That episode was total sh*te!!  Lazy story telling and utter bollocks!  Not a happy viewer!!

Thanks! So no one knows yet? Good! That theory would be ideal, this show can only kill so many of my favourite characters before I get too frustrated.

 

No one knows yet, and we'll probably find out before the next book comes out as GRRM is the slowest writer imaginable. Of course, Jon could be dead permanently in any character or form, but it makes absolutely no sense what so ever. Kit Harrington has said on a few interviews that he's not in GoT any more and that was his last scene. We don't know if he's lying to keep the cliffhanger alive or it's in fact true. I don't know how they could bring another actor in to play him so late into the series

That episode was total sh*te!!  Lazy story telling and utter bollocks!  Not a happy viewer!!

 

Yeah, I agree. I feel there's just more questions now.

The pacing was awful. Did we really need to see Cersei's walk for 15 f**king minutes? I mean, her body double has glorious tits, but I would have much rather got some closure on a few of the plots. 

They could have spent more time on the actual battle stannis was in and less on the slut walk.

They could have spent more time on the actual battle stannis was in and less on the slut walk.

 

Yeah, it's one thing rushing the battle, it's another thing altogether not even showing it!

They could have spent more time on the actual battle stannis was in and less on the slut walk.

 

Or more w/ Bronn trying to get a viper

Relevant

Just realised something quite funny...

 

So much stuff has been overlooked due to Jon's/Stannis'/Sansa's "deaths"(?). The Mountain's return, Mrycella's death, Meryn's brutal demise, Dany's capture... So much sh*t happened.

So much stuff has been overlooked due to Jon's/Stannis'/Sansa's "deaths"(?). The Mountain's return, Mrycella's death, Meryn's brutal demise, Dany's capture... So much sh*t happened.

 

Don't forget the Spider

I knew it was too good to be true that it was Lena Headey. Pretty messy CGI with the body double too.

 

Rubbish finale though. They probably should have worked it so that the White Walker guy raising the dead from episode 8 was the final scene.

so will Bronn get himself some Viper ass?

If he does I hope he doesn't kiss her....

No one knows yet, and we'll probably find out before the next book comes out as GRRM is the slowest writer imaginable. Of course, Jon could be dead permanently in any character or form, but it makes absolutely no sense what so ever. Kit Harrington has said on a few interviews that he's not in GoT any more and that was his last scene. We don't know if he's lying to keep the cliffhanger alive or it's in fact true. I don't know how they could bring another actor in to play him so late into the series

Even if the book comes

They could have spent more time on the actual battle stannis was in and less on the slut walk.

The battle was bollocks...Stannis led his charge, was flanked both sides, out numbered by about 10 to 1.... And he was last man standing. Purrrleassse.

If he does I hope he doesn't kiss her....

 

but she liked him - remember she gave him the antidote when she could have killed him - she will look to him as a way out of her life

Last night's final scene hurt more than the death of

Hank

. *Breaking Bad spoiler*

Edited June 16, 201511 yr by RichardCFC

No one knows yet, and we'll probably find out before the next book comes out as GRRM is the slowest writer imaginable. Of course, Jon could be dead permanently in any character or form, but it makes absolutely no sense what so ever. Kit Harrington has said on a few interviews that he's not in GoT any more and that was his last scene. We don't know if he's lying to keep the cliffhanger alive or it's in fact true. I don't know how they could bring another actor in to play him so late into the series

One of the directors said Jon Snow is dead, but that doesn't actually mean he's gone. For him to leave the Night's Watch, his 'watch must end' and there's only one way out. So by saying he's dead, then bringing him back he's free to leave the Night's Watch and do whatever he needs to do.

 

My personal view is that there's no way's he dead because his story isn't completed. Ok Martin kills off a lot of characters but each one has reached the end of their arc. Ned Stark is probably the most shocking one because he fits the traditional 'hero' mould, but even his death made narrative sense because it was his idealism that got him (and Robert) killed. Jon Snow doesn't have that. His death simply wouldn't fit with the themes of the overall story, unless Martin is going on some nihilistic rampage which is unlikely.

 

Simply put, you can't end episode 8 with the stare down with the White King bloke and not have some pay off for it. Without Jon Snow there is no real conflict with the Whitewalkers. 

 

So no, he's not dead.

 

One of the directors said Jon Snow is dead, but that doesn't actually mean he's gone. For him to leave the Night's Watch, his 'watch must end' and there's only one way out. So by saying he's dead, then bringing him back he's free to leave the Night's Watch and do whatever he needs to do.

 

My personal view is that there's no way's he dead because his story isn't completed. Ok Martin kills off a lot of characters but each one has reached the end of their arc. Ned Stark is probably the most shocking one because he fits the traditional 'hero' mould, but even his death made narrative sense because it was his idealism that got him (and Robert) killed. Jon Snow doesn't have that. His death simply wouldn't fit with the themes of the overall story, unless Martin is going on some nihilistic rampage which is unlikely.

 

Simply put, you can't end episode 8 with the stare down with the White King bloke and not have some pay off for it. Without Jon Snow there is no real conflict with the Whitewalkers. 

 

So no, he's not dead.

 

 

Exactly. I think what he means, is that Jon Snow as the person we know him, is dead. Next season, he'll be someone else. AKA. Azoi Azai.

 

Jon Snow is too important a character to be killed off, permanently.

They built that white walker scene up and made out Jon as some kind of saviour, only to get stabbed by his brothers. That would be some f**king awful storytelling, probably akin to Bran waking up and realising he could still walk and he just dreamt the entire thing. 

Edited June 16, 201511 yr by JoeyN

Exactly. I think what he means, is that Jon Snow as the person we know him, is dead. Next season, he'll be someone else. AKA. Azoi Azai.

 

 

See this is where my limited knowledge of the GoT's world has me at a disadvantage.

 

But you don't set up Luke vs Vader and then kill him off. Despite everything, Martin is following very conventional narrative tropes and Jon Snow is a very classical hero. 

 

I actually imagine that by story's end the literal throne will be destroyed, probably by Danaerys and one of her dragons. She doesn't actually want to be ruler, and she'll realise that. Her whole thing is about breaking the wheel, breaking the cycle and she actually doesn't have any motivation to be a ruler. She was born into it, forced into prostitution essentially by her brother and is just doing what she thinks she should but her character really doesn't have any personal motivation. Her whole story has been about breaking chains and she's essentially a captive of her name, or her family's legacy. 

 

And if you think about characters who have died, they're often extremes be it duty (Ned), ambition (Tywin), cowardliness (Renly) etc. whereas the moderate, pragmatic characters like Tyrion, Varys and Jon are probably the most likely to succeed.

 

It's why I think I dislike Danaerys (apart from her name which I've probably spelt wrong) because she hasn't had that moment where she's woken up to her own reality. She's still fulfilling the duties she was raised to think she was supposed to, as queen. She will come to realise that she doesn't want that I think and either sacrifice herself or go off and have a nice family, freeing slaves in the East.

 

But yeah, Jon Snow will probably end up ruling but in a different way having broken the old system with Dany. That's my theory anyway.

 

 

 

 

For all the talk of 'shocking' moments, I don't think there's anything unconventional in any of them to be honest. Martin is still writing a very conventional hero's tale and I don't think any moment has really been that out there which is why what happened in the last episode would be very odd and out of character if it were to be true.

Edited June 16, 201511 yr by Blue Daze

As someone who hasn't read the books, it still seems impossible that Jon Snow is dead. The show has made a huge deal about Melisandre's obsession with Jon Snow with her staring across the courtyard at him with ominous music in the background plus the attempted seduction scene. There would have been little point doing that if he was going to die shortly after.

As someone who hasn't read the books, it still seems impossible that Jon Snow is dead. The show has made a huge deal about Melisandre's obsession with Jon Snow with her staring across the courtyard at him with ominous music in the background plus the attempted seduction scene. There would have been little point doing that if he was going to die shortly after.

 

 

Exactly.

 

Plus she already killed Stannis's daughter and got nothing for it, plus she had those visions of her walking along the battlements of Winterfell. She's nutty but she's rarely wrong or ineffectual. 

 

Martin isn't a bad writer by all accounts and that's literally the only excuse for killing Jon off. Plus you've got the whole mystery of who is mother was. He's got too much 'plot armour'.

 

There’s a part of the prophecy that says “the dragon has three heads,” which could mean Azor Ahai will actually be three people—probably the three dragon riders. So that means Jon Snow, Daenerys Targaryen, and probably Tyrion Lannister will together form the prophesied savior.

Jon and Dany together form a song of ice and fire.

Edited June 16, 201511 yr by Zola

There’s a part of the prophecy that says “the dragon has three heads,” which could mean Azor Ahai will actually be three people—probably the three dragon riders. So that means Jon Snow, Daenerys Targaryen, and probably Tyrion Lannister will together form the prophesied savior.

Jon and Dany together form a song of ice and fire.

 

Jon IS the song of ice and fire. He is the half Stark (Ice), half Targaryan (Fire). This is all really dependant on the R + L = J Theory anyway. At this point, I don't see how it can't be true though

Jon IS the song of ice and fire. He is the half Stark (Ice), half Targaryan (Fire). This is all really dependant on the R + L = J Theory anyway. At this point, I don't see how it can't be true though

Spot on and if that is the case then there's no way he's dead.

 

Thinking about it, the Night's Watch are almost certainly destroyed by the end of the series, maybe even the wall too. If Jon is to unite everyone then there can't be this massive wall there. Not sure how that works in terms of the Whitewalkers but that's now my second guess.

 

Throne destroyed

Wall melted??