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Scholes is laughably overrated


BumsteadCFC

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Or rather has become laughably overrated.

Dont get me wrong he could pass a football but all this "best midfielder" sh*te that was bandied around in the wake of his retirement is nonsensical.

He was slow, could not beat anyone via dribbling or pace, could not tackle to save his life, perennially booked, was sh*te at tracking back. He scored goals here and there but his goals/game ratio was nothing to write home about (1 in 4-5 games). Only once did he score more than 15+ goals in a season. Did not, to my recollection excel at set pieces (taking free kicks, corners or penalties). England wise I never remember him having a tournament that would compare to Franks in 2004. In fact he took retirement after those Euros. He did, of course score a hattrick in Keegans first game but for the most he did nothing in an England shirt.

For such a limited midfielder the praise that is heaped on him is a joke. He was never in the class of Nedved, Seedorf, even Viera who could all take the game by the scruff of the neck and were great defensively AND in attack whereas Scholes was a one trick pony.

Sorry if anyone disagrees but Im Chelsea through and through and have had enough of nauseating Scholes hype. He was good but nowhere as good as some try to make out.

Thoughts?

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On his day he was good, I'll have to give him that, but I agree that I don't quite see how he's held in such high regard as he is. I've never seen anyone who is either such a poor or reckless tackler, consistently get away with so much.

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Sorry to go against the grain but I do think in his pomp Scholes was one of the best midfielders I have ever seen. His passing at times is as good as any of the other greats, and he as that extra something for Utd which took them from a very good team to a great team. I agree he has been overrated at times, especially when talking about his england career (Lampard ruined that apparently, he was the bestest England player ever before that nasty cockney made him play out of position etc....). But you cant knock how good he was for around 4 or 5 seasons on the bang for the Mancs.

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Sorry to go against the grain but I do think in his pomp Scholes was one of the best midfielders I have ever seen.

Fair enough. I'd say he's one of the best ENGLISH midfielders I've ever seen and he deserves to be remembered as one of football's great talents, but I've seen people say he's in the same class as Zidane, Xavi, etc. That's when I have to disagree. He had a great engine and knew how to kick a ball, but he's more a warrior than an artist in my view. Don't get me wrong, the game needs warriors, but the artists are the ones who make the game memorable for me(and I don't mean artists as in divas or primadonnas). And there have been players who mix the warrior and the artist, like Pavel Nedved. Now there is a midfielder who should be considered up there with the greatest midfielders of all time, but it seems he's been forgotten.

Edited by Maksimov
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Sorry to go against the grain but I do think in his pomp Scholes was one of the best midfielders I have ever seen. His passing at times is as good as any of the other greats, and he as that extra something for Utd which took them from a very good team to a great team. I agree he has been overrated at times, especially when talking about his england career (Lampard ruined that apparently, he was the bestest England player ever before that nasty cockney made him play out of position etc....). But you cant knock how good he was for around 4 or 5 seasons on the bang for the Mancs.

Exactly this.

Bumstead, the complaints you level at Scholes could also be attributed to Xavi, Xabi Alonso, Modric, Pirlo etc... Scholes isn't as good as Xavi is, possibly not as good as Pirlo was at his peak, but he was excellent and one of the best around at the time.

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Sorry to piss on anyones parade whose putting him down as a great English midfielder, he's not even close!

Robson, Hoddle, Charlton, Stiles, GAZZA those guys were great midfielders, he was an average player and as soon as his England place was threatened by a better player he retired!

Nothing but a myth!

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Spiller - except Lampard has never been referred to as the greatest midfielder of his generation by anyone, in fact he is chronically underrated by loads of know nothing prats, England boo boys, called "Fat Frank".

Compare:

Best Ballon d or finish: Lamps - 2nd, Scholes - n/a

Club player of year: Lamps - 3, Scholes - 0.

Fwa footballer of year: Lamps - 1, Scholes 0.

Top scorer at club: Lamps - 3, Scholes 0.

Seasons with 15+ goals: Lamps - 7, Scholes 1.

Lamps holds the Prem record for most goals for a midfielder and most consecutive appearances for an outfield player.

Scholes was a great passer, other than that his game was limited. Lamps is a far better all round player.

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Scholes is one of the most overrated footballers I have ever seen. Good shout Bumstead.

A good player no doubt, but he excelled in a midfield which also included Beckham, Giggs and Keane, at a time when all sides were playing 442. He had his minder in Keane and he was allowed to roam forward, at which he was very good. In Lampard's class? Never.

Once in a while Scholes would get on the end of a cross and score, or he would blast one in from 30 yards and people would say, "Typical Scholes", when in fact, it was anything but typical, it was typical Lampard.

It's worth remembering, Scholes underperformed for England, went a long time without scoring, and came in for loads of criticism, everyone wanting him out. Sven introduced Lamps and put Scholes out on the left. Scholes promptly retired, for the simple reason he had been replaced.

During the public clamour for Scholes re-introduction people forgot this and started rewriting history.

It's also worth remembering, Scholes played for the dominant side of his era. Not sure how well he'd have done somewhere else.

I never understood the hype surrounding Scholes and I still don't.

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There is a huge difference between being overrated by some fans and lacking talent.

Scholes was excellent, read the game and was a world class passer. His ability to track back and/or score goals is as irrelevant as his hair color. He was very good at what he did do.

Castiel said it best. He will never be appreciated by all as much as he is by his own fans. Just like Frank, although I think opinions on that front have changed dramatically in the past few seasons.

And like Six Times said, he seemed like a likeable guy, far more than Giggs is now. The first thing he did after penalties in Moscow was go have a quiet word of encouragment with a crestfallen JT, and then go celebrate with his teammates.

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"He's a really nice bloke" thats another strand of the Scholes mystique.

Look, Im not saying he isnt but that hardly puts him in an exclusive category. Plenty of very talented footballers have been decent chaps: Bergkamp, Zola, Beardsley, Messi, Del Piero, John Barnes, Kaka, Nevin all kept their heads down but we arent constantly reminded about what great blokes they are.

The same media that claim Scholes as a saint, demonize JT and Ashley as the antichrist. I dont place much stock in media created reputations.

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The same media that claim Scholes as a saint, demonize JT and Ashley as the antichrist. I dont place much stock in media created reputations.

Sums is it up quite nicely when it comes to the media side of the story. They were putting Giggs on a high morality pedestal too until the his skeletons came out of the closet.

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Personally couldn't stand him, but honestly that was because i was scared he was going run the midfield against us. If players such as Zidane and Vierra have described him as their toughest opponents, he couldn't have been that bad surely lads (blue tinted glasses off for a second or too).

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Thought he was one of the best players I have seen. It is the combination of his reading of the game and his world class passing ability that made him so great. If it was just one or the other he would not be rated as much.

In the modern game probably not as effective since now need more rounded players especially with all the high intensity pressing that Barca seemed to have gotten everybody to do. But in his day with the DM-AM clear split, thought he was one of the best AM around.

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Look at this quotes from Xavi:

"In the last 15 to 20 years the best central midfielder that I have seen — the most complete — is Scholes. I have spoken with Xabi Alonso about this many times. Scholes is a spectacular player who has everything. He can play the final pass, he can score, he is strong, he never gets knocked off the ball and he doesn’t give possession away. If he had been Spanish then maybe he would have been valued more."

And this one from Edgar Davids:

"Every one of us (midfielders) is just trying to become as good as him. Everyone can learn from Paul Scholes".

Now I rate Scholes but it seems weird to have too such esteemed players bum licking him so much. Xavi plays with a far superior player in Iniesta and is better himself. Davids played with better midfielders too. Between about 1995 and 2003, Scholes was top notch. Can't argue with that. But he only retired at the end of last season and he didn't do a great deal between 05 and 11. 15 premier league goals from the 05/06 season to the 10/11 season is a pretty paltry return. Lamps has scored 81 Premier League goals in those same seasons.

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Great post BL.

The thing of it is this. Keane and Scholes played together from 95 to 05 (roughly) and I have heard both referred to as the greatest midfielder (of their era).

If that was true how come they only won 1 Champions League and even then didnt play in the final? Dalglish and Souness won 3 together, Neeskens and Cryff have 3, Rikaard and Gullit have 2, but Scholes and Keane have 1. I thought they were the greatest????

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Great post BL.

The thing of it is this. Keane and Scholes played together from 95 to 05 (roughly) and I have heard both referred to as the greatest midfielder (of their era).

If that was true how come they only won 1 Champions League and even then didnt play in the final? Dalglish and Souness won 3 together, Neeskens and Cryff have 3, Rikaard and Gullit have 2, but Scholes and Keane have 1. I thought they were the greatest????

Yup....and Xavi and Iniesta have 3 Champions League medals....as well as the World Cup and European Championships. If you pointed this out to Xavi himself though.....he'd say it doesn't matter as he is sh*t compared to Scholesy. Ha ha.

Regarding his personality and character which other people have brought into this.......I always find him quite drab. Because he shuns the limelight and drives a modest car and lives in a modest house, people praise him. If anything, I think he should be ridiculed for this. All that money and he lives his life like a suburban mouse. He should give me his money as he clearly doesn't know what he is doing with it. Not saying he should be Michael Barrymore.....just less like Roy Cropper from Coronation Street.

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15 premier league goals from the 05/06 season to the 10/11 season is a pretty paltry return. Lamps has scored 81 Premier League goals in those same seasons.

Yeah, 81 goals. Sounds good but they were all penalties. Or deflections. Or tap-ins. None of them really count.

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It's pretty hard to dispute all these great players getting a hard on over the fella though isn't it.... Tbh I thought Scholes was very strong mentally. Who cares if he didn't have all the skill in the world, he was still very effective at what he did do. He was far more consistent than any other midfielder in the PL for a good while. In his early days I think I remember he wasn't very consistent at all, obv finding his feet. The fact is, the mental aspect obviously has alot to do with success on the pitch, and Scholes had that in abundance, and importantly he was able to maintain it for what seemed like forever. Top player/

Edited by slackhands
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