Jump to content

Ramires in a 4231


Davey Baby

Recommended Posts

I'd rather have him than Dembele and any of the others.

Think he needs to play in the double pivot, in place of Frank.

Frank should no longer be an automatic pick, though he still has an enormous role to perform for us.

Ramires is too good, and central midfield is where he belongs.

Good on the right but we won't get the best of him, and he has an awful lot to offer, we should be utilising that.

Frank has stature at Chelsea, but the manager needs to make the tough calls, Frank is 34 now, and needs to be used more sparingly.

Robbie, you know it makes sense.

Ramires is just too good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


He is better centrally, but I'm not sure with so much responsibility as in our set up atm

I actually think the best I've seen our midfield 2 look was the other day against Newcastle, we were in complete control and it was largely thanks to Raul & Mikel being so comfortable and precise in possession, not to mention both staying pretty deep

It's a bit clichéd to say but out of all our centre mids, Rambo is the least comfortable spraying a ball about, so I dunno how well it'd really work, definitely something to try in the Carling Cup..

(tried to get through that without saying "double-pivot", I'm proud that I managed)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yup, agreed he's best in CM, to me he's our best box-to-box player, and I also agree Frank shouldn't be an automatic pick, Meireles played the role better than he did in the first two, there was a lot more balance on Saturday, Frank's getting on, there's no doubt he's a legend of the club but we're going have to phase him out over the year, because players like Ramires & Merieles are players that can play the role at the same level if not better, and just touching on Meireles; I think we should be keeping him, he matured a lot last year and turned out to be a fantastic signing for 8m, he's a terrific squad player.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Franks passing ability is head and shoulders above the others. That's why he starts. Mary Ellis gives the ball away too often cheaply and mikel, although he offers a lot, is at times too slow on the ball. And as previously mentioned Rambos strong point is not spraying the ball around from deep.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can one surmise from the team we played against Newcastle that Lampard's fitness at this point is somewhat suspect and that RDM prefers Meireles in the more marquis matchups from a defensive aspect? There's been a lot of talk from fans about seeing Ramires in the pivot role but have we seen him there yet? My guess is it is unlikely to happen as even in the smaller cup games that Oscar is likely to see some starting time there to assess his ability as the pivot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would like us to use Ramires in a double pivot. Though it would be useful if a CM can pass well , the fact that either Mata or Hazard or Oscar plays before him and all of them can come deep and get the ball is an advantage for us. Ramires playing in right will cut down the playing time of Oscar , Moses , Sturridge etc., and I do not want to happen.

Also he can dribble and his pace will help him do well in central midfield. We have enough options for playing in wing now. I' m sure if Robbie continues to play Bertrand / Ramires there , the other forward players will feel let down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


I don't think his passing is as bad as people make it out to be, but the players he would be competing with for that deeper CM spot (Lampard, Oscar and Mata) are also the same players who are best suited to taking advantage of Ramires' speed in attack and energy in defense.

If he's going to play in midfield, I'd like to see him adopt a similar role to that which Yaya Toure plays.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No one should be an automatic pick.

Lampard and Ramires cannot play together in that role as neither see defence as their main priority as Mikel or Romeu does. Both Lamps and Ramires will always need someone responsible and more disciplined alongside them in this system. For the time being I'm happy with Lampard's performances and he seems to be developing back into a top class player again. I actually think Lampard suits this system better at the moment as he is a passer and mover, Ramires is more of a runner and counter attacker. Our game is based more on possession this season so Lampard is the more obvious choice at the moment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whilst i have no hope that we will see it, i honestly think that Rambos best position in our current team could be at RB. He is quick enough to keep up with play and to support the attack (as well as get back to defend), can cross, and it is the position on the pitch that gives him most space ahead of him to run into (which for me is his best asset).

Many on here chastise Merieles for giving the ball away cheaply (and rightly so!) ...however Ramires is also guilty of giving the ball awat far to much. He is great when he has space to run into and when the game is stretched, as his running and engine give us a genuine threat, but i feel he suffers when a game is tight and congested.

We have Ivan and Azli, so i am sure RDM has other plans for Rambo, however I think he could be a world class RB.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Ramires has always been a centre mid. It's where he plays best, running at players and creating tons of space for others to run into. It's no surprise that since he went out wide we have found it hard to create from the centre, what Ramires lacks in passing (I don't think it's that bad myself to be perfectly honest, it's good enough to make things happen) he makes up for in movement, pace and dribbling. Yaya Toure is hardly the sort of guy to split open a defence with a pass but he doesn't need to, he's quick, strong and his runs create so much space for the likes of Aguero, Tevez, etc.

I don't think he should play together with Lampard though, he's at his best when playing with a destroyer and the closest we have to that is Romeu and Mikel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd rather have him than Dembele and any of the others.

Think he needs to play in the double pivot, in place of Frank.

Frank should no longer be an automatic pick, though he still has an enormous role to perform for us.

Ramires is too good, and central midfield is where he belongs.

Good on the right but we won't get the best of him, and he has an awful lot to offer, we should be utilising that.

Frank has stature at Chelsea, but the manager needs to make the tough calls, Frank is 34 now, and needs to be used more sparingly.

Robbie, you know it makes sense.

Ramires is just too good.

Couldn't agree more Davey. Ramires would be the first name on the team sheet for me and would be playing centrally in all the big games.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We have so many options for the pivot now that I don't see how we can keep them all happy. I think 1 or 2 need to move on. Mikel and meireles were brilliant saturday but up until that game I would say meireles was the one that had to go. Ramires is far to good to be sitting on the bench all season!

Our options are Mikel, lampard, romeu, meireles,essien, ramires.

That is 6 players for just 2 positions which is ridiculous. We need to ship out at least 2 and 1 of them has to be essien I'm afraid. Then I'm torn between romeu and meireles. Romeu is young and has alot of potential but I can't see him getting much playing time which will hamper him. My preferred choice would be sending romeu out on a season long loan but what are the chances of that happening. Like I said meireles impressed me alot saturday so getting rid of him now would be a bit silly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Ramires has always been a centre mid. It's where he plays best, running at players and creating tons of space for others to run into. It's no surprise that since he went out wide we have found it hard to create from the centre, what Ramires lacks in passing (I don't think it's that bad myself to be perfectly honest, it's good enough to make things happen) he makes up for in movement, pace and dribbling. Yaya Toure is hardly the sort of guy to split open a defence with a pass but he doesn't need to, he's quick, strong and his runs create so much space for the likes of Aguero, Tevez, etc.

I don't think he should play together with Lampard though, he's at his best when playing with a destroyer and the closest we have to that is Romeu and Mikel.

Have you watched Yaya Toure play or are you just thinking of a stereotype and running with it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the 'problem' with ramires is that he's decent at everything and outstanding at nothing (well aside from his stamina and speed).

he's a great player to have but I think to play in midfield in this system you need to be an ultra reliable passer and have a consistent first touch. the positions in the spine of the side are all about consistency. you need your teammates to know what type of passes you can receive, where you will be positioned, the runs you'll make etc. the less consistent and / or more intuitive and unpredictable players go around the spine.

what he does best is carry the ball forward at speed through midfield. that is what yaya toure is also good at. the difference is toure is more reliable with his passing and a little more disciplined. in a 3 man midfield you absolutely put ramires in because there are 2 more players to provide the reliable base around which the rest of the team plays.

in a 4231 I think robbie is doing the right thing by putting him on the right: he offers a bit of extra defensive solidity, protection to his fullback etc. but he can still pop up in the middle and do what he's best at as well as going out wide to offer width. it's a compromise but he has the versatility to give us something there.

p.s.

if ancelotti was given this squad he'd play an xmas tree with lamps mikel and ramires in midfield with mata and hazard in free roles behind the striker. I think that is the best arrangement of our best 11 players, but I don't think robbie is inclined to try it. but that is the only system that puts our 11 best players in their preferred positions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you watched Yaya Toure play or are you just thinking of a stereotype and running with it?

Is that because I said he doesn't split defences with his passing or...? And I don't know what stereotype you are referring to so that would be a no.

If it the passing comment then let's not get carried away, he's a good passer, reliable and composed with the ball and uses his strength to hold off players which gives him a bit more time but he's hardly an Alonso type passer which is what I was getting at.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The player I would compare Ramires to would be Bryan Robson. He is not quite on a par with Robson just yet but he has similar stamina, plays box to box and is an excellent ball winner. Plus, like Robbo, he pops up with goals. But the thing Ramires can give us more than anything else is tempo. Running forward with the ball from midfield he gives a tempo and drive that draws defenders towards him and opens space for others. IMO, we play with more urgency when he is in the middle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ramires is one of my favourite players in the squad at the moment, and agree he should be first on the team sheet. While I think he should be more in midfield, he's not the player to play alongside a DM, like g3.7 said, his passing isn't quite up to scratch. What he does offer us is an out ball mind, no matter what position, if we need someone to relieve pressure, give it to Ramires and he does a mighty fine Bale (knock and run) impression.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


As many others in this thread, I feel that his driving runs are best from midfield, his vertical runs are something our other players don't offer.

Problem is who to pair him with, but I think that we can play him alongside Oscar against weaker teams where we don't really need a huge amount of defensive cover from the midfield. Based on those performances we can assess whether or not they'd work against bigger teams - Ramires is, after all, pretty good defensively and if him and Oscar can develop an understanding I think we can have a great midfield pairing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

His short passing is poor

His long passing is poor

His tackling is poor

His positioning is poor

His shooting is poor (the chip was an exception)

His ball control is poor

But I somehow think he is a great player and want him to play. He doesn't stop running and he's as fast as any centre mid in the world and I love how much of a threat he is on the counter attack from defending set pieces.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

His short passing is good

His long passing is good

HIs tackling is exceptional

His positioning is good

His shooting is ok

His ball control is ok

Basically he's a quality box to box all-around midfielder who would benefit from slight improvement in his shooting and ball control. Massively underated defensively and offensively.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

His short passing is good

His long passing is good

HIs tackling is exceptional

His positioning is good

His shooting is ok

His ball control is ok

Basically he's a quality box to box all-around midfielder who would benefit from slight improvement in his shooting and ball control. Massively underated defensively and offensively.

Are you serious? His passing is shocking. I may have been harsh on his tackling but he is not exceptional at tackling. His shooting is very poor in my opinion and he should have scored more goals than he has.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Well, this is awkward!

awkward the office GIF

The Shed End Forum relies on revenue to pay for hosting and upgrades. While we try to keep adverts as unobtrusive as possible without pop ups, we need to run ad's to make sure we can stay online and continue to keep the forum up, as over the years costs have become very high.

Could you please allow adverts on this domain by switching it off. Some of the advert banners can actually be closed to avoid interferance of your experience on The Shed End.

Cheers now!

Alright already, It's off!