We had Ross Turnball for a number of years, that doesnt make him a good player. I know you are going to say "but Mikel plays" well so would have Ross if Cech wasnt starting each week.

If we had a better DM Mikel wouldnt get a sniff.

I bet Mikel will be allowed to leave for free when his contract is up like Kalou did.

Only as of a very small part of this season though, isn't it? He's played every season.... hes been starting almost every week, in every season. Jose is tinkering recently and its obviously not working.

 

you can hardly say he was a first team fixture this season, or last season under rafa, or the season before under avb. he was in and out of the side in carlo's first season as well before we let all the competition leave on free transfers. 

 

jose hasn't really tinkered with mikel's position either. he's just not playing him. 

 

 

Look what happened against West Brom. When he and Mata came on we were much better.

 

Jose (with a bit of luck) wont risk / cock it up next game, and he'll play Mikel from the start.

 

We'll hardly be any worse to watch than we were in the past two games with him playing, will we??

 

yeah...i would rather have him in the team than lamps right now...but that's more an illustration of how weak our options are, rather than a testament to his quality. tbh we have been weak in that area for too long, which is fairly plain to see...& part of the reason why i don't believe that him being in the team or squad is any indication of anything. 

We had Ross Turnball for a number of years, that doesnt make him a good player. I know you are going to say "but Mikel plays" well so would have Ross if Cech wasnt starting each week.

If we had a better DM Mikel wouldnt get a sniff.

I bet Mikel will be allowed to leave for free when his contract is up like Kalou did.

Probably, because he'll be about 31 then. He signed a 5 year deal last december.

Ross Turnbull was woeful, but realistically he had 7 league appearances for us and it wasn't long before he was shipped out. He was 3rd choice behind Hilario also.

you can hardly say he was a first team fixture this season, or last season under rafa, or the season before under avb. he was in and out of the side in carlo's first season as well before we let all the competition leave on free transfers.

jose hasn't really tinkered with mikel's position either. he's just not playing him.

yeah...i would rather have him in the team than lamps right now...but that's more an illustration of how weak our options are, rather than a testament to his quality. tbh we have been weak in that area for too long, which is fairly plain to see...& part of the reason why i don't believe that him being in the team or squad is any indication of anything.

Yes in certain games he doesn't feature... but.....if you look back on all of the very biggest games we have played you will see Mikel has played in virtually all of them.

If that doesn't say something to you then I don't know what else to say.

Edited November 14, 201312 yr by Zola

Yes in certain games he doesn't feature... but.....if you look back on all of the very biggest games we have played you will see Mikel has played in virtually all of them.

If that doesn't say something to you then I don't know hat else to say.

 

under rafa, avb and this season? 

 

you are mistaken. 

The biggest games where we have been successful that should read, cups, leagues, Europe (with the exception of the Europa).

Take a look back in the archives.

Edited November 14, 201312 yr by Zola

Plus Benitez and AVB were hardly models of good management while they were with us.

The biggest games where we have been successful that should read, cups, leagues, Europe (with the exception of the Europa).

Take a look back in the archives.

 

under avb, rafa and this season? 

 

you are most definitely mistaken. perhaps take you own advice. 

 

regardless...i do not believe that him being picked or not proves anything. that is your argument. i'm just pointing out that you are mistaken in the specifics of your own argument. 

Plus Benitez and AVB were hardly models of good management while they were with us.

 

i sense this is going to become quite circular. 

 

"every manager picks him" 

 

"not every manager has picked him"

 

"well...those managers are crap then."

under avb, rafa and this season?

you are most definitely mistaken. perhaps take you own advice.

regardless...i do not believe that him being picked or not proves anything. that is your argument. i'm just pointing out that you are mistaken in the specifics of your own argument.

Where did I say that, are you illiterate?

The biggest games where we have been successful that should read, cups, leagues, Europe (with the exception of the Europa).

Take a look back in the archives.

Edited November 14, 201312 yr by Zola

Where did I say that, are you illiterate?

 

 

that quote was a reply to a post of mine...and look at what you bolded:

 

"you can hardly say he was a first team fixture this season, or last season under rafa, or the season before under avb. he was in and out of the side in carlo's first season as well before we let all the competition leave on free transfers. 

 

jose hasn't really tinkered with mikel's position either. he's just not playing him." 

 

so that's what we were talking about. my post, the part you bolded, the conversation we were having. if you wish to say that rdm considered him a first choice...then fine. he most certainly did. i wouldn't argue with that. but it isn't really what i was saying. 

 

so yeah. illiterate...ditto i guess. 

Umm yes, and I was talking about how our recent honours have Mikel in almost all of those campaigns. That should say something...

But carry on

Umm yes, and I was talking about how our recent honours have Mikel in almost all of those campaigns. That should say something...

But carry on

 

i thought we were talking about managers picking mikel. 

 

cos we were. 

 

Limited in choice? Perhaps so, but we've had 8 years to buy a replacement and not one manager has thought we ought to buy one. You have to ask yourself why this is?

Clearly they all rate him to some degree.

 

 

Players at Chelsea simply don't last if they are of no use. If they are less than the best, they are subs. Mikel has always been in the starting team more often than not.

Your point about transfers is also interesting. We know they seem to happen regardless of the manager....We've always been led to believe that Roman and his men love exciting and highly talented players. If they weren't impressed with Mikel personally, or had been advised against him, I am sure he wouldn't have lasted this long.

I am playing devil's advocate a bit here as I personally don't think Mikel is an absolute world beater...but he clearly is doing something right to have lasted this long.

 

 

Only as of a very small part of this season though, isn't it? He's played every season.... hes been starting almost every week, in every season. Jose is tinkering recently and its obviously not working.

 

 

 

Yes in certain games he doesn't feature... but.....if you look back on all of the very biggest games we have played you will see Mikel has played in virtually all of them.

If that doesn't say something to you then I don't know what else to say.

 

if you wish to talk about honours, i believe we have underachieved in that sense during his time here. i don't blame him for that, but it's worth pointing out imo. 

I think Mikel gets caned far too much, especially when our attacking players aren't doing their job properly.

 

I would suggest that right now there is compelling evidence that the primary reason why our attacking players are not doing their job properley is because the midfield players behind them are not doing their job properley.

I don't think Mikel is the answer long term because i don't think he has enough to his game, but right now he is the best we have so he should be starting more games.

I would suggest that right now there is compelling evidence that the primary reason why our attacking players are not doing their job properley is because the midfield players behind them are not doing their job properley.

That's nonsense mate.

I suppose its mikels fault that:

Hazard doesnt want to run at people when he has the ball? He'd rather run in circles and pass it to someone else.

Mikels fault when Oscar has gone flat

Mikels fault when Ivanovic and Willian boot the ball to and fro to each other because theres noone in the box looking for the ball

And Mikels fault because Mata is on the bench.

Etc?

Seriously, Obi is getting all the grief here and its not about him at all. Our players are looking flaky and unorganised... that's a coaching issue that needs put right.

I suppose its mikels fault that:

Hazard doesnt want to run at people when he has the ball? He'd rather run in circles and pass it to someone else.

Mikels fault when Oscar has gone flat

Mikels fault when Ivanovic and Willian boot the ball to and fro to each other because theres noone in the box looking for the ball

And Mikels fault because Mata is on the bench.

Etc?

Seriously, Obi is getting all the grief here and its not about him at all. Our players are looking flaky and unorganised... that's a coaching issue that needs put right.

 

as a man who takes issue with others' comprehension of the english language, you will perhaps appreciate better than most that the post you are replying to was referring to "the midfield" and not solely mikel. 

 

are you illiterate?

as a man who takes issue with others' comprehension of the english language, you will perhaps appreciate better than most that the post you are replying to was referring to "the midfield" and not solely mikel.

What?

He mentioned attacking players not performing as a result of players behind I.e. defensive mids.

You're a bit of a bore now so I'll just let you be.

What?

He mentioned attacking players not performing as a result of players behind I.e. defensive mids.

 

yes. 

 

"the midfield". 

 

not just mikel. 

 

you went on a rant about how it wasn't solely "mikel's fault" in which you used the words "mikel's fault" 4 times and claimed that "Obi is getting all the grief here". when he wasn't. 

 

imo he is right that our midfield is a problem. it's been a problem for 3 years (possibly longer...but it's noticeably been a weakness for that time period imo). mikel is part of that, but he is not solely to blame, and up until your rant, no-one said he was. 

Having picked out my quote about mikel being caned....he was clearly referring to the defensive midfield role...you know, where Mikel usually is... attacking players encompasses both midfield and strikers.

I wouldnt expect you to understand that though.

Good night

Having picked out my quote about mikel being caned....he was clearly referring to the defensive midfield role...you know, where Mikel usually is... 

 

 

i think he was clearly taking issue with you saying that the problem with the team was that "our attacking players aren't doing their job properly" (which you claimed) and instead saying that they were having a harder time doing their job because the "midfield players (notice the pluralisation) behind them are not doing their job properly". 

 

you know...cos that's what he said. 

 

illiterate. 

That's nonsense mate.

I suppose its mikels fault that:

Hazard doesnt want to run at people when he has the ball? He'd rather run in circles and pass it to someone else.

Mikels fault when Oscar has gone flat

Mikels fault when Ivanovic and Willian boot the ball to and fro to each other because theres noone in the box looking for the ball

And Mikels fault because Mata is on the bench.

Etc?

Seriously, Obi is getting all the grief here and its not about him at all. Our players are looking flaky and unorganised... that's a coaching issue that needs put right.

I said the midfield. Not Mikel. I also said the primary reason, not the sole reason.

If the midfield moved the ball to our forwards quicker they could perform better. Mikel is without any question the worst offender of this but certainly not the only culprit.

Again, the midfield. Not just Mikel. I don't rate him but my intention was never to do a hatchet job on him as your post above implies.

Edited November 15, 201312 yr by bjd

I don't think the ball needs to get forward quicker more than the ball needs to go to players who are ready for it. Yeah we could gung ho pass the ball forward quickly but if the player isn't ready then it comes to nought and the receiver loses the ball pretty quickly.

Edited November 15, 201312 yr by Stim

Misinterpreted bjd, apologies. Mikel must be told to play the cautious pass at our club, as he is a conpletely dofferent player for Nigeria.

Don't know why im defending him so staunchly, just dont like seeeing players made out as scape goats for weak performances.

In the last couple of ganes there was nothong through tje middle... seemes like no 1-2s or through balls. . Bit baffling.

"Mikel only knows how to pass sideways."