTF ?

am sh*tting me pants that we dont qualify for the champions league, it`s easy done the mess he has got us in.

dont even reckon we will beat juventus, gunna struggle at home as allways.

(Avram grant & Gus hiddink are on the short list as a duo)

id be quite happy with that, hiddink is a quality coach & can`t forget avram got us to the champoins league final

i dont like the league position we are in, and the fact we lost our brilliant home record, i expect much much better !!!

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Chippy,

I have nothing but respect for you, and sympathize completely with your sentiments. I had clearly lost the plot the last few weeks, as Scolari's bizarre subs and seeming inability to do anything new and inventive puzzled the hell out of me. Now that the man is actually sacked, I am filled with regret. They handed him half a club and by some miracle he had it top of the league after two months when it had such glaring weaknesses. However, I lost the faith, where as you kept the perspective on the matter.

You certainly did lose the plot mate, one minute I'm answering you with "the man needs time" the next you are saying it to someone else..

Last year was an annomoly. A team helmed by Grant came so close to greatness only to fall short. Convinced everyone here that the squad was ship shape and we just needed a man who could coach. I didnt want Grant as coach, but I was shocked they moved him out so quickly. It was a poor decision in retrospect, as well.

It wasn't so much the poorness of the decision for me (although I feel it was poor) it was the unfairness.

The squad wasnt right. The club sold Scolari a lemon and it drove the first quarter mile in great condition and then started to fall apart. So rather than blame the dealership, it was easier to blame the driver. There was only so much the man could do, but he did himself no favors with his player management. He shouldve played the kids unless he was ordered not to. But for losing our best mid, having two old, distracted strikers, and having a joke for a set of wingers, he didnt do all that bad. In the end, I think it was the losses against top sides that killed him.

I still think he is a better judge of the kids readyness than you or I, he might have been sacked but he's earned millions from his knowledge.

Today, I am filled with regret. This was a tough decision, but a disgrace is putting it midly, And if the next big news that comes out of the club is that Roman is selling off to some new investment group I will be seriously, seriously mad. The next news should be the sacking of Peter Kenyon, who has lived off the misery of better men for way too long now.

I don't blame kenyon, I blame Roman..he's got his toy and if it's not as good as someone elses toy he thinks he can buy and sell people until it is, it takes more than 6 months to build a team or shape a team to a new style.

I respect the hell out of you for having such guts though. And I will think of LFS for the personality and humility he brought to this club

Thanks but it is not guts its just a decency thing, If I knew you and a mate of mine employed you and sacked you in the same way, I'd be just as upset and I'd make it known.

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Mate I read all your posts and respect your opinions, I just don't share many of them.

Its cool Chippy. Its a public forum after all! I read all your posts too , a lot of the time they are refreshing. Like i said i have nothing but respect for how you have fought Scolaris corner from Day One.

Who knows we may even agree on the next manager!

Anyway heres to looking forward to moving on as Chelsea fans...

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Its cool Chippy. Its a public forum after all! I read all your posts too , a lot of the time they are refreshing. Like i said i have nothing but respect for how you have fought Scolaris corner from Day One.

Who knows we may even agree on the next manager!

Anyway heres to looking forward to moving on as Chelsea fans...

Amen to the last part.

I'll be behind him whoever it is but I already have a feeling my worst scenario is your best bet...am I wrong?

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Amen to the last part.

I'll be behind him whoever it is but I already have a feeling my worst scenario is your best bet...am I wrong?

I doubt it - i havent made up my mind who i want yet.

I just want people to stop looking to the past (Jose) and stop thinking we have a divine right to certain people (Zola).

Not sure who we will end up with i just know its going to be a step forward whoever it is. But , hey lets not start...!

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Chippy

Surely your sadness is diluted by the knowledge of the joy it has brought the rest of us :D

Seriously though you are fully aware that today's news is news I welcome with open arms. I was in your corner about the way people treated Grant and, like you, thought he should have been given at least another season (as I did Ranieri) however I am a firm believer in treating each scenario on its merits.

In Grant I saw good and bad things, but most importantly I saw someone who I personally thought (and I know lots won't agree) was noting his mistakes, learning from them and tweaking things here and there to try and turn things round and start putting results together.

In Scolari I saw none of these things. In him I saw someone who was either hell bent on proving his way would work or just didn't actually know any other way of doing it. I saw nothing that suggested to me that he had a clue how to turn things round and due to that I was of the opinion that the sooner he went the sooner we could bring in someone who could at least try to do things differently.

I don't bear him any ill feeling, I won't go down the route of calling him names. I am totally sure he tried his best and that is all you can ask from someone. It just so happens that his best, in my opinion, is not good enough at the top of the Premiership and maybe not in domestic football full stop.

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Thanks but it is not guts its just a decency thing, If I knew you and a mate of mine employed you and sacked you in the same way, I'd be just as upset and I'd make it known.

well, you have every right to be mad then.

We will just have to disagree about playing the kids. Didnt play them all season, brings them in against Stoke and they help change the game, and we havent seen them since. We are crying out for pace, energy and passion among the players and in an 8 minute spell a few weeks ago, we got that. I dont know why they havent been handed a chance since then, but thats the call he made or someone made on his behalf.

I think Roman at the moment is sitting on a financial powder keg and has seen a reversal of his fortunes. If we did the same as LUFC, I think it wouldve been a mess from which he and we might not have recovered. As it is, we need to get back in the CL next year, and continue on in this "plan" that I am told people at the club have. In the short term, if a managerial swtich accomplishes this, then so be it, but some of the playerts on this roster have sold that man up the river, and should be the first ones out the door in June

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I supported Chippy on the Grant issue not because imo he was the right man to take us forward but because for various reason he was never judged fairly.

With Scolari, it's different. I believe ever since we lost to Scousers at home in October we've been on a continuous down slide and there were no signs of improvement. You could feel the desperation in almost every match. The confidence - gone, spirit - gone, tactical organization - gone. The players look lost and completely out of ideas on the pitch. We seemed to have played every team exactly the same way, be that ManUnited or Stoke, home match or away fixture. Scolari has lost the plot, that is if he ever had one.

I can sympathize with lack of transfer funds but I can't justify the majority of performances and results. This team has still one of the best squads in Europe and we looked like a struggling midtable club over the last few months. HE HAD TO GO.

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Chippy

Surely your sadness is diluted by the knowledge of the joy it has brought the rest of us ;)

Seriously though you are fully aware that today's news is news I welcome with open arms. I was in your corner about the way people treated Grant and, like you, thought he should have been given at least another season (as I did Ranieri) however I am a firm believer in treating each scenario on its merits.

In Grant I saw good and bad things, but most importantly I saw someone who I personally thought (and I know lots won't agree) was noting his mistakes, learning from them and tweaking things here and there to try and turn things round and start putting results together.

In Scolari I saw none of these things. In him I saw someone who was either hell bent on proving his way would work or just didn't actually know any other way of doing it. I saw nothing that suggested to me that he had a clue how to turn things round and due to that I was of the opinion that the sooner he went the sooner we could bring in someone who could at least try to do things differently.

I don't bear him any ill feeling, I won't go down the route of calling him names. I am totally sure he tried his best and that is all you can ask from someone. It just so happens that his best, in my opinion, is not good enough at the top of the Premiership and maybe not in domestic football full stop.

I'm fully aware of your feelings mate although I again don't agree,

I can totally agree about Grant although I think he tried his own way which bore some fruit and when it went wrong he used the Mourinho way and very well.

I liked him, he deserved much better treatment from fans and management, I'd welcome him back.

Scolari as you say has failed to learn by his and the teams mistakes but I feel the team has been at fault like it was in the cup final against spurs that Grant gets stick for to this day, they have not performed how they are capable and it has not always been down to tactics or substitutions which he has not always had a great choice of.

we have argued this many times and we both will always stick to our beliefs but the worst thing for me is the way any manager is expected to do something with anty team in six months, I know it appeared to go backwards but that is often the way before something takes off in the other direction.

I think he would have pulled it round and I think he should have been given money to help him do it.

At least we can stop arguing and I can stop defending until the next man has a few Draws...heaven forbid ;)

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I feel for Scolari that luck hasn't been on his and Chelsea's side since he took over. We had an awful offside decision cost us the game against Arsenal. That ridiculous sent off against Liverpool. The handball from Hull that would have been punished anywhere else in the world but at the Bridge. They say over a season those decisions even out, thats f** cr@p , if I was Scolari today.

I do have sympathy for the man, there was nothing he could have done when Lampard was sent off, or JT missed that sitter a yard out from goal on Saturday. However, having him here will only drag us deeper into the mud. At least a change at the helm will bring a kick in the backside for the players.

It ain't that bad Big Phil, you get a big payout, and another international job around the corner when you are ready.

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Trouble is it is all hypothetical because he has gone and we could never be proved right ;-)

There is no doubting we are not playing well and Jose had more of a winning at all costs mentality. But it is truely farcical to get rid of a world cup winning manager so quickly...

Lets not split hairs, who are the top two managers in the world ? .. argubly Fergie and Jose, certianly in premiership terms anyway.

Say if Jose came back and his first 36 games where bad.. do we sack him.

Say if Fergie came in (god forbid) ... sack him if he dont get us in the Champoins league next season

Where does it end, it is a rediculous policy.

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Final word (hopefully) on Grant - none of us know how much of the actual management was down to him, how much down to Clarkey. IF it was him who was mainly responsible for getting us to the Champions League final, then yes probably was hard done by. If on the other hand, his main function was as a front man because and it was Clarkey and whoever else doing most of the actual running of the team, then fair enough, he came out of it with a fair few quid in his back pocket.

I think you know my opinions on Scolari. The way things were going, I couldn't ever see him turning things round. My feeling is that he has one way of playing and if the players don't fit that way, then he's lost. With Brazil he had world class superstars, special players like Ronaldo and Ronaldinho; with Portugal he had Figo among others. A good manager adapts his tactics to suit the players he has available, which is something that Scolari seemed increasingly incapable of doing. It's as if he was saying I want you (Malouda) to play like Ronaldinho did for me with Brazil, Drogba can be Ronaldo, and then Anelka can have his go out on the wing, being - whoever was out on the wing for him with Brazil.

To my way of thinking, appointing Scolari was a massive mistake. Recent results against three of the worst teams in the league - struggling to beat a piss-poor Boro and not much better Stoke side, failure to beat a Hull City in free fall, together with the way we lost at both Old Trafford and Anfield, all were just further nails in Scolari's managerial coffin. When we lost at home to the Arse, they were also going through a bad patch, looking to be there for the taking, and again we threw it away.The number of points dropped at home this season is shocking by any standards, as is the number of games in which we have failed to create more than a handful of and all too often not one single meaningful chance. How many games have you seen when we've gone an entire half without a single shot on target? Answer: too many. Failure on that scale is not acceptable at any level of football.

The mistake wasn't sacking Scolari but appointing him in the first place, expecting him to successfully make a rapid transition from international management to the Premiership. The hope is that the next appointment will be the right appointment. Hopefully a younger, more ambitious manager who can be given time - unlike Scolari who was only ever going to be here for the short term.

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Final word (hopefully) on Grant - none of us know how much of the actual management was down to him, how much down to Clarkey. IF it was him who was mainly responsible for getting us to the Champions League final, then yes probably was hard done by. If on the other hand, his main function was as a front man because and it was Clarkey and whoever else doing most of the actual running of the team, then fair enough, he came out of it with a fair few quid in his back pocket.

I think you know my opinions on Scolari. The way things were going, I couldn't ever see him turning things round. My feeling is that he has one way of playing and if the players don't fit that way, then he's lost. With Brazil he had world class superstars, special players like Ronaldo and Ronaldinho; with Portugal he had Figo among others. A good manager adapts his tactics to suit the players he has available, which is something that Scolari seemed increasingly incapable of doing. It's as if he was saying I want you (Malouda) to play like Ronaldinho did for me with Brazil, Drogba can be Ronaldo, and then Anelka can have his go out on the wing, being - whoever was out on the wing for him with Brazil.

To my way of thinking, appointing Scolari was a massive mistake. Recent results against three of the worst teams in the league - struggling to beat a piss-poor Boro and not much better Stoke side, failure to beat a Hull City in free fall, together with the way we lost at both Old Trafford and Anfield, all were just further nails in Scolari's managerial coffin. When we lost at home to the Arse, they were also going through a bad patch, looking to be there for the taking, and again we threw it away.The number of points dropped at home this season is shocking by any standards, as is the number of games in which we have failed to create more than a handful of and all too often not one single meaningful chance. How many games have you seen when we've gone an entire half without a single shot on target? Answer: too many. Failure on that scale is not acceptable at any level of football.

The mistake wasn't sacking Scolari but appointing him in the first place, expecting him to successfully make a rapid transition from international management to the Premiership. The hope is that the next appointment will be the right appointment. Hopefully a younger, more ambitious manager who can be given time - unlike Scolari who was only ever going to be here for the short term.

I won't bother trying to get a last word on Grant because we both know we have totally different opinions on what he done here,

I wont bother debating the good or bad of Scolari as we have totally different opinions on him as well.

I will agree with the last paragraph though, an absurd appointment and a ridiculous length of contract for a club with an ambition to build something attainable for the future.

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The mistake wasn't sacking Scolari but appointing him in the first place, expecting him to successfully make a rapid transition from international management to the Premiership. The hope is that the next appointment will be the right appointment. Hopefully a younger, more ambitious manager who can be given time - unlike Scolari who was only ever going to be here for the short term.

My thoughts exactly.

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Another sad day for me in my 46 years of being a Chelsea fan,

We have had a lot of ups and downs but I don't remember the club ever looking as bad as it does now..to me anyway.

I actually have no answer to the gooners and Mancs that have text me since Scolaris sacking other than to reply "yep I'm ashamed" I realise most on the forum wanted big Felipe out and again I have become just someone to argue with on here which is fine and dandy but to give yet another manager such little respect really fills me with disgust.

There is no talking to the ditractors as there wasn't when it was Grant who was treated so badly, even now they would say Grant done nothing although his record was very good.

What has happened since is we have brought in a man who is a world cup winner and as soon as things go bad they start the old not got the league experience line..

I can;t say there is no truth in that but I would say the man has the wherewithall to get past it and if he was given time, I'm sure he would have proved it.

People read articals on the net or in the media, Artical sensationalised out of all proportion and they take snippets of it and believe it, spreading from fan to fan and gathering pace the rumours of dressing room unrest and motivation problems..the Archaic training methods and the losing of the dressing room all are reasons pointing to why our players can't beat a Hull side that is pretty Dogged and has had very good results against other big teams.

I believe in his reign Scolari got it badly wrong in about five games, most of the games where he was expected to bring someone off the bench and change a game it just wasn't that easy, the bench was (imo) at its best in our last game and he got it wrong a fatal last time.

The players here have a lot to answer for and I hope whoever comes in sits a lot of them on the bench or gets rid of them at his first opportunity.

If a new man comes in and can use these players any better he will be a very good manager and without big changes in personnel I will be surprised if it happens.

The why doesn't he go 4-4-2 argument and one I've wanted him to use myself was ignored by Gtant and Mourinho before him and only one of those got stick for it.

The only good thing I can see coming of this is Scolari was not the right choice in the first place purely down to his age and length of contract and it would be good to see the club sign a manager young enough to see out a decent shift here and give him a 5 year contract to start with.

I will enjoy defending him when things are bad and people are asking why he got a five year contract and enjoy Roman having to add to the fourty million he has had to pay out through sacking the last three managers as every time he throws his toys out the pram, it costs him dearly.

I don't know if Scolari will stay in management but whatever he does I wish him nothing but success, another reputation damaged by the team for some godforsaken reason I love.

Well said mate was this player and fan power,whats going to happen when the new man comes in and he don't get it right will the fans want him out when will it stop, we the fans and the club have become a laughing stock?

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I can't believe how things have developed: the one time I'm optimistic at the start of the season (remember that great first home match?), it all collapses before you can say "a bottle of chilled Chardonay please, and a basket of strawberries". I really thought with Scolari we had a knowledgeable, not taking any cr*p kind of manager. That shows you how much I know :huh:

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I really thought with Scolari we had a knowledgeable, not taking any cr*p kind of manager. That shows you how much I know :huh:

That's what surprised me too. He didn't show anything like the passion I thought he would. When we weren't playing well, I thought he would be up there shouting and bollocking. But he was more like your favourite old uncle.

Very disappointing.

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I've expounded my thoughts on the subject of Scolari a few times, in great detail over the last few days, so I won't go into it again. But, this decision is the most insane and ill-though-out one possible.

We have sacked a manager without giving any decent backup or even a decent chance to make an impact. We have sacked a manager without ANY realistic chance of getting a suitably qualified replacement and we have established a precedent now that means that whoever comes in (unless we stay with wilkins for the rest of the season) will be at the mercy of the SB boo-boys, or the press, or posters on this and many other forums or a stroppy Drogba or whatever.

For those who wanted Scolari gone, how many games do you give the new bloke? What is an acceptable finish to this season? How many goals do we need to score against newcastle away to make the guy's job safe for another week? Please let me have some idea of a quantifiable measure of an acceptable managerial performance.

And, for the record, any manager who is willing to accept the Chelsea job is, de facto, not qualified to do it as things stand at the moment.

Kev

ps - Chippy - you keep on mate! :huh: :D :actions1:

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