I'd prefer to see KDB (alongside a defense-minded player) in the pivot over Oscar.

I'd prefer to see KDB (alongside a defense-minded player) in the pivot over Oscar.

De Bruyne is more direct and a better crosser, so if he plays in midfield, we'll end up losing the ball more and missing out the attacking midfield which is where our best players our, whereas Oscar's shorter style I feel would help that. That's why I'm such a big advocate of Oscar playing there.

Would it be worth dropping Oscar deeper next to a DM at the expense of Ramires though? Considering Oscar would offer you quite similar to what Mata is already offering you up the field, would we miss more that engine?

If only there was a way for a central midfielder to score lots of goals...

Which is why I said the Pirlo role, because some are asking for him to be a deep-lying playmaker.

Would it be worth dropping Oscar deeper next to a DM at the expense of Ramires though? Considering Oscar would offer you quite similar to what Mata is already offering you up the field, would we miss more that engine?

 

That's why I previously suggested a 4-3-3, where we can incorporate both Oscar and Ramires.

Would it be worth dropping Oscar deeper next to a DM at the expense of Ramires though? Considering Oscar would offer you quite similar to what Mata is already offering you up the field, would we miss more that engine?

There's two ways to drive a team forward, with running and with passing. Ramires does it with running and Oscar does it with passing. The advantage Oscar has is that he can help keep the ball better than Ramires can, but Ramires offers more defensively than Oscar can. To me it's something that depends on the game and the tactical need of the team at the time.

 

Which is why I said the Pirlo role, because some are asking for him to be a deep-lying playmaker.

 

Well there's a difference between what I'm suggesting Oscar would offer us deeper and what Pirlo does, but as much as anything there's more than one kind of deep-lying playmaker.

Well there's a difference between what I'm suggesting Oscar would offer us deeper and what Pirlo does, but as much as anything there's more than one kind of deep-lying playmaker.

By very definition, a deep-lying anything would play deep, and that's not what we want for Oscar.

Whatever the role of Oscar for Brazil is, that. He is good at tackling, tracking back, positioning on top of his attacking skills.

He'd be perfect for us to be one of the two in the lower midfield role IF he is paired with a true anchor like Mikel or similar. At least in home games...he'd be popping in the box and sliding those low ones for striker. In wing he is wasted IMO. The other role would be the one Mata currently occupies. Mata is miles behind Oscar in terms of defending and tackling.

We are wasting him playing on the right side. We have Moses and Schurrle for that running role. Same as we wasted Mata on the left wing under AVB. Those guys are skilled enough for that simple role as well but lot better in their natural positions.

That's why I previously suggested a 4-3-3, where we can incorporate both Oscar and Ramires.

Indeed, which goes back to my point which sparked this debate, as it would involve putting Mata back on the right wing.

Ramires - new DM

Mata - Oscar - Hazard

-------Lukaku

vs

Oscar - new DM - Ramires

Mata - Lukaku - Hazard

Either way Mata get's shifted back out wide, which is the cause of the whole Oscar related debate.

By very definition, a deep-lying anything would play deep, and that's not what we want for Oscar.

 

how do you suggest we field all of oscar, mata, hazard and de bruyne if we dont move one of them deeper?

By very definition, a deep-lying anything would play deep, and that's not what we want for Oscar.

There are different kinds, Xavi is often described as a deep-lying playmaker and he gets forward, same with Xabi Alonso. Oscar would most likely be further forward than these as he has more pace to get back, but deep-lying playmaker much like all of these footballing terms is not perfectly or even strictly defined. Look at the term 'pivot' and how that's used around these parts, it comes from double pivot meaning that both go forward at separate times and cover for the other... this doesn't happen in most midfields where people here apply that term.

how do you suggest we field all of oscar, mata, hazard and de bruyne if we dont move one of them deeper?

 

I have no idea. I haven't seen KDB play and besides, I'm no expert in such matters, I just think Oscar is way too effective near the opponent's goal to play deep, though I think he could do a job there.

There are different kinds, Xavi is often described as a deep-lying playmaker and he gets forward, same with Xabi Alonso. Oscar would most likely be further forward than these as he has more pace to get back, but deep-lying playmaker much like all of these footballing terms is not perfectly or even strictly defined. Look at the term 'pivot' and how that's used around these parts, it comes from double pivot meaning that both go forward at separate times and cover for the other... this doesn't happen in most midfields where people here apply that term.

 

I think you're right regarding double pivot. However I regard Xavi and Alonso as deep-lying playmakers. They may occasionally get forward but they hardly pose a goal threat, and besides, they play for teams that enjoy almost all the possession in Spain, so they're likely to be on the front foot. The point for me is that these guys pick the ball up off the defence, and though I think Oscar has the ability to play that role, I don't really want to see him playing it.

I think you're right regarding double pivot. However I regard Xavi and Alonso as deep-lying playmakers. They may occasionally get forward but they hardly pose a goal threat, and besides, they play for teams that enjoy almost all the possession in Spain, so they're likely to be on the front foot. The point for me is that these guys pick the ball up off the defence, and though I think Oscar has the ability to play that role, I don't really want to see him playing it.

I do want to see him play it, but not quite in the same way they play it. He's faster and can be a bit more active around the pitch using his movement and short passing to make things happen. It's not like he's Hazard when it comes to running at players, he makes things happen with clever interplay and passing, which he can very much do from a deeper position. The point is that with him there, we can keep the ball that well too, whereas with Ramires we can't. I guess this is just a personal preference thing.

I do want to see him play it, but not quite in the same way they play it. He's faster and can be a bit more active around the pitch using his movement and short passing to make things happen. It's not like he's Hazard when it comes to running at players, he makes things happen with clever interplay and passing, which he can very much do from a deeper position. The point is that with him there, we can keep the ball that well too, whereas with Ramires we can't. I guess this is just a personal preference thing.

 

If we didn't have Mata we probably wouldn't be having this conversation, as I'm sure we'd all regard Oscar's best position as the free man. Okay we have Mata but I still think it would be regrettable on Oscar's behalf if he were played further away from goal. I've no doubt at all he could be great in midfield but I regard him as an attacker, and I think his instincts should be encouraged, because you can lose them if made to play a game with different responsibilities.

 

Edit: Is this what's happened with Brazil? What position is he playing? Against England, at Wembley, he was quite clearly an attacker, if I remember rightly.

Edited June 16, 201313 yr by Davey Baby

If we didn't have Mata we probably wouldn't be having this conversation, as I'm sure we'd all regard Oscar's best position as the free man. Okay we have Mata but I still think it would be regrettable on Oscar's behalf if he were played further away from goal. I've no doubt at all he could be great in midfield but I regard him as an attacker, and I think his instincts should be encouraged, because you can lose them if made to play a game with different responsibilities.

 

Edit: Is this what's happened with Brazil? What position is he playing? Against England, at Wembley, he was quite clearly an attacker, if I remember rightly.

You see he doesn't tend to stay forward though, it's been discussed above and I have noticed it for Brazil that he tends to drop deeper at certain points in the game so when you say his instincts should be encouraged, it's hard to say what his instincts are exactly. I don't think he's as effective further forward as you do and I don't think we remove that much by having him as one of the central pairing and we as a team gain a hell of a lot.

 

I can't speak to the England vs Brazil game, I was revising for an exam so had to miss it (and obviously all my mates who didn't have that exam got tickets for the bloody game). I just think he'd improve the side so much by playing there that it's worth missing out on the one or two goals he'd score further up and I don't think he'd get too many fewer assists.

I don't think he's as effective further forward as you do and I don't think we remove that much by having him as one of the central pairing and we as a team gain a hell of a lot.

 

Fair enough. This is where we differ. For me, he's a final third player, and that's where he wants to perform, instinctively, even if he sometimes drops deeper into space, and this is where his gifts are best utilised. Modric has played deep but let's imagine the Modric that plays more attacking, is that what you're describing, maybe with a bit more energy? Hmm, not for me, though he could do the job. Sure, you can be threatening offensively as a midfielder, we all know that, but there's a world of difference between being an attacker and a midfielder, and I would encourage Oscar to follow his instincts, as I see them. Those instincts are to be cherished and handled carefully.

Fair enough. This is where we differ. For me, he's a final third player, and that's where he wants to perform, instinctively, even if he sometimes drops deeper into space, and this is where his gifts are best utilised. Modric has played deep but let's imagine the Modric that plays more attacking, is that what you're describing, maybe with a bit more energy? Hmm, not for me, though he could do the job. Sure, you can be threatening offensively as a midfielder, we all know that, but there's a world of difference between being an attacker and a midfielder, and I would encourage Oscar to follow his instincts, as I see them. Those instincts are to be cherished and handled carefully.

There isn't a world of difference, though. He's an attacking midfielder, and I'm suggesting he play as a central midfielder. This isn't like asking him to play in goal or even defence. I disagree with what you say about his instincts as well, if he drops deep instinctively why would that not be what he's instinctively wanting to do? Also, I think you underestimate how much passing is what he's best at and being deeper means he has more space to make those passes through to our attacking band of three. I think he'd add something we're missing by playing there and I don't see what it is in his game you see makes him perfect that much further forward that he couldn't do it deeper.

There isn't a world of difference, though. He's an attacking midfielder, and I'm suggesting he play as a central midfielder. This isn't like asking him to play in goal or even defence. I disagree with what you say about his instincts as well, if he drops deep instinctively why would that not be what he's instinctively wanting to do? Also, I think you underestimate how much passing is what he's best at and being deeper means he has more space to make those passes through to our attacking band of three. I think he'd add something we're missing by playing there and I don't see what it is in his game you see makes him perfect that much further forward that he couldn't do it deeper.

 

I don't regard the attacking band of three as midfielders, Mata, Hazard and Oscar, so for me you're asking an attacker to be a CM, rather than asking an AM to be one. When I say he drops deeper, I mean in the same way Mata does, I certainly don't see him instinctively dropping into midfield, unless he's asked to do a job there. For me, he's a foil for the striker and that's what we'd lose. He needs to be played near the opposition box because that's where he comes into his own, as a creator and a scorer. Remember, he's young and he's skinny, and he hasn't played his ideal position for us, yet his first season in the Prem, coming from a different continent, was pretty damn impressive. I think you're underestimating him as an attacker. Still, because of the attacking talent we have, we may be best served using him deeper as you'd want, because he may well give us something we don't otherwise have there. Whether he'd be best served there is another matter.

Edited June 16, 201313 yr by Davey Baby

My view on this is because we have Mata, who is brilliant in his spot, we could best utilize Oscar in the deeper role. That way we don't have to play him in the wing where he is wasted. Haz is great in the wing although he could also shine in the middle.

Oscar could easily "rule" or "pace" a team's game. That is what he did for Brazil in the u21's. Don't know if you call it deep lying midfielder or CM or box-to-box...

Some nice deep lying stuff is starting on TV. Mexico-Italy. It is De Rossi-Pirlo pairing in the midfield...just love Pirlo. Brilliant player still.

The best thing Oscar has is his spacial awareness and intelligence. When you let him float into spaces you get the best of him.

locking him onto the wing reduces him. Putting him in midfield where he'd be necessarily tethered to the postion would also take something from him.

de bruyne is skilful, direct and athletic. but he doesn't have the same natural appreciation of space Oscar has. To my mind he could grow into a lampard style central midfielder.

oscar needs to be used, nominally, further forward imo.

De Bruyne is more direct and a better crosser, so if he plays in midfield, we'll end up losing the ball more and missing out the attacking midfield which is where our best players our, whereas Oscar's shorter style I feel would help that. That's why I'm such a big advocate of Oscar playing there.

 

I've seen KDB play in center-midfield a few times for Werder Bremen and I gotta say, he's impressed me so much more there than on the wing. His vision and passing ability is superb (better than Oscar's, IMO) and playing him deeper would allow him more space and time on the ball to pick out his pass. One of the main problems I've noticed with Chelsea over the past couple of years is that our build up play is far too slow at times and it gives our opposition all the time in the world to get back to their natural positions, therefore preventing us from attempting a quick counter attack, which then forces us to start passing backwards.

 

We've been missing that edge in midfield for quite a while now and I honestly think that KDB is perfect for that role. Playing him on the wing would limit all his strengths (bar crossing) and it just wouldn't give him the time to do what I feel he does best, which is creating attacks from deep and picking that killer defense splitting pass.

 

IMO, he is very a much a Modric type player and I can easily see him surpassing Modric in the next couple of years. I'm not saying that he is incapable of playing on the wing, but as I said, I just feel like his strengths are exactly what we've been missing in midfield for a long time now.

 

Personally, I'd have him play deeper over Oscar every day of the week. Oscar, while arguably slightly better than KDB defensively, doesn't have the same passing range and vision that KDB can offer us as a deep-lying playmaker.

 

Either way, it's certainly a good problem to have for Mourinho.

WhoScored.com ?@WhoScored12h

Oscar: No player has made more tackles at the Confederations Cup than the Chelsea midfielder (12)

 

 

This guy loves a tackle.

 

WhoScored.com ?@WhoScored12h

Oscar: No player has made more tackles at the Confederations Cup than the Chelsea midfielder (12)

 

 

This guy loves a tackle.

 

Simple stuff we have learned from the tournament, Oscar should be our DM and Mikel should be our number 10. Seems legit.